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MQA is Vaporware


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Apple has THE best Customer service...they actually speak english as their first language.   That and the first iPhone was what got me to totally abandon Microsoft...without ever looking back.    This MQA thing has backfired so bad you'd think it would really affect PS Audio as well as their credibility is s totally shot forever!  

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4 hours ago, LarryMagoo said:

Apple has THE best Customer service...they actually speak english as their first language.   That and the first iPhone was what got me to totally abandon Microsoft...without ever looking back.    This MQA thing has backfired so bad you'd think it would really affect PS Audio as well as their credibility is s totally shot forever!  

Best CS? Questionable. But IMO they do make some of the best devices on the market, and without a doubt, the best computers.

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4 hours ago, vmartell22 said:

Regarding all the comments about Apple - indeed,  very often I don't like what they do, I don't like what they have turned into and definitely avoided them for  a long time. Up until recently, there was no Apple or Windows at Vic's office - that changed recently though; my kid went to college and I inherited the Mac Book Pro. That was actually the main catalyst to try Roon. But I digress.

 

It's obvious that Apple is no white hat cowboy to the rescue. BUT there are difference between that and the MQA effort.

 

Main is that Apple aims to establish not standards BUT market domination - most of the people I know will use ALAC not  because is being forced, but because Apple's size, market and mind share. They want to use Apple, regardless of disadvantages or doing so, or the advantages of not doing so. 

 

BUT - you can reject it.  Like I said, I did not use Apple. Even with its market dominance, I only started using their products because I wanted to.

 

They don't want the backlash that MQA generated. They also have no need to risk it. I hate it that they removed the audio jack and that everyone is following.   So big they don't care. All that obviously very NOT desirable.

 

The problem with MQA was that is a consumer rights eroding effort through the means of industry adoption. BAD. Then you add all the claims, the lossy issue and so on. In fact, I thought I did not care about MQA until I new of the existence of MQA CDs. That made me go, wow! they are also going after physical media. THEY WANT TO CONTROL EVERYTHING. That will not do.

 

v

There is no equating MQA and Apple. Not even close.

 

I do however, hold a grudge against Apple for being a major force in normalizing lossy digital audio.

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17 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

I don't think so given they've only made just one product that is MQA compatible if I'm not mistaken, that being their network bridge, and Paul McGowan has stated publicly that he has issues with the technology but decided to offer it in the network bridge simply due to customer demand.

 

I'm not advocating for their stance, just pointing out that PS Audio have not been champions of all things MQA, and they've at least had the guts to fully admit that while MQA has serious issues, they decided they had to cave to perceived customer demand.

 

So if we take them at their word, then it's back to the main stream audio press as blame worthy, PS Audio would not likely have seen that customer demand for MQA had there not been proclamations of whole new worlds being birthed in the audio press completely misleading PS Audio's customers.

I wonder how this works Since the DirectStream DACs upsample everything to multiples of DSD...what is the point? Are Tidal "Masters" downsampled to 16/44.1, then up converted to DSD? Seems like that is getting things as far away from the original master as possible.

 

Maybe somebody knows...

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5 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I wonder how this works Since the DirectStream DACs upsample everything to multiples of DSD...what is the point? Are Tidal "Masters" downsampled to 16/44.1, then up converted to DSD? Seems like that is getting things as far away from the original master as possible.

 

Maybe somebody knows...

I think the idea with the bridge is that the MQA processing takes place in the network board before the signal actually goes to the  DAC; that way you get "all the MQA goodness":P without the DAC itself being compromised. AFAIR, PM said he wasn't willing to have MQA altering the basic vision/setup of the DAC, and didn't want them inside all the proprietary aspects of the DAC.

What's the point? Well, what difference does it make? The DAC turns everything into PWM in any case, I think. If you like MQA you'd probably prefer that the MQA sauce is added in before that.....

 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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46 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

A gift from Duncan Rolfe and Peter Veth via mQa developments and reviews Facebook page. As a long time member of the group I appreciate them documenting the failure mQa to be a significant part of the HiFi tier of Tidal Music.  

MQA_List 16th May 2021.xlsx 9.49 MB · 11 downloads

Maybe it's my eyes, maybe it's the Facebook source, but glancing at the spreadsheet was the revelation that Pink Floyd and Pinkie (whom I've never heard of) had recorded classical symphonies (apparently now available in MQA), i.e., row 358 (Pink Floyd: Sibelius: Symphony No. 1, Op. 39), and row 359 (Pinkie: Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4, Op. 36).

 

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22 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

There is no equating MQA and Apple. Not even close.

 

I do however, hold a grudge against Apple for being a major force in normalizing lossy digital audio.

In this instance, I think you need to consider who the target market was for the iTunes music files.  As you know, iTunes was the first mainstream and legitimate seller of music tracks. 

 

With their customers being mostly kids with computer speakers, earbuds or some other LoFi device, and considering the development of the Interweb at the the time - I don't think lossy tracks was a bad decision on the part of Apple.  

 

If you want to kick somebody, have a look at Sirius XM with their abysmal "Is that a new song?" broadcasts.  When I still subscribed, I thought Lou Reed had recorded a new, unheard version of Sweet Jane - it was that bad.  

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While so many here are on the subject of Tidal bashing, in the words of Samuel L. Jackson - "Allow me to retort."

 

I use Roon, as many of us do.  I did tests out the wazoo on what sounded best and why, changing out hardware and computers and digital players and finally settled on Roon - with ROCK on a NUC.  (Thanks Chris, that setup video was very helpful.)

 

Now, with that, Roon became not only the music server, but the heart of my stereo as it pulls tracks from the NUC with an external USB drive and talks to my amplifiers via Ethernet through a switch.

 

Long story short, it's awkward for me to play something other than through Roon without adding hardware and making a lot of changes I'm not prepared to do.

 

And, for anyone who uses Roon, the options for streaming services are Tidal and Qobuz.  Qobuz is not available in Canada, and while I'm not inclined to try and spoof them into giving me an account understand that's now harder to do.

 

Long story short, the way things sit right now, it's Tidal for streaming or nothing for any reasonable sonic quality.  Sure, I can listen to the 1,500 LPs I've recorded and 1,000 or so CDs and not ever stream again or actually give a damn.

 

However, I find it interesting on how too many people here seem to be pre-occupied with whether Tidal is using MQA encoding in whatever form with their streaming service.  

 

I have the......I guess now older HiFi account that supposedly gives me CD quality, and I'm fine with that.  I don't know of any service through Roon that actually promises any better than that, meaning 24/192 true HighRes is something on the distant horizon and something to look forward to. 

 

I get that MQA is a lossy format that doesn't deliver as promised.  I understand that a lot of manufacturers have for one reason or another signed onto providing "MQA ready" gear for those who believe they should have it.  

 

What I don't get is the hysteria that some people here exhibit on this topic.  I mean, at the end of the day, how does this affect you?  It's not like MQA is the Axis and is making plans for military domination of Western Europe.  

 

We're agreed that it doesn't work, isn't much of anything, and will likely die the same death as other "technical innovations" that didn't work out.  I'm not defending Tidal, I've never sat in on a corporate meeting and don't know what their business model is. 

 

What I don't get is why everyone has their guns turned on a little guy who's a bit player in the music streaming world, and has made a decision for whatever reason.  From where I sit, listening to my stereo as I type, nothing sounds better than my local storage. 

 

Streaming music files?  Yeah, Redbook quality, more or less, I'm cool with that.  

 

TL DR  If we're going to fight a war, let's make sure we know who the enemy is.  

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34 minutes ago, StephenJK said:

In this instance, I think you need to consider who the target market was for the iTunes music files.  As you know, iTunes was the first mainstream and legitimate seller of music tracks. 

 

With their customers being mostly kids with computer speakers, earbuds or some other LoFi device, and considering the development of the Interweb at the the time - I don't think lossy tracks was a bad decision on the part of Apple.  

 

If you want to kick somebody, have a look at Sirius XM with their abysmal "Is that a new song?" broadcasts.  When I still subscribed, I thought Lou Reed had recorded a new, unheard version of Sweet Jane - it was that bad.  

I don't blame Apple for initially offering lossy crap for sale.  Storage capacity was limited, and expensive. But they used very deceptive marketing, implying it was "CD Quality"..

 

I know for a fact, Jobs would walk around the Apple campus and tell employees they should throw out their CDs after loading onto their iPods etc, and he would ridicule anyone who disagreed.

 

And I would beg to differ the target market was kids...don't know too many kids back then that could afford 12 bucks an album...which was what they were charging..no, they were targeting anyone with a pulse and a credit card. The iTunes store was originally designed to drive sales of iPods/iPhones.

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17 hours ago, firedog said:

I think the idea with the bridge is that the MQA processing takes place in the network board before the signal actually goes to the  DAC; that way you get "all the MQA goodness":P without the DAC itself being compromised. AFAIR, PM said he wasn't willing to have MQA altering the basic vision/setup of the DAC, and didn't want them inside all the proprietary aspects of the DAC.

What's the point? Well, what difference does it make? The DAC turns everything into PWM in any case, I think. If you like MQA you'd probably prefer that the MQA sauce is added in before that.....

 

Pretty shameful for supposedly an engineering driven company. Pathetic actually Even more pathetic is someone who actually has been bamboozled by MQA to buy a PS Audio Product:

 

"The latest Bridge II card “unfolds” MQA-encoded files. Unfolding is the first decoding step in MQA, converting the file from 48kHz to the file’s original sampling frequency. It is not, however, the full MQA decoding. PS Audio was able to achieve this modification with a firmware change, rather than via a modification of its hardware. After the MQA signal is unfolded, the DirectStream DAC treats it like any other PCM signal: It converts it to DSD, upsamples it to 20X DSD, then downconverts it to 2X DSD,"

 

What a mess.

 

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ps-audio-bridge-ii-plug-in-card-for-directstream-dac

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I don't blame Apple for initially offering lossy crap for sale.  Storage capacity was limited, and expensive. But they used very deceptive marketing, implying it was "CD Quality"..

 

I know for a fact, Jobs would walk around the Apple campus and tell employees they should throw out their CDs after loading onto their iPods etc, and he would ridicule anyone who disagreed.

 

And I would beg to differ the target market was kids...don't know too many kids back then that could afford 12 bucks an album...which was what they were charging..no, they were targeting anyone with a pulse and a credit card. The iTunes store was originally designed to drive sales of iPods/iPhones.

You obviously have personal experience that I don't and so will defer to that.  I've never bought anything on iTunes, but thought the business model was so that kids could buy tracks for a buck a shot.  Thanks for a different viewpoint.

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