MQA is Vaporware

[UkPhil]

11 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Apple Music webpage source code indicates lossless and lossless high resolution. 
 

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/17/apple-music-lossless-logo/?fbclid=IwAR3Gd90za--OpB4Ga1U9qOiACepZ5MBy2yZP1WaQdmAH17IjuAeuNdQBfC0

[Ran]

It's official:

 

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio/

[CG]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

It's official:

 

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio/

 

The really germane quote:  (Footnote 1 says that you probably need an external DAC to play 192k/24 files...)

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Great news for DAC manufacturers. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

The first thing I did was Command + F mQa on that press release. 

[yahooboy]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The first thing I did was Command + F mQa on that press release. 

Luckily nothing was found

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, yahooboy said:

Luckily nothing was found

Yes. Made my day. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Started a separate Apple Music Lossless article / thread, so as to not pollute its Pure PCM with mQa talk :~)

 

 

[Confused]

Apple:

Apple Music will also make its catalog of more than 75 million songs available in Lossless Audio. Apple uses ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) to preserve every single bit of the original audio file. This means Apple Music subscribers will be able to hear the exact same thing that the artists created in the studio.

 

MQA:

Using a unique ‘origami’ folding technique, the information is packaged efficiently to retain all the detail from the studio recording.

[UkPhil]

4 minutes ago, Confused said:

Apple:

Apple Music will also make its catalog of more than 75 million songs available in Lossless Audio. Apple uses ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) to preserve every single bit of the original audio file. This means Apple Music subscribers will be able to hear the exact same thing that the artists created in the studio.

 

MQA:

Using a unique ‘origami’ folding technique, the information is packaged efficiently to retain all the detail from the studio recording.

Well if MQA infects FLAC by stealth there will now always be ALAC for lossless 

[Confused]

10 minutes ago, UkPhil said:

Well if MQA infects FLAC by stealth there will now always be ALAC for lossless 

That's quite a thought.  A new world order where ALAC is the watchword for untainted true lossless audio.

[Cebolla]

19 minutes ago, UkPhil said:

Well if MQA infects FLAC by stealth there will now always be ALAC for lossless 

 

6 minutes ago, Confused said:

That's quite a thought.  A new world order where ALAC is the watchword for untainted true lossless audio.

 

Not really - no lossless PCM container is safe from MQA:

https://davidelias.bandcamp.com/album/david-elias-mqa-track-sampler-any-player-works

Quote

*** IMPORTANT *******************************************************
Be sure to download ONLY Lossless PCM formats (AIF, WAV, ALAC, FLAC) to preserve the MQA encoding -- Do NOT use MP3, or AAC or other Lossy formats as they will lose the MQA encoding benefits.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I have no doubt 2L content on Apple Music will be mQa. The lossless container doesn't matter. 

[KeenObserver]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I have no doubt 2L content on Apple Music will be mQa. The lossless container doesn't matter. 

 

2L has gotten up with fleas.

[Fast and Bulbous]

Well well well... 

 

If this is TLDR, no problem…

 

Have been watching this unfold and comparing it with the known patterns of how successful innovations tend to diffuse and eventually become infrastructure – in a category. For MQA, that category is streaming and replay systems and music distribution. In which there are many players. MQA has been following such a strategy since its early days and doing it quite well. Apart from the inadequate nature and content of the arguments put forward that should really have appealed to, and convinced, the early adopters / visionaries to jump whole heartedly on board. That failed - as witnessed here. We should be the very people that MQA should have convinced so that those who are not sure about the tech and the arguments - the mass market - can get validation to lower their risk of adoption. That failed completely – the arguments were seen through almost immediately and objectively shown to be false. And the technology unnecessary for what it said it did. It’s unique selling proposition simply wasn’t – and isn’t – there. Never was.

 

It seemed quite transparent that the real play by MQA was towards the record labels and hardware manufacturers – consumers were grist to the mill, to be sold on the promise of better sound and reduced storage overhead. Meanwhile the labels were offered increased revenue and control from and over the distribution of their material. With DRM lurking…

At some point the market either shifts or decides the category has matured and it stabilises. The race was to be the winner of the new infrastructure – to become the default tech with its associated licencing and leverage, before the category shifted and it gets carried by the tornado of adoption and then cannot be displaced. Meanwhile, and all the while, MQA builds its revenue stream potentials and the whole thing makes money while everyone sleeps. 

 

Except it hasn’t worked out. 

 

The category just shifted. Big time. Apple, Spotify, Amazon. These are the gorillas while the chimps of Tidal and the like try to gain a permanent foothold. Unless I am very much mistaken the category has just matured and will now deliver high res as standard. There will be no differentiation based on that.  I was with Pono when Apple made their move and acquired the company – Omnifone - that provided their streaming service. Was game over and an indication, a telltale, that Apple were interested in the whole category. The reason for the acquisition was – we believed and was stated – to get access to the numerous patents and staff from Omnifone. Apple (like many Silicon Valley organisations) play this game very well – I was gobsmacked (as they say where I come from) when they did a deal to put an iPod socket in the glove box of BMWs. A brilliant strategic move in several areas. Now we have Apple Carplay as standard in many vehicles. Is a matter of timing and it seems that time is now.

 

All of which signals that MQA’s strategy has not worked. The Gorillas don’t need it and it has no benefit to them. Amazon made that clear when they moved into the space.

 

Is it game over for MQA? I think it more than likely is. Which as far as I am concerned is very good news. The false arguments and rhetoric, exposed so thoroughly here, did not work. Had the tech and the arguments been real then we would have advocated it far and wide. But integrity demands a different response. 

 

Long conversations with Charley Hansen and the good folks at Ayre and with Neil Young were illuminating. Charley brough unparalleled technical insight, Neil brought similar level of insight into the music business and when added to insights into technology adoption cycles (notably the Chasm approach), and strategy built upon the combination of all of them, it threw a very penetrating spotlight into what MQA were doing. It was transparent.

 

As for Roon... 

 

Conversations with them early on confirmed that their core identity is a systems integrator. And they do that better than anyone else. As commented before, the need for such a company / technology is at its peak when things don’t work or play well together. DACs, streaming services, servers, smart speakers, computers, ‘phones, music at different resolutions, radio stations, meta data. As all of those aspects mature they get built into them the mechanisms to work together without the need for complex and expensive systems integration – if the demand is there. And it is. For Apple / Amazon / Spotify to recreate what Roon has is easier for them than for Roon to recreate what they have. My earnest hope is that Roon survives and thrives – I would personally be lost without it. Whether listening to Radio Paradise through a smart speaker bluetoothed to my ‘phone or 24/192 or above through a high end DAC across ethernet, it is just a single user interface and easy. Are they part of the MQA attempt to dominate? I don’t really think so. MQA is just something else to be integrated - a side bet - I suspect.

 

Enough! Game over for MQA? More than likely. Phew!

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

Well Boys & Girls-

 

This should be the death knell for Master Quack Audio. Of course, MQA is a cockroach, it seems to have survived despite providing zero benefit via cash infusions from it's investors, so anything is possible.

 

When and if it dies a miserable death, all of it's enablers should be held accountable. There is no forgive and forget. Screw that.

 

Now let's see how willing Apple is to play nice with integration.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

Bob Stuart must have dropped his morning scone into his coffee when he saw this announcement.

 

Sayonara Muchacho. 😑

[The Computer Audiophile]

52 minutes ago, Fast and Bulbous said:

Had the tech and the arguments been real then we would have advocated it far and wide. But integrity demands a different response. 

 

100%

[LarryMagoo]

58 minutes ago, Fast and Bulbous said:

 

Well well well... 

 

If this is TLDR, no problem…

 

Have been watching this unfold and comparing it with the known patterns of how successful innovations tend to diffuse and eventually become infrastructure – in a category. For MQA, that category is streaming and replay systems and music distribution. In which there are many players. MQA has been following such a strategy since its early days and doing it quite well. Apart from the inadequate nature and content of the arguments put forward that should really have appealed to, and convinced, the early adopters / visionaries to jump whole heartedly on board. That failed - as witnessed here. We should be the very people that MQA should have convinced so that those who are not sure about the tech and the arguments - the mass market - can get validation to lower their risk of adoption. That failed completely – the arguments were seen through almost immediately and objectively shown to be false. And the technology unnecessary for what it said it did. It’s unique selling proposition simply wasn’t – and isn’t – there. Never was.

 

It seemed quite transparent that the real play by MQA was towards the record labels and hardware manufacturers – consumers were grist to the mill, to be sold on the promise of better sound and reduced storage overhead. Meanwhile the labels were offered increased revenue and control from and over the distribution of their material. With DRM lurking…

At some point the market either shifts or decides the category has matured and it stabilises. The race was to be the winner of the new infrastructure – to become the default tech with its associated licencing and leverage, before the category shifted and it gets carried by the tornado of adoption and then cannot be displaced. Meanwhile, and all the while, MQA builds its revenue stream potentials and the whole thing makes money while everyone sleeps. 

 

Except it hasn’t worked out. 

 

The category just shifted. Big time. Apple, Spotify, Amazon. These are the gorillas while the chimps of Tidal and the like try to gain a permanent foothold. Unless I am very much mistaken the category has just matured and will now deliver high res as standard. There will be no differentiation based on that.  I was with Pono when Apple made their move and acquired the company – Omnifone - that provided their streaming service. Was game over and an indication, a telltale, that Apple were interested in the whole category. The reason for the acquisition was – we believed and was stated – to get access to the numerous patents and staff from Omnifone. Apple (like many Silicon Valley organisations) play this game very well – I was gobsmacked (as they say where I come from) when they did a deal to put an iPod socket in the glove box of BMWs. A brilliant strategic move in several areas. Now we have Apple Carplay as standard in many vehicles. Is a matter of timing and it seems that time is now.

 

All of which signals that MQA’s strategy has not worked. The Gorillas don’t need it and it has no benefit to them. Amazon made that clear when they moved into the space.

 

Is it game over for MQA? I think it more than likely is. Which as far as I am concerned is very good news. The false arguments and rhetoric, exposed so thoroughly here, did not work. Had the tech and the arguments been real then we would have advocated it far and wide. But integrity demands a different response. 

 

Long conversations with Charley Hansen and the good folks at Ayre and with Neil Young were illuminating. Charley brough unparalleled technical insight, Neil brought similar level of insight into the music business and when added to insights into technology adoption cycles (notably the Chasm approach), and strategy built upon the combination of all of them, it threw a very penetrating spotlight into what MQA were doing. It was transparent.

 

As for Roon... 

 

Conversations with them early on confirmed that their core identity is a systems integrator. And they do that better than anyone else. As commented before, the need for such a company / technology is at its peak when things don’t work or play well together. DACs, streaming services, servers, smart speakers, computers, ‘phones, music at different resolutions, radio stations, meta data. As all of those aspects mature they get built into them the mechanisms to work together without the need for complex and expensive systems integration – if the demand is there. And it is. For Apple / Amazon / Spotify to recreate what Roon has is easier for them than for Roon to recreate what they have. My earnest hope is that Roon survives and thrives – I would personally be lost without it. Whether listening to Radio Paradise through a smart speaker bluetoothed to my ‘phone or 24/192 or above through a high end DAC across ethernet, it is just a single user interface and easy. Are they part of the MQA attempt to dominate? I don’t really think so. MQA is just something else to be integrated - a side bet - I suspect.

 

Enough! Game over for MQA? More than likely. Phew!

It's so refreshing to read a POSITIVE post here.  This subject has been nothing but bitching and complaining tones.  Your post renews my faith in posters!

 

Look out though....Chris will accuse you of working for Roon if you keep on posting compliments and how much you enjoy their software with all the many benefits !

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, LarryMagoo said:

It's so refreshing to read a POSITIVE post here.  This subject has been nothing but bitching and complaining tones.  Your post renews my faith in posters!

 

Look out though....Chris will accuse you of working for Roon if you keep on posting compliments and how much you enjoy their software with all the many benefits !

I use Roon every day and enjoy it. 

 

[botrytis]

As long as it isn't Engineered for Apple Music. Not crazy about that either.

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, botrytis said:

As long as it isn't Engineered for Apple Music. Not crazy about that either.

Will be interesting to see if they have the Mastered for iTunes or Apple Digital Masters in high resolution. 

[KeenObserver]

I'll wait until they pound the stake through MQA's heart.

[lucretius]

7 hours ago, UkPhil said:

Well if MQA infects FLAC by stealth there will now always be ALAC for lossless 

I'm not using ALAC-- I don't care what Apple uses.  When is Apple going to let you play flac's?

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, lucretius said:

I'm not using ALAC-- I don't care what Apple uses.

 

Why not?