Jump to content
IGNORED

MQA is Vaporware


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Mayfair said:

Exactly.  And with all the confusion in labeling,  I think I am going to hold off buying downloads until I'm sure I know that when I am considering purchasing music that is not labeled as MQA, I can rely that I'm not being sold stealth-MQA.  

Yea, we need Provenance😂


https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/732807

Dark side of the moon has presently 1021 versions.

 

Link to comment
27 minutes ago, FredericV said:

I noticed my decoder is outputting a 24 bit file from a 16 bit MQA encoded file (from one of those albums which Tidal replaced with 16/44.1 MQA).


afbeelding.png.35cd0ccbf0fa3cb30691afb662c88f2c.png

 

But that does not make it a true 24 bit file, as those batch encoded files started out as 16/44.1, now batch processed to add the MQA sauce to it ...

 

 

If that was a 16 bit MQA file put into a 24 bit flac, then that should leave the bottom 8 bits all as zero. Right?

 

mQa is dead!

Link to comment

Okay so comparing the Phil Collins album, just switching between Master and HiFi I was unable to reliably detect any difference.

 

The Deep Purple live, Made in Japan - again, switching between Master and HiFi, the MQA version appears to have a touch more definition, but really just a touch more -- it's like the difference between a CD an a 96 kHz file.

 

I'll listen to the others. Maybe I'll break out the HD600 for this. Currently using the TH900 (Lawton modded for balanced cable) which is a very resolving unit but its V shaped sound signature might be hiding differences.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, FredericV said:

I noticed my decoder is outputting a 24 bit file from a 16 bit MQA encoded file (from one of those albums which Tidal replaced with 16/44.1 MQA).


You have the same issue as me. Even Roon support won’t comment on this. Why do they avoid the issue ?

What is even more surprising is Lumin firmware guy (he is here to) clame decoding is correct. It can’t be. It’s an error. Actually an display error. Which Bob says doesn’t matter if I understand his foggy explanations.  
 

There is no doubt. Transport rate is 16/44.1. Original encoded file is 16 bit. Have never been upsampled. It’s a MQA Authentication at 44.1.
 

Roon has done a good job to show us what we get. Under the cover they always tells us what the transport rate and container is. After they display the original encoded file, which is verified by the authentication flag in SW. (Not so with tidal). 
 

But the Core Decoder has an error. I assume we must blame MQA Ltd. Not Roon. 
I’m quite sure the real file of cause is 16/44.1 (minus MQA bits or whatever has been  done by the decoding machine. 

The error also applies to all 48kHz/24 that display MQA 48 kHz. 

C3CD7F31-07DE-48DC-82CE-C72F25D9F04F.jpeg

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, GUTB said:

This isn't a simple compression mechanism, it's trying to rebuild a picture of the original's timing cues

In other words, "there's more to MQA than you think" or something to that effect. Another parroting of Bob-speak.

 

21 minutes ago, GUTB said:

the final unfold applying the remaining timing corrections.

Would that be a second "unfold" (read: upsampling with lousy filters), or are you referring to some mythical third unfold, in which MQA certified hardware can literally birth a new world, causing a veritable revolution in audio.

 

21 minutes ago, GUTB said:

This is what I gathered from the various interviews.

Who was interviewed, Bob Stuart? We're back to pure marketing-speak, again. A broken record.

 

What, did they toss you a free Dragonfly Cobalt or something?

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

Boycott Warner Music Group

Link to comment
2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

You have the same issue as me. Even Roon support won’t comment on this. Why do they avoid the issue ?

 

Officially, Roon support did answer you here:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-core-decode-16-bit-mqa-to-what/131491/9?u=wklie

 

"The MQA Core Decoder always outputs either 24bit/88.2kHz or 24bit/96kHz, regardless of the original bit-rate or sample rate of the content. -John"

 

I disagree this to be a case of "Roon support won’t comment on this".

Peter Lie

LUMIN Firmware Lead

Link to comment
1 hour ago, kumakuma said:

 

koolaid.thumb.jpg.c5cee89419eef6dccc67caf3b7c51203.jpg

 

I appreciate the reaction image, but if you have a better understanding of the process please share. I understand that MQA Ltd. doesn't want to tell the public how exactly it works because it would be stolen. So we have no choice to go by what Stuart says in interviews and other industry people who have an inside track, for example Roon.

 

It's been repeated several times that time domain correction was the driving motivation of MQA. The business aspect of it, providing a compression technique to make hi-res content delivery more economical is there to bring the streaming services onboard. The authentication aspect is for labels. These are things which MQA, a for-profit company, will try to market to consumers. How they chose to market it isn't relevant to me, I only care about the sonic benefits. Don't you care about the sonic benefits?

Link to comment
6 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

 

If that was a 16 bit MQA file put into a 24 bit flac, then that should leave the bottom 8 bits all as zero. Right?

 

I believe that's what Bob Stuart said when it was highlighted on the MQA Facebook site, it was put down to an error in the batch processing of these Red Book PCM files as some were dumped into a 24 bit container so I assume just padded with zeros with no difference in its "sonic" output 

Link to comment
5 hours ago, GUTB said:

I don't think it's an error, I believe MQA will always unfold to 88.2 kHz regardless of the original sample rate. This isn't a simple compression mechanism, it's trying to rebuild a picture of the original's timing cues along with the original information up to 50 kHz (hence the 88.2 kHz rate) and this unfold is likely generated the same across the board with the final unfold applying the remaining timing corrections. This is what I gathered from the various interviews.

I am not sure, this is true their are a lot of these conversions giving this info, 
Not sure in 1979 The Scorpions were ahead of the digital game this would have been an analogue recording

with about 11/12 bits of DR 
why output it to 88.2 ??.....such a mess 

In fact it's practically up sampling for no reason 

image.png

Link to comment
3 hours ago, GUTB said:

How they chose to market it isn't relevant to me, I only care about the sonic benefits. Don't you care about the sonic benefits?

That may work on a individual scale with selected "white gloved" recordings due to expectation bias and perhaps available "craftmanship", who knows? As a mass processing with hundred thousends of tracks from different provenance with different masterings - it's a recipe for a sonic benefits desaster, imho. And eventually your preferences aren't too relevant for the majority and any scientific approach on the subject ?

Link to comment
6 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

I appreciate the reaction image, but if you have a better understanding of the process please share. I understand that MQA Ltd. doesn't want to tell the public how exactly it works because it would be stolen. So we have no choice to go by what Stuart says in interviews and other industry people who have an inside track, for example Roon.

 

It's been repeated several times that time domain correction was the driving motivation of MQA. The business aspect of it, providing a compression technique to make hi-res content delivery more economical is there to bring the streaming services onboard. The authentication aspect is for labels. These are things which MQA, a for-profit company, will try to market to consumers. How they chose to market it isn't relevant to me, I only care about the sonic benefits. Don't you care about the sonic benefits?

 

What MQA is giving you is "TOT".

MQA is supplying you with contaminated brandy.

 

It's a metaphor.  Look it up.

Boycott Warner

Boycott Tidal

Boycott Roon

Boycott Lenbrook

Link to comment
18 hours ago, Norton said:


looks to me that the CD layer on the hybrid SACD is MQA. See the footer on penultimate  page of  booklet. If I’m right, it may be confusing that they also describe this layer as “Standard CD Stereo”

Attached the response from Eudora Records, for everyone who wants to know the truth:
"thank you for your email and your interest. Yes, you can buy it at our website, you have the "BUY SACD" button next to the cover:) It is a hybrid SACD disc, one layer is the SACD/DSD version, and the other layer the MQA-CD. Let me know if you still have doubts!"

Case closed ?
 

Link to comment
9 hours ago, wklie said:

 

Officially, Roon support did answer you here:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-core-decode-16-bit-mqa-to-what/131491/9?u=wklie

 

"The MQA Core Decoder always outputs either 24bit/88.2kHz or 24bit/96kHz, regardless of the original bit-rate or sample rate of the content. -John"

 

I disagree this to be a case of "Roon support won’t comment on this".


Point is, nobody says if this is an display error, or if the file actually is 16/44.1 kHz that is mysterious converted to 24 bet depth as well as a double sample rate.
 

I’m sure you know the truth, as you must know what your DAC receives. So it would be very helpful if you tell us.

Link to comment
28 minutes ago, R1200CL said:


Point is, nobody says if this is an display error, or if the file actually is 16/44.1 kHz that is mysterious converted to 24 bet depth as well as a double sample rate.
 

I’m sure you know the truth, as you must know what your DAC receives. So it would be very helpful if you tell us.

 

They have told you multiple times it is converted to 24bit 88.2.  It's the way MQA's core decoder works and they have no choice to do as MQA wants.

 

Just another place where MQA is upsampling.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

Link to comment
10 hours ago, GUTB said:

I don't think it's an error, I believe MQA will always unfold to 88.2 kHz regardless of the original sample rate.


Will it that’s true, MQA have some explanations to do. Cause there isn’t anything to unfold. Then some sort of upsampling must happen, which is also hard to believe. 

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, R1200CL said:


Will it that’s true, MQA have some explanations to do. Cause there isn’t anything to unfold. Then some sort of upsampling must happen, which is also hard to believe. 

 

How is it hard to believe?  Everything after the first unfold has always been upsampling to get back to the source sample rate.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...