MQA is Vaporware

[Confused]

5 minutes ago, StephenJK said:

My understanding was that Roon did the first unfolding (if enabled) and the Devialet DAC section did the rest (if enabled). 

 

From what you're saying, Devialet doesn't support MQA and Roon doesn't do much either.  

 

I'll just turn off those settings and not lose any sleep over it.  Thanks for the reply.

I suggest that you take a look here.  It is a four page thread, but the later sections are probably most relevant.

 

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet-and-MQA?

[Dr Tone]

36 minutes ago, StephenJK said:

'll just turn off those settings and not lose any sleep over it.  Thanks for the reply.

 

If you listen to MQA, I'd leave Roon doing the first unfold.  If you want the best quality to feed your Devialet feed it regular PCM.

[StephenJK]

20 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I just compare the original CD, and the pure PCM 24/96 from Qobuz to the MQA upsampling. 

For what it's worth, here are a couple of tracks in 24/96 that I recorded with a Korg MR-2000S years ago.  The turntable was either a Rega P9 or a Clearaudio Innovation Compact with a Shelter 501 cartridge.  

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vaqqb8rmyuv5rmb/AADOS1spZ0yaG1v-ApbJwTcVa?dl=0

 

 

[FredericV]

Our favorite MQA influencer does it again ...

 

This is just an mp4 container with a stereo 48K flac as audio format:

 

Why would you care about a 2ch crypto DRM format added to an mp4 file, when you can have Dolby Atmos & DTS:X (which is also proprietary, but at least has a respectable amount of channels and object steering?

[The Computer Audiophile]

"Influencers" never stop "influencing" 😁

[ShawnC]

And influencers are worse then the influenza. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, ShawnC said:

And influencers are worse then the influenza. 

I'm not a fan of either :~)

[botrytis]

MQA wants to be the Covid-19 of audio world......

[FredericV]

53 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

"Influencers" never stop "influencing" 😁

and deny having a commercial interest:

[The Computer Audiophile]

Some people just crave access, popularity, and rubbing elbows with pseudo celebrities. Not my thing, but if it makes them happy, oh well. 

[Dr Tone]

31 minutes ago, botrytis said:

MQA wants to be the Covid-19 of audio world......

 

Some can't social distance from it and keep spreading it around.

[UkPhil]

3 hours ago, FredericV said:

and deny having a commercial interest:

But they are all over you like a rash when you query their beliefs it’s like a religion, they even stalk you on other Facebook groups diluting threads it’s pretty creepy to be honest 

[John Dyson]

I get frustrated whenever people can even see a technical advantage to MQA:

 

1)  MQA takes valid bits away, using them to encode data, where that encoded data can replace the amount of information in the removed bits AT THE VERY BEST.*

2)  To use this 'removed' or 'hidden' data, additional steps and licenses need to be dealt with...  Eventually, just barely replacing the amount of data that was previously removed.

3)  The consumer without the decoding capability, or who even wants access to the same quality as the non-MQA version will get LESS than what they have paid for, unless there is a BIG MQA-DATA-LOSS disclaimer in the adverts/sales literature.

 

*  At lower rates, there can be benefits to perceptual encoding/decoding, but that isn't want MQA does...   At 44.1k/16bits, there is very little benefit to perceptual encoding, other than to replace lost precision caused by MQA data-hiding (back to a little less audible quality.)   MQA does a cute interpolation/extrapolation type game, totally unneeded at 44.1k/16bits, unless starting with full quality (44.1k/16bits) to begin with before the MQA 'unfolding'.

 

 

So -- where's the beef?  MQA has small little beef patties -- give me the REAL stuff, give me the stuff that was mixed-down only with adaptation to the media (no compression, please, no lossy processing, PLEASE!!!)   With MQA, another layer of signal damage, makes the beef patty more small, even after processing.   (Where's the beef comes from an ancient Wendy's commercial -- basically says -- there is 'not-very-much' in the hamburger (I mean, signal.))  * Maybe your dog or cat can hear the calculated NOISE/garbage created by MQA unfolding, but even at my best (and it was very good), I could only hear 20-21kHz at rather high levels.

 

No need for more MQA created HF noise -- have you ever seen the hash, noise, etc on most hi-res distribution copies anyway?   (I can explain that the changing HF noise that looks like signal is mostly noise-reduction-system noise modulation, but in relatively uncommon cases, like high quality stuff from Diament  -- the >20kHz can truly be the 'real thing.'   High res pop recordings often have enough useless, non-music noise in the >20kHz regions anyway. -- MQA doesn't need to add more.)

 

Hmmmm...   I wonder how good MQA is at re-estimating the original >20kHz garbage noise in the high-res orginal.   Is the damaged MQA created garbage noise actually better than the original noise from the high-res copy?  :-).

 

 

 

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

As much as I despise Master Quack Audio, I believe the conspiracy theorists who feel the record companies are going to switch everything out to Master Quack are off the mark. I don't think the record companies give a flying fuck about it.

 

They just released from the (virtual) vaults thousands of albums on the Columbia, Epic, RCA-Legacy, and Warner/Rhino labels in 24/192 and 24/96... Some of the latter never before available in 24 bit PCM. Examples include Blood, Sweat, & Tears, Flying Burrito Bros., Joe Cocker, etc.

 

If they wanted to Master Quack to be the sole distributed format, they are blowing it.

[KeenObserver]

15 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

As much as I despise Master Quack Audio, I believe the conspiracy theorists who feel the record companies are going to switch everything out to Master Quack are off the mark. I don't think the record companies give a flying fuck about it.

 

They just released from the (virtual) vaults thousands of albums on the Columbia, Epic, RCA-Legacy, and Warner/Rhino labels in 24/192 and 24/96... Some of the latter never before available in 24 bit PCM. Examples include Blood, Sweat, & Tears, Flying Burrito Bros., Joe Cocker, etc.

 

If they wanted to Master Quack to be the sole distributed format, they are blowing it.

 

I think that the record companies do want MQA to be the sole distribution method, but they are receiving negative feedback from their efforts to ram MQA down the throats of the music consumer. I think the music consumer is realizing what a sleazy operation MQA is and the history of the people that are financing MQA.

In today's "woke" environment, people are not going to support financiers with a history like the financiers behind MQA, no matter how much they try and rewrite their history.

[loop7]

Maybe Apple could buy MQA and make it exclusive. I know that's an edge scenario but throwing it out there.

 

It would then be revolutionary.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, loop7 said:

Maybe Apple could buy MQA and make it exclusive. I know that's an edge scenario but throwing it out there.

 

It would then be revolutionary.

Why would they want to?

I doubt they view it as adding anything.

[John Dyson]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:36 PM, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

As much as I despise Master Quack Audio, I believe the conspiracy theorists who feel the record companies are going to switch everything out to Master Quack are off the mark. I don't think the record companies give a flying fuck about it.

 

They just released from the (virtual) vaults thousands of albums on the Columbia, Epic, RCA-Legacy, and Warner/Rhino labels in 24/192 and 24/96... Some of the latter never before available in 24 bit PCM. Examples include Blood, Sweat, & Tears, Flying Burrito Bros., Joe Cocker, etc.

 

If they wanted to Master Quack to be the sole distributed format, they are blowing it.

The 'conspiracy' is actually a business decision about further protecting their IP by keeping it captive in a SEMI-encrypted digital domain.   This is similar to the FA scheme 'windmill' that I am tilting (trying to retrieve the real recording -- much more successful in the last few days.)   Pure recordings are seldom available, and the industry just wants to further protect their IP by giving you only 14bits instead of 16bits of clear digital data.   The use of MQA is a tradeoff to keep the 16 bits captive. (My FA decoding scheme should mostly subvert the 14bit problem -- since the 2 bits are pretty much noise, and the decoding method is excellent at pushing down the noise.)

 

This is simiar to the digital video HDMI & other TRUE encryption schemes (I guess audio also), where the RGB is no longer available - that is, unless one is an expert electronics hacker who can find a raw video access point.   To decode HDMI into raw video, a license, NDA and decryption info needs to be obtained.   Back where I used to work, the actual decryption software was kept from all people sans a few -- to  protect the video IP.

 

It is NOT a conspiracy -- just business.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

 

[UkPhil]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Let’s hope they are not fans of MQA in the long run 

[R1200CL]

https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/square-acquires-tidal-jay-z-streaming-jack-dorsey-1234921678/

[lucretius]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/square-acquires-tidal-jay-z-streaming-jack-dorsey-1234921678/

 

Does that mean we're going to get bombed with tweets about Tidal?

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

Does that mean we're going to get bombed with tweets about Tidal?

I'd say it means Tidal is morphing into something different that took Stripe to get it there. 

[lucretius]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'd say it means Tidal is morphing into something different that took Stripe to get it there. 

 

https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/stripe/sht-happens-thats-life

[Currawong]

I reckon that TIDAL saw the writing on the wall with Spotify going to release a lossless tier, and quickly sold themselves.