MQA is Vaporware

[ChrisG]

2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

ASR has now locked the MQA discussion thread.
 

Prior to this, one of the moderators requested a phone call with me. They said (and no I am not joking) that there were too many people criticising Amir for the MQA related comments he'd made and that they couldn't keep up with the moderation, so they wanted to lock the thread and wanted me to start a new one, in which they would not allow anyone to bring up the statements Amir had made regarding MQA. Because ASR/Amir needed to "remain neutral".
 

I told them that I was unwilling to do this and that censorship is not a good plan. Firstly it will just raise more questions and make ASR/Amir look suspicious, and secondly it's just morally wrong.

If ASR/Amir wants to remain neutral, then Amir shouldn't be making statements in any direction regarding MQA.
 

If they were going to lock the thread I was not going to help them make it more PR-Friendly by posting a new one and saying that it was all ok. Because it isn't.
No one should be immune to criticism, doesn't matter if it's their forum or not. And if you don't want to be criticised, you should say nothing. (And certainly shouldn't run a forum)
 

Even if there are people being un-necessarily hostile, which to be clear, some were, and that should absolutely be handled, if more moderation is needed, appoint more moderators.

Censoring discussion and preventing people from criticizing the forum owner is just wrong. And doing it now, when the owner of the forum says something in defence of a company that is known to have attempted to censor other forums, makes things look damn fishy.

I made quite clear that in my opinion, the best way for ASR to remain neutral would be to leave the thread up, as-is. And simply have Amir not say anything further on the topic.
Let people continue the discussion and have the forum owners/staff remain neutral from here on.

Amir is a jerk and he proved what kind of person he is after he jumped ugly with you over your comment about "money makes the world go round and it's no different here" (he was triggered and thought that "here" meant ASR when it was obvious to myself and others that "here" meant MQA). 

 

And, then, to not apologize to you when you clarified your statement that "here" did indeed mean MQA, that proved what a little man he is. 

BTW, I think you've been a true professional through all this with some of the criticisms you've been getting. I'm not sure that I would be able to rise above it like you have. 

[KeenObserver]

2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

ASR has now locked the MQA discussion thread.
 

Prior to this, one of the moderators requested a phone call with me. They said (and no I am not joking) that there were too many people criticising Amir for the MQA related comments he'd made and that they couldn't keep up with the moderation, so they wanted to lock the thread and wanted me to start a new one, in which they would not allow anyone to bring up the statements Amir had made regarding MQA. Because ASR/Amir needed to "remain neutral".
 

I told them that I was unwilling to do this and that censorship is not a good plan. Firstly it will just raise more questions and make ASR/Amir look suspicious, and secondly it's just morally wrong.

If ASR/Amir wants to remain neutral, then Amir shouldn't be making statements in any direction regarding MQA.
 

If they were going to lock the thread I was not going to help them make it more PR-Friendly by posting a new one and saying that it was all ok. Because it isn't.
No one should be immune to criticism, doesn't matter if it's their forum or not. And if you don't want to be criticised, you should say nothing. (And certainly shouldn't run a forum)
 

Even if there are people being un-necessarily hostile, which to be clear, some were, and that should absolutely be handled, if more moderation is needed, appoint more moderators.

Censoring discussion and preventing people from criticizing the forum owner is just wrong. And doing it now, when the owner of the forum says something in defence of a company that is known to have attempted to censor other forums, makes things look damn fishy.

I made quite clear that in my opinion, the best way for ASR to remain neutral would be to leave the thread up, as-is. And simply have Amir not say anything further on the topic.
Let people continue the discussion and have the forum owners/staff remain neutral from here on.

 

I think it should be repeated the music lovers everywhere owe you a debt for exposing those things that MQA is trying so desperately to hide.

[JoeWhip]

I am beginning to think that the bloom is off the rose for Amir at ASR. The MQA has provoked some real vitriol towards Amir, some of which was over the top. More interesting is some of the blowback he got for the JBL speaker review which found, shall we say, less than stellar measurements. Nonetheless, he recommended them after actually listening to them and liking them. Almost like a subjectivist reviewer saying don’t mind the measurements, it sounds good. Fascinating.

 

 

[fas42]

1 hour ago, ChrisG said:

Amir is a jerk and he proved what kind of person he is after he jumped ugly with you over your comment about "money makes the world go round and it's no different here" (he was triggered and thought that "here" meant ASR when it was obvious to myself and others that "here" meant MQA). 

 

And, then, to not apologize to you when you clarified your statement that "here" did indeed mean MQA, that proved what a little man he is. 

BTW, I think you've been a true professional through all this with some of the criticisms you've been getting. I'm not sure that I would be able to rise above it like you have. 

 

I've had a couple of back and forths with Amir, 😉 - and what I found out is that it's all about "winning the 'fight'" ... for him. The more one argues some technical point, the more he throws absolutely anything that's at hand at you - he works on the basis of wearing you down, by using some and more words with each post; he latches onto the fight like a ferret, and refuses to let go, no matter what. So, the solution when you see this happening is to gracefully step aside - a boxing match with one person in it ends pretty quickly 😊.

[Josh Mound]

4 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

ASR has now locked the MQA discussion thread.
 

Prior to this, one of the moderators requested a phone call with me. They said (and no I am not joking) that there were too many people criticising Amir for the MQA related comments he'd made and that they couldn't keep up with the moderation, so they wanted to lock the thread and wanted me to start a new one, in which they would not allow anyone to bring up the statements Amir had made regarding MQA. Because ASR/Amir needed to "remain neutral".
 

I told them that I was unwilling to do this and that censorship is not a good plan. Firstly it will just raise more questions and make ASR/Amir look suspicious, and secondly it's just morally wrong.

If ASR/Amir wants to remain neutral, then Amir shouldn't be making statements in any direction regarding MQA.
 

If they were going to lock the thread I was not going to help them make it more PR-Friendly by posting a new one and saying that it was all ok. Because it isn't.
No one should be immune to criticism, doesn't matter if it's their forum or not. And if you don't want to be criticised, you should say nothing. (And certainly shouldn't run a forum)
 

Even if there are people being un-necessarily hostile, which to be clear, some were, and that should absolutely be handled, if more moderation is needed, appoint more moderators.

Censoring discussion and preventing people from criticizing the forum owner is just wrong. And doing it now, when the owner of the forum says something in defence of a company that is known to have attempted to censor other forums, makes things look damn fishy.

I made quite clear that in my opinion, the best way for ASR to remain neutral would be to leave the thread up, as-is. And simply have Amir not say anything further on the topic.
Let people continue the discussion and have the forum owners/staff remain neutral from here on.

 

The above is impossible! I've heard that, while @The Computer Audiophile is a ruthless censor, Amir cultivates a forum focused on a no-holds-barred exchange of ideas in the search of objective truth. 😉

 

More seriously, isn't this the second MQA thread that's been locked at ASR because Amir made a fool of himself and got repeatedly dunked on by his followers?

[Josh Mound]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

I've had a couple of back and forths with Amir, 😉 - and what I found out is that it's all about "winning the 'fight'" ... for him. The more one argues some technical point, the more he throws absolutely anything that's at hand at you - he works on the basis of wearing you down, by using some and more words with each post; he latches onto the fight like a ferret, and refuses to let go, no matter what. So, the solution when you see this happening is to gracefully step aside - a boxing match with one person in it ends pretty quickly 😊.

 

His comments in that thread were hilarious. He kept citing Bob Stuart's CV, as if that's a rebuttal to objective analyses of what MQA does and doesn't do.

 

Then he brought up random things like the Apple store's business model. Huh? What does that have to do with MQA? It was also rich to see someone who worked at Microsoft during the '90s and '00s (and whose emails were part of the DOJ's antitrust case against MS!) slamming Apple for monopolistic practices!

[ChrisG]

1 hour ago, JoeWhip said:

I am beginning to think that the bloom is off the rose for Amir at ASR. The MQA has provoked some real vitriol towards Amir, some of which was over the top. More interesting is some of the blowback he got for the JBL speaker review which found, shall we say, less than stellar measurements. Nonetheless, he recommended them after actually listening to them and liking them. Almost like a subjectivist reviewer saying don’t mind the measurements, it sounds good. Fascinating.

 

 

Yeah, interesting how he pulled that stunt. Then again, I'd hardly expect him to tell people not to buy a product his company sells to customers. #Hypocrite 

[MikeyFresh]

34 minutes ago, JoshM said:

More seriously, isn't this the second MQA thread that's been locked at ASR because Amir made a fool of himself and got repeatedly dunked on by his followers?

Yes, it most certainly is.

[Mayfair]

On 4/28/2021 at 4:11 PM, firedog said:

The MQA people and the record labels-streaming companies  may be mistaken, but the seem to be looking long term at the whole music industry ecosystem, and thinking that long term they will manage to squeeze large additional "rents" out of consumers and audio companies. 

I don't doubt that's their long term plan, but I wonder how much additional rent and for how long can they really expect to extract  big rents when there is a vast global inventory of unadulterated lossless music in FLAC and other lossless audio coding formats that are technically and qualitatively superior to MQA?  Would there be the establishment of pirate radio stations streaming lossless to cater to the market?  Would there be the establishment of new record labels signing new artists and distributing MQA-less music? Could one or more of the MQA sponsor labels defect?  

 

It would be ironic if the MQA people end up left with the bathwater, and fitting since they are attempting to throw out the baby - unadulterated music.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

2 hours ago, JoshM said:

 

His comments in that thread were hilarious. He kept citing Bob Stuart's CV, as if that's a rebuttal to objective analyses of what MQA does and doesn't do.

 

Then he brought up random things like the Apple store's business model. Huh? What does that have to do with MQA? It was also rich to see someone who worked at Microsoft during the '90s and '00s (and whose emails were part of the DOJ's antitrust case against MS!) slamming Apple for monopolistic practices!

Amir is one of the most vile, disingenuous, and incompetent buffoons you will encounter on any forum

 

He is a sociopath and a charlatan, hence his attraction to Stuart. It is commonly known in my business they stick together. Oh, and he is a malignant narcissist to boot.

 

Aside from making an utter fool of himself for years, he has bamboozled his flock and fleeces them through Patreon.

 

Apparently he also fleeces the American tax payer. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys, I understand the dislike of ASR and/or Amir but I’d like people to stop the personal attacks. Attack the work product, forum rules, decisions, etc…  but not the personal stuff. 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Guys, I understand the dislike of ASR and/or Amir but I’d like people to stop the personal attacks. Attack the work product, forum rules, decisions, etc…  but not the personal stuff. 

Chris, I understand where you are coming from, but unfortunately Amir's dishonesty and sociopathy are intertwined and part of the very fabric of his forum. There is not a single manufacturer who will so much as send him a nut and bolt to "review", he has set about to destroy small businesses, and cause great harm.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Chris, I understand where you are coming from, but unfortunately Amir's dishonesty and sociopathy are intertwined and part of the very fabric of his forum. There is not a single manufacturer who will so much as send him a nut and bolt to "review", he has set about to destroy small businesses, and cause great harm.

False. Several regularly send him new products for review. Schiit, Allo, Matrix, Topping, come to mind. And they aren't the only ones.

[firedog]

If they can 

4 hours ago, Mayfair said:

I don't doubt that's their long term plan, but I wonder how much additional rent and for how long can they really expect to extract  big rents when there is a vast global inventory of unadulterated lossless music in FLAC and other lossless audio coding formats that are technically and qualitatively superior to MQA?  Would there be the establishment of pirate radio stations streaming lossless to cater to the market?  Would there be the establishment of new record labels signing new artists and distributing MQA-less music? Could one or more of the MQA sponsor labels defect?  

 

It would be ironic if the MQA people end up left with the bathwater, and fitting since they are attempting to throw out the baby - unadulterated music.

If they can get labels and streaming services to substitute MQA for standard PCM it might work. So far Warner seems to be playing along. Lots of people don't download illegal "inventory", which is how Apple and streaming services make money. It remains to be seen how it will shake out.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

53 minutes ago, firedog said:

False. Several regularly send him new products for review. Schiit, Allo, Matrix, Topping, come to mind. And they aren't the only ones.

You are sadly misinformed. Schiit? Check your facts. They despise him,

[Arg]

42 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

You are sadly misinformed. Schiit? Check your facts. They despise him,

"This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Modi 3+ DAC. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing and costs US $99 from the company direct." link: https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-3-review-stereo-dac.18480/

 

Maybe check YOUR facts...

[firedog]

55 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

You are sadly misinformed. Schiit? Check your facts. They despise him,

https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-3-review-stereo-dac.18480/

"This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Modi 3+ DAC. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing and costs US $99 from the company direct."

 

https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modius-balanced-dac-review.13769/

"This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Modius Balanced USB DAC. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing. The Modius costs just US $199 which is quite cheap for a balanced DAC from a western company."

 

He's given several positive reviews to Schiit products in the past couple of years b/c they measured extremely well and are good value.
Schiit participate at his forum. He wrote of a channel imbalance in a used unit sent to him for review. Schiit came onto the forum and offered to test it and fix it for free for the owner if it was sent to them. They found the problem and fixed the device. Amir and the owner praised them. Great PR for them to come online and solve the issue.

 

Schiit not only doesn't despise him, they seem to have made a conscious effort to make sure their devices will look good on his measurement tests. I think they are well aware that his readership is an excellent target market for them.

 

Maybe it isn't the best strategy to  constantly try  to be the king of invective on the forum. It's not the first time your apparent desire to show off your ability to be nasty has led you to posting falsehoods. 

[bambadoo]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:36 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

My guess is Pål Bråtelund heads it up as he worked / works with MQA and Roon. I like Paul a lot. Just don't agree with his take on MQA. 

Yes probably a nice and smart guy but his take om MQA... He is also referring to 2 and 3 unfold as if they are 100% lossless.  

 

Imagine the idea of all created music stored one place. Just one file each tune to save the earth. Everything MQA processed. (or on the fly MQA tagged that depends on what you are willing to pay or have of certified and licenced equipment). End to end encryption. Other metadata done by Roon.
"Just as the artist intended."

 

The business model idea of https://vilvit.io/ is not bad. 

For consumers (average guy) it is of course not. Just like MQA.  

 

 

 

 

 

[DuckToller]

1 hour ago, bambadoo said:

The business model idea of https://vilvit.io/ is not bad. 

For consumers (average guy) it is of course not. Just like MQA.  

well, that's a case for XR's future activity, compromising the green mind with money from the Richemont owners ...
Isn't that called green-washing ?

[DuckToller]

https://rebellion.earth/2019/12/04/breaking-cop25-extinction-rebellion-occupies-zara-on-madrids-gran-via-greenwashing-is-a-cop-out-green-words-toxic-truths/

[KeenObserver]

8 hours ago, JoshM said:

 

The above is impossible! I've heard that, while @The Computer Audiophile is a ruthless censor, Amir cultivates a forum focused on a no-holds-barred exchange of ideas in the search of objective truth. 😉

 

More seriously, isn't this the second MQA thread that's been locked at ASR because Amir made a fool of himself and got repeatedly dunked on by his followers?

 

It is like Amir recoils in horror when someone questions any ridiculous claim about MQA. He then responds with the most absurd statements, statements even a five year old would look at and say: "That's stupid".  If someone points out the inconsistencies in his irrational statements, he storms off in a huff and closes the thread.

Amir is terrified of anyone questioning MQA on his site. Scientific analysis goes out the window and irrational defense takes its place.  

[KeenObserver]

MQA is (like) a religion. You cannot question it and must accept it on faith alone. You have to continually repeat the mantra "It sounds better" until you actually believe it.

[UkPhil]

8 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

MQA is (like) a religion. You cannot question it and must accept it on faith alone. You have to continually repeat the mantra "It sounds better" until you actually believe it.

If you repeat the marketing enough people will believe and follow

[KeenObserver]

6 minutes ago, UkPhil said:

If you repeat the marketing enough people will believe and follow

Well, if that is what they want to do.  I just hope they don't drink the Kool-Aid.

[lucretius]

3 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

Well, if that is what they want to do.  I just hope they don't drink the Kool-Aid.

 

Or worse, I hope they don't drink the Flavor Aid. 🙂