MQA is Vaporware

[Stereo]

21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Still holding on to MQA at this point is no different from politicians who never admit they were wrong. They find ways to twist and turn to justify their previous actions and points of view. Meanwhile, the rest of the world looks on, uncomfortably, as they squirm to answer questions. 
 

Is it really that hard to look at all the evidence now and change one’s mind? Seems pretty straight forward, plus then one gets to be right (for those who have a hard time being wrong).

Yep. If Mr. Atkinson was man enough he would of done it by now and could possibly at least hold a shred of decency to his name. Nothing but his overblown ego to stop him from doing so. He’s had ample time to admit he was wrong. MAN UP OR SHUT UP JOHN!! Would you rather be respected or disrespected after all this time?

 

[Archimago]

31 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Still holding on to MQA at this point is no different from politicians who never admit they were wrong. They find ways to twist and turn to justify their previous actions and points of view. Meanwhile, the rest of the world looks on, uncomfortably, as they squirm to answer questions. 
 

Is it really that hard to look at all the evidence now and change one’s mind? Seems pretty straight forward, plus then one gets to be right (for those who have a hard time being wrong).

 

Yeah, I agree. After all that's been said and done, documented for posterity in fact in this long-running thread, it's not hard at all to be on the "right" side of audiophile history at this point.

 

The future's watching.

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, Archimago said:

 

John,

Since you're here on this thread, let's talk candidly. I appreciate all that you've done for the audiophile community over the decades. You can certainly be proud of many successes you have brought to Stereophile over the years. The measurements and continued focus on objective performance has made the magazine unique certainly in North America and among the magazines I've had access to during my "formative years" as an audiophile.

 

However, I suspect that the the time ahead for you as Technical Editor isn't going to be all that long. Honestly, how many more years are you keen to measure equipment? In fact, the age of most of your "top" writers are certainly up there and human auditory physiology has a universal trajectory. I hope you're well on the way to training the next person you'll be passing this baton on to for the Technical tasks. I'm sure there are many other things one would want to enjoy in retirement...

 

Your legacy however, IMO, is tainted in recent years by MQA. When you wrote the infamous article claiming to have witnessed the "birth of a new world" and comparing MQA with the dawn of consumer digital audio (CD), is this honestly what you expected to happen? Face it. MQA has done a horrendous disservice to the audiophile hobby. It has created a schism between those who feel that "we" care about "fidelity" at a level that can be technically demonstrated and proven (you're the Technical Editor, right?) versus those like Hans B above who offer weak words and admissions of "guessing".

 

I do not expect a reply to this. All I ask is that you think about not what MQA is since evidence is there for all to see, but at a "meta" level what MQA has done to the hobby and what it represents. Yes, I think MQA has opened up a "new world". But it's not the world you wrote about in December 2014. I think it has become a more honest world for audiophiles. MQA unintentionally may have brought audiophiles back into the technical side of the hobby; a side that I trust you are comfortable with.

 

There is an opportunity here to do the right thing IMO. Have a good look at MQA again as the Techical Editor all these years since 2014. Re-evaluate what you think of that "new world" and MQA's place in it. There's no shame in changing opinions. If you think this is necessary/appropriate, certainly many of us here would respect the integrity.

 

 

John has had a standing invitation to visit and explore Arizona Highways. Maybe spend some time on Rt 66 and visit the wild burros in Oatman Arizona. But I don't think he will change his mind.

[KeenObserver]

Let us go back in history. There was an audio engineer who was part of starting a company that was never financially successful during his tenure. The biggest success was selling a concept to Dolby, from which Dolby was able to reap much success. Upon seeing the success that Dolby had reaped from the idea, this audio engineer decided to implement a similar plan. Unfortunately, this plan was 20 years after it would have made sense. A company was formed. It received financing from a financial company underwritten by a South African billionaire who became rich during Apartheid. This wealth was possible in all likelihood because of Apartheid.

The company was populated by staff whose ethical standards were on display at RMAF 2018.

The company made all kinds of grandiose claims and told people not to look behind the curtain. People, being naturally inquisitive, looked behind the curtain and were horrified. Nothing was as described. Careful analysis was undertaken. Alas, nothing was true.

The smoke and mirrors continue to this day. The same misleading statements are repeated over and over. The same publishers publish the same BS over and over.

This horrible tale continues.

[Archimago]

5 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Let us go back in history. There was an audio engineer who was part of starting a company that was never financially successful during his tenure. The biggest success was selling a concept to Dolby, from which Dolby was able to reap much success. Upon seeing the success that Dolby had reaped from the idea, this audio engineer decided to implement a similar plan. Unfortunately, this plan was 20 years after it would have made sense. A company was formed. It received financing from a financial company underwritten by a South African billionaire who became rich during Apartheid. This wealth was possible in all likelihood because of Apartheid.

The company was populated by staff whose ethical standards were on display at RMAF 2018.

The company made all kinds of grandiose claims and told people not to look behind the curtain. People, being naturally inquisitive, looked behind the curtain and were horrified. Nothing was as described. Careful analysis was undertaken. Alas, nothing was true.

The smoke and mirrors continue to this day. The same misleading statements are repeated over and over. The same publishers publish the same BS over and over.

This horrible tale continues.

 

 

Worrisome and unfortunate in all kinds of ways. Prayer might work.

[KeenObserver]

Looking at the future of music, do you want to only have access to MQA?

Do you want MQA to be the ones that decide what you will or will not have?

Do you want the people from RMAF 2018 to be the ones that control the distribution of music?

[KeenObserver]

My God!

Hans has to be an expert beyond reproach! He has SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS behind him!

 

That one on the top is the screen for a proctoscope.

[KeenObserver]

Coffee!

[Stereo]

1 hour ago, KeenObserver said:

Looking at the future of music, do you want to only have access to MQA?

Do you want MQA to be the ones that decide what you will or will not have?

Do you want the people from RMAF 2018 to be the ones that control the distribution of music?

To answer all three of your questions: F@*K NO!!!!!

[lucretius]

4 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

My God!

Hans has to be an expert beyond reproach! He has SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS behind him!

 

That one on the top is the screen for a proctoscope.

 

MQA is giving Hans a PITA.

[KeenObserver]

2 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

MQA is giving Hans a PITA.

Hans was examining MQA.

[FredericV]

9 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

My God!

Hans has to be an expert beyond reproach! He has SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS behind him!

They look like actual tools but used as props to add authority to the video.

Because those tools in real use, would not result in such a clean background settings:

 

When Hans was still writing for Vi-Fi, he had one of the few publications which actually showed measurements.

So he probably has some skills, but he never bothered to look into the technical arguments of the independent MQA researchers - which is a bit contradictory.
 

[GregWormald]

May I suggest that to be taken seriously we need to avoid the same denigrative tactics and exaggeration (lies?) that MQA has used. They are already having to back down from some of their more suspect claims due to the diligence of some "auditors". If that can be kept up they may well have to back down to just being a lossy compression algorithm that may sound better than MP3 .

 

Remember that while "fighting fire with fire" can be tempting, the real professionals mostly use water.

[botrytis]

24 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

May I suggest that to be taken seriously we need to avoid the same denigrative tactics and exaggeration (lies?) that MQA has used. They are already having to back down from some of their more suspect claims due to the diligence of some "auditors". If that can be kept up they may well have to back down to just being a lossy compression algorithm that may sound better than MP3 .

 

Remember that while "fighting fire with fire" can be tempting, the real professionals mostly use water.

 

Actually, MQA didn't they just refocused by saying that the FLAC container is lossless, so the data contained must be lossless - NOT!

[MikeyFresh]

3 hours ago, GregWormald said:

May I suggest that to be taken seriously

Since you've quoted nothing no one knows what you are referring to, but this forum has most certainly already been "taken seriously", despite the MQA cadre's attempts at dismissal by sheer authority or more specifically by self importance.

 

 

[KeenObserver]

4 hours ago, GregWormald said:

May I suggest that to be taken seriously we need to avoid the same denigrative tactics and exaggeration (lies?) that MQA has used. They are already having to back down from some of their more suspect claims due to the diligence of some "auditors". If that can be kept up they may well have to back down to just being a lossy compression algorithm that may sound better than MP3 .

 

Remember that while "fighting fire with fire" can be tempting, the real professionals mostly use water.

 

Gosh!

It would be wonderful if we could warm up the lubricant for the music consumers while MQA goes about their business!

 

The real professionals use fire axes to smash down the barriers to the fire.

[KeenObserver]

Dismissing MQA as "just being a lossy compression algorithm that may sound better than MP3" is the epitome of misdirection.

MQA is a scheme whose purpose is to control the distribution of music and to impose a cost on every aspect of the music distribution business.  And if you think that if that happens, MQA and its supporting studios will not impose actual DRM on the music, you are delusional.

The future of music under MQA would be music corrupted by MQA and DRM. Innovation in the quality of music would disappear. Bob Stuart would be constantly reminding you that the music sounds better than the original.  Of course, there would probably  be people who would continue to actually believe this.

MQA is a scheme to royally screw the music consumer.  I am a music consumer. I take it personally.

[Rt66indierock]

4 hours ago, GregWormald said:

May I suggest that to be taken seriously we need to avoid the same denigrative tactics and exaggeration (lies?) that MQA has used. They are already having to back down from some of their more suspect claims due to the diligence of some "auditors". If that can be kept up they may well have to back down to just being a lossy compression algorithm that may sound better than MP3 .

 

Remember that while "fighting fire with fire" can be tempting, the real professionals mostly use water.

 

Greg, we thrashed this out in 2017 after the LA Audio Show so don't say anything Charles Hansen didn't say on Audio Asylum before he died, point out the lack of consumer acceptance of MQA and question the expertise and powers of observation of every supporter of MQA.

 

As for fighting fires, fight them the way we do in Arizona. The Hotshots use picks, shovels and chainsaws. These tools are effective fighting MQA too.

[Currawong]

On 5/9/2021 at 6:39 AM, KeenObserver said:

My God!

Hans has to be an expert beyond reproach! He has SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENTS behind him!

 

That one on the top is the screen for a proctoscope.

 

Really? What's the model number? I want to look it up myself.

[lamode]

I thought MQA was rightly revealed as a scam back in 2014. I can't believe equipment manufacturers are still supporting this hoax in 2021!

[Stereo]

5 hours ago, lamode said:

I thought MQA was rightly revealed as a scam back in 2014. I can't believe equipment manufacturers are still supporting this hoax in 2021!

Start contacting the manufacturers and ask for them to stop supporting it as there is no need for it and it is doing nothing but costing them and us consumers more money neither of us need nor want to spend especially to MQA!

[LarryMagoo]

Just like we should stop reading Music oriented magazines, written by formerly respected, long-time-editors that used to have credibility.  When even today they still tout MQA!!! 

[Stereo]

2 minutes ago, LarryMagoo said:

Just like we should stop reading Music oriented magazines, written by formerly respected, long-time-editors that used to have credibility.  When even today they still tout MQA!!! 

Whatever it takes to put MQA out of business for good!!

[lamode]

1 hour ago, Stereo said:

Start contacting the manufacturers and ask for them to stop supporting it as there is no need for it and it is doing nothing but costing them and us consumers more money neither of us need nor want to spend especially to MQA!

 

You're right – I will quit complaining and start campaigning.

[Stereo]

5 hours ago, lamode said:

 

You're right – I will quit complaining and start campaigning.

You can still complain. Just complain to the manufacturers, record labels and Tidal!!! 😀