MQA is Vaporware

[Mayfair]

11 hours ago, firedog said:

If they can 

If they can get labels and streaming services to substitute MQA for standard PCM it might work. So far Warner seems to be playing along. Lots of people don't download illegal "inventory", which is how Apple and streaming services make money. It remains to be seen how it will shake out.

Agreed, there's a darkening sky and most of the auguries are not good.  But, maybe, also a glint of sunlight

The Q Sessions, Straight From The Studio Pure PCM Recording Available On Qobuz - Bits and Bytes - Audiophile Style

[KeenObserver]

2 hours ago, Mayfair said:

Agreed, there's a darkening sky and most of the auguries are not good.  But, maybe, also a glint of sunlight

The Q Sessions, Straight From The Studio Pure PCM Recording Available On Qobuz - Bits and Bytes - Audiophile Style

 

Can you imagine a world where MQA controls the entire distribution chain of music? Can you imagine the people from the RMAF 2018 video controlling the future of music? And there are people quietly buying into this!

 

Indeed, some things are worth fighting for. I will never lie down for MQA.

[KeenObserver]

For the sake of full disclosure I, along with other members of the Superheroes for Hi-Rez music, are paid shills for the anti MQA forces. We hold regular meetings in a super secret fortress deep in Antartica. We have sworn an oath to preserve Hi-Rez and fight the evil Bob Stuart.

 

If there are any MQA supporters or followers of Amir that think that this is anything but sarcasm, it is not.

[JoeWhip]

Let me know where it is so I can visit it the next time I am in Antartica. Maybe through here? I hope I didn’t reveal too much!

 

[Archimago]

I know it's been reported a few days ago here, but just saw Darko's note on the Australian "fork" of Tidal HiFi vs. HiFi Plus: https://darko.audio/2021/04/tidal-forks-mqa/

 

That's encouraging and I hope they can exorcise the MQA-affected data from the 16/44.1 lossless stream. I'm happy to join Tidal and have Roon integrate if they can verifiably do that here in Canada. Will be interesting to know how many people would pay extra for so-called "hi-res" and the surround stream (I bet not many and over time that subscriber base would atrophy into nonexistance).

 

I find it disgusting for Darko to say:

Quote

the (shamefully) toxic nature of the hi-fi community discussion surrounding MQA, is it any wonder that newcomers and seasoned audiophiles (like yours truly) throw up their hands in despair to renew their commitment to CD-quality?

 

My goodness. What is truly shameful is the shameless self-promotion and lies of BS/MQA and the paid (in one way or another) shills in the magazines and audiophile press! This includes Darko's own inability to acknowledge when MQA critics in the community are actually correct.

 

The community discussions were just a natural response to all these falsehoods. How else is the passionate audiophile supposed to respond to company opacity, denials and mindless shilling on behalf of MQA but with some frustration and anger at times!? I don't think those of us unhappy with MQA reached the level of literal anger and banging on tables shown at Chris' RMAF 2018 presentation at least - now that was shameful!

 

I think "newcomers and seasoned audiophiles" saw exactly what has become of the audiophile Industry. That there be liars and cheaters out there - out in the open - vetted and promoted by the media along with certain fanbois. Caveat emptor.

 

Acknowledge it or not, Darko (and the audiophile media in general) should be thankful that there are audiophiles who actually gave a damn about this kind of thing. Ultimately nothing good could have come from something based on such falsehoods. Hopefully the Industry recognizes that they "cannot fool all the people all the time".

[Stereo]

2 hours ago, Archimago said:

I know it's been reported a few days ago here, but just saw Darko's note on the Australian "fork" of Tidal HiFi vs. HiFi Plus: https://darko.audio/2021/04/tidal-forks-mqa/

 

That's encouraging and I hope they can exorcise the MQA-affected data from the 16/44.1 lossless stream. I'm happy to join Tidal and have Roon integrate if they can verifiably do that here in Canada. Will be interesting to know how many people would pay extra for so-called "hi-res" and the surround stream (I bet not many and over time that subscriber base would atrophy into nonexistance).

 

I find it disgusting for Darko to say:

 

My goodness. What is truly shameful is the shameless self-promotion and lies of BS/MQA and the paid (in one way or another) shills in the magazines and audiophile press! This includes Darko's own inability to acknowledge when MQA critics in the community are actually correct.

 

The community discussions were just a natural response to all these falsehoods. How else is the passionate audiophile supposed to respond to company opacity, denials and mindless shilling on behalf of MQA but with some frustration and anger at times!? I don't think those of us unhappy with MQA reached the level of literal anger and banging on tables shown at Chris' RMAF 2018 presentation at least - now that was shameful!

 

I think "newcomers and seasoned audiophiles" saw exactly what has become of the audiophile Industry. That there be liars and cheaters out there - out in the open - vetted and promoted by the media along with certain fanbois. Caveat emptor.

 

Acknowledge it or not, Darko (and the audiophile media in general) should be thankful that there are audiophiles who actually gave a damn about this kind of thing. Ultimately nothing good could have come from something based on such falsehoods. Hopefully the Industry recognizes that they "cannot fool all the people all the time".

Very well said! Thank you.

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Archimago said:

I know it's been reported a few days ago here, but just saw Darko's note on the Australian "fork" of Tidal HiFi vs. HiFi Plus: https://darko.audio/2021/04/tidal-forks-mqa/

 

That's encouraging and I hope they can exorcise the MQA-affected data from the 16/44.1 lossless stream. I'm happy to join Tidal and have Roon integrate if they can verifiably do that here in Canada. Will be interesting to know how many people would pay extra for so-called "hi-res" and the surround stream (I bet not many and over time that subscriber base would atrophy into nonexistance).

 

I find it disgusting for Darko to say:

 

My goodness. What is truly shameful is the shameless self-promotion and lies of BS/MQA and the paid (in one way or another) shills in the magazines and audiophile press! This includes Darko's own inability to acknowledge when MQA critics in the community are actually correct.

 

The community discussions were just a natural response to all these falsehoods. How else is the passionate audiophile supposed to respond to company opacity, denials and mindless shilling on behalf of MQA but with some frustration and anger at times!? I don't think those of us unhappy with MQA reached the level of literal anger and banging on tables shown at Chris' RMAF 2018 presentation at least - now that was shameful!

 

I think "newcomers and seasoned audiophiles" saw exactly what has become of the audiophile Industry. That there be liars and cheaters out there - out in the open - vetted and promoted by the media along with certain fanbois. Caveat emptor.

 

Acknowledge it or not, Darko (and the audiophile media in general) should be thankful that there are audiophiles who actually gave a damn about this kind of thing. Ultimately nothing good could have come from something based on such falsehoods. Hopefully the Industry recognizes that they "cannot fool all the people all the time".

And there's this: https://twitteringmachines.com/tidals-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa/

Is it true that only 10% of the Tidal and Qobuz catalogs are in some form of hi-rez?

I find it curious that both these fellows say they barely listen to high res.

I would say most of what I'm interested in pop/rock, jazz, and classical - is available in hi-rez.

 

In any case, I think the Spotify/Tidal CD tier is a blow to MQA.
Tidal doesn't have much to offer over Spotify in this new market configuration. And I think very few will pay extra for the MQA tier now, and I'd guess it may even lose some customers to the CD quality tier. Maybe it will save Roon some money-if they have to pay fewer royalties to MQA.

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Archimago said:

That's encouraging and I hope they can exorcise the MQA-affected data from the 16/44.1 lossless stream. I'm happy to join Tidal and have Roon integrate if they can verifiably do that here in Canada. Will be interesting to know how many people would pay extra for so-called "hi-res" and the surround stream (I bet not many and over time that subscriber base would atrophy into nonexistance).

Agree. But my guess is the CD tier will continue to stream "MQA-CD" as it does now. That will probably just help Qobuz ,Deezer, and Spotify CD tier a bit.

[UkPhil]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Agree. But my guess is the CD tier will continue to stream "MQA-CD" as it does now. That will probably just help Qobuz ,Deezer, and Spotify CD tier a bit.

I agree they would need to put back all the PCM files that were stripped away with MQA versions for starters, but seen as the MQA ethos is one file for all I cannot see it unless they are having second thoughts about MQA 

[KeenObserver]

Hopefully, Tidal is realizing that getting in bed with MQA was a mistake. But I wouldn't count on it.

It seemed like MQA was going into dormancy before, but they were working behind the scenes and when they received their next round of financing they dumped all the MQA encoded music onto Tidal.

I will stop worrying about MQA when someone pounds a stake through their heart.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Anyone heard anything about Apple’s HiFi tier?

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/01/apple-music-hifi-tier-new-airpods-coming-weeks/

[UkPhil]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Anyone heard anything about Apple’s HiFi tier?

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/01/apple-music-hifi-tier-new-airpods-coming-weeks/

Interesting I wonder if they will use their ALAC format to keep it in house 

[firedog]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Anyone heard anything about Apple’s HiFi tier?

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/01/apple-music-hifi-tier-new-airpods-coming-weeks/

     I would have been extremely skeptical  before, but maybe the Spotify move is causing Apple to feel the heat of the competition. $9.99 is a good price, which will put pressure on competitors.

[Daren F]

8 hours ago, firedog said:

Agree. But my guess is the CD tier will continue to stream "MQA-CD" as it does now. That will probably just help Qobuz ,Deezer, and Spotify CD tier a bit.

 

There's been so many lies and falsehoods I don't know if anything Tidal or MQA say can be believed anymore but, this is a recent screen shot from Tidal.com and they are advertising that the Hi-Fi tier is lossless FLAC at 1411 Kbps.

 

 

[firedog]

13 minutes ago, Daren F said:

 

There's been so many lies and falsehoods I don't know if anything Tidal or MQA say can be believed anymore but, this is a recent screen shot from Tidal.com and they are advertising that the Hi-Fi tier is lossless FLAC at 1411 Kbps.

 

 

Sure, but it doesn't say that it will exclusively lossless. So it will be a lossless tier except for the lossy MQA CD. Just like the "master" tier.  Note how the description of the Master tier if basically a lie. 

[Cebolla]

40 minutes ago, Daren F said:

There's been so many lies and falsehoods I don't know if anything Tidal or MQA say can be believed anymore but, this is a recent screen shot from Tidal.com and they are advertising that the Hi-Fi tier is lossless FLAC at 1411 Kbps.

 

They are using MQA Limited's trick of claiming that MQA is lossless because they are shipping it in a FLAC container. If you happen to select an MQA labelled track for streaming, the HiFi quality connection sources that very same MQA track for the stream - it does not magically provide a lossless version in its place:

- If it's an MQA-CD track then it streams unhindered;

- if it's a 24-bit MQA track then its bit depth is truncated to16 bits;

- if the MQA track's (undecoded) sample rate is 48kHz then it's downsampled to 44.1kHz.

 

The track will be lossless only if you have selected a true lossless CD-res track, ie, one that isn't labelled as MQA - not many of those left on TIDAL.

[KeenObserver]

I would suspect that if they were actually supplying CD quality music they would not continue to use MQA's deceptive descriptions.

 

The MQA stink continues to waft from Tidal.

[Daren F]

13 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

They are using MQA Limited's trick of claiming that MQA is lossless because they are shipping it in a FLAC container. If you happen to select an MQA labelled track for streaming, the HiFi quality connection sources that very same MQA track for the stream - it does not magically provide a lossless version in its place:

- If it's an MQA-CD track then it streams unhindered;

- if it's a 24-bit MQA track then its bit depth is truncated to16 bits;

- if the MQA track's (undecoded) sample rate is 48kHz then it's downsampled to 44.1kHz.

 

The track will be lossless only if you have selected a true lossless CD-res track, ie, one that isn't labelled as MQA - not many of those left on TIDAL.

 

So, same shit different day. Thought that this may be something new based on their HiFi tier launched in Australia.

[KeenObserver]

Since 2014, has MQA ever actually came out and told the TRUTH about anything?

[Cebolla]

33 minutes ago, firedog said:

So it will be a lossless tier except for the lossy MQA CD.

It's more accurate to say it'll be a lossy tier unless you've selected tracks not labelled MQA. 

[Dr Tone]

5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Anyone heard anything about Apple’s HiFi tier?

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/01/apple-music-hifi-tier-new-airpods-coming-weeks/

 

Looks like some actual proof…

https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/01/ios-14-6-beta-1-hinted-at-apple-music-hifi-support-with-dolby-audio-references/

[Archimago]

9 hours ago, firedog said:

And there's this: https://twitteringmachines.com/tidals-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa/

Is it true that only 10% of the Tidal and Qobuz catalogs are in some form of hi-rez?

I find it curious that both these fellows say they barely listen to high res.

I would say most of what I'm interested in pop/rock, jazz, and classical - is available in hi-rez.

 

In any case, I think the Spotify/Tidal CD tier is a blow to MQA.
Tidal doesn't have much to offer over Spotify in this new market configuration. And I think very few will pay extra for the MQA tier now, and I'd guess it may even lose some customers to the CD quality tier. Maybe it will save Roon some money-if they have to pay fewer royalties to MQA.

 

Interesting. I rarely read Twittering Machines but this is probably one of the few times some of what Michael writes actually makes some sense. If Tidal does dissociates the MQA/"hi-res" tier with the lossless CD-level tier worldwide, this will at least provide an opportunity for some in the audiophile press to seek a "graceful" distancing of themselves from the MQA. Michael provided the model... By basically saying "I don't listen to much hi-res anyway"...

 

I suspect that's likely the future.

 

While many albums I listen to do have "hi-res" versions, the sad part is that few of these actually are truly better resolution when you look into the data itself, and few albums likely could benefit anyway.

[Archimago]

1 hour ago, Cebolla said:

 

They are using MQA Limited's trick of claiming that MQA is lossless because they are shipping it in a FLAC container. If you happen to select an MQA labelled track for streaming, the HiFi quality connection sources that very same MQA track for the stream - it does not magically provide a lossless version in its place:

- If it's an MQA-CD track then it streams unhindered;

- if it's a 24-bit MQA track then its bit depth is truncated to16 bits;

- if the MQA track's (undecoded) sample rate is 48kHz then it's downsampled to 44.1kHz.

 

The track will be lossless only if you have selected a true lossless CD-res track, ie, one that isn't labelled as MQA - not many of those left on TIDAL.

 

Ouch.

 

If this is what's going to happen in the "Hi-Fi" tier even without the "Plus", then forget Tidal. It's poisoned and cannot even maintain clean 16.44.1.

 

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, Archimago said:

 

Ouch.

 

If this is what's going to happen in the "Hi-Fi" tier even without the "Plus", then forget Tidal. It's poisoned and cannot even maintain clean 16.44.1.

 

 

Indeed. It's just a marketing exercise in renaming the original HiFi tier to HiFi Plus and creating a new HiFi tier to only have the HiFi quality connection available. Given that the TIDAL HiFi quality connection currently provides MQA-CD or hi-res MQA mangled to 16bit/44.1kHz streams, it's very doubtful that'll suddenly start only providing true lossless CD-res sourced streams just because of the tier restructure.

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

Indeed. It's just a marketing exercise in renaming the original HiFi tier to HiFi Plus and creating a new HiFi tier to only have the HiFi quality connection available. Given that the TIDAL HiFi quality connection currently provides MQA-CD or hi-res MQA mangled to 16bit/44.1kHz streams, it's very doubtful that'll suddenly start only providing true lossless CD-res sourced streams just because of the tier restructure.

I’d say it’s only being done to look price competitive with the other lossless services. People who’ve already signed up to pay $20 per month are already in. Keep them at that price and at the same time get more people with the cheaper tier.