Popular Post Ishmael Slapowitz Posted December 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2020 11 hours ago, GUTB said: I was an early adopter of MQA. When it was released to the public I first got a Meridian Explorer 2. I wasn't able to hear any benefit with MQA from this DAC. I got a Dragonfly Red next and patiently waited for its MQA support firmware update. With the Dragonfly I was able to hear the improvement from MQA for the first time. This wasn't a real DAC however being USB dongle type using a tiny IC amp etc, really lacked dynamics. Next I picked up a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital, and again I heard the benefit of MQA. Although it was better than than the Dragonfly, once again the dynamics were lacking so it was ultimately an unpleasing DAC. For a while after this I was upgrading my record system, then trying to bring my digital up to the level of of my analog so MQA got back-burnered. Finally I got a Myek Liberty which unlike most MQA DACs can do the decoding on all inputs allowing the use of MQA-CD. I still have the Liberty today and it's hooked up to my headphone system. The Cyan was for experimenting with R2R DSD decoding, and Yggdrasil is my latest and probably final attempt to bring my digital up to the level of my analog. That's on hold right now as I'm burning in a Purifi class D amp and my main amp until recently, an Odyssey Stratos, is broken and my filler amps just aren't as good. I tried to fix the Stratos but to no avail, I may have no choice but to send it in for service, possibly upgrade to something better. So things are on hold right now. If the Yggdrasil can bridge the gap, I'll just have to give up on MQA in my main system and leave it for my headphone setup. If the Yggdrasil doesn't help, maybe I'll upgrade to a Manhattan II and bring back MQA, MQA-CD while my analog is for critical listening / when I feel like it. So yes, I have made some effort to validate MQA's results. Yikes Guff Bee. After>@MikeyFreshhas had his way with you, you need a Kotex for your Tuchus. You are always good for a chuckle, Thanks! lucretius and MikeyFresh 2 Link to comment
Popular Post lucretius Posted December 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2020 43 minutes ago, bogi said: Quote MQA-CD The performances were recorded in September 2019 at the Auditorio San Francisco in Ávila, Spain and captured in DSD256. The original master was then encoded in MQA and converted directly into CD format (44.1kHz/16bit). MQA-CD brings these benefits: - MQA preserves delicate time resolution in the sound, capturing the spatial acoustics of the venue. MQA avoids ‘smearing’ distortions which are inevitable when making a normal CD; - MQA-CD is fully compatible, no special equipment is needed to play it and many of the sound benefits are available to everyone; - If the CD is played back using an MQA-enabled device, the file can ‘unfold’ to as high as 352.8 kHz, delivering the best possible sound approved by the label. Purchase the MQA-CD of Gaëlle Solal's 'Tuhu' from the Eudora Records website. Notice the baldface lie in bold above. Teresa, MikeyFresh and IT Freak 3 mQa is dead! Link to comment
IT Freak Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, DuckToller said: Still wondering about the buzz ... and where the source file you've encoded is arriving from if you haven't got the MQA-CD of that album? Download from Tidal, Eudora, HDtracks, other ??? It appears that you have neither the original MQA-CD nor the files from a rip of an original MQA-CD and you assume that from your methodology you can prove they are scam? Did I summarize your intention correctly ? I understand that you may have proved something to be incorrect and you are unhappy with MQA's woeful & untrue marketing efforts: If I am not mistaken, this doesn't look like the hottest news from the MQA kitchen, ymmv. Would you please explain to me why you think that this is utterly important because I didn't get that point from your postings?? And no, I am not an MQA troll, I am just trying to emphasize what people starting reading this threat may understand and what not. Cheers, Tom The link on MQA's website says "you can purchase the MQA-CD on the Eudora website" and when you click the link and you buy them, you don't get the "MQA-CD" but you get 24bit MQAs. That's the "buzz". The stream from Tidal is 24bit as well, easy to check with Audirvana, Roon, ... when playing you see 24bit Link to comment
DuckToller Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 31 minutes ago, IT Freak said: The link on MQA's website says "you can purchase the MQA-CD on the Eudora website" and when you click the link and you buy them, you don't get the "MQA-CD" but you get 24bit MQAs. That's the "buzz". The stream from Tidal is 24bit as well, easy to check with Audirvana, Roon, ... when playing you see 24bit Did you buy these 24bit MQA's from there then and where they confirmed from Eudora as MQA-CD DL files or did they announce them as 24bit files on the invoice ??? Did they send you the wrong DL link ? Did you talk with the label about that offer & your experience before publishing your analysis here? And how did they respond ? Perhaps, the MQA-CD you intent to analyze and encode isn't yet available from them? If you find my suggestion strange please tell me ... Link to comment
GUTB Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 I frankly don't understand what IT Freak stands to gain by lying. I actually own MQA-CDs. They play back fine from regular CD players, they play back fine on non-MQA DACs, and they unfold just fine on MQA DACs. Therefore we know without a shadow of a doubt that they are are regular 16-bit Redbook PCM streams otherwise standard CD players would not be able to read them. IT Freak 1 Link to comment
IT Freak Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, DuckToller said: Did you buy these 24bit MQA's from there then and where they confirmed from Eudora as MQA-CD DL files or did they announce them as 24bit files on the invoice ??? Did they send you the wrong DL link ? Did you talk with the label about that offer & your experience before publishing your analysis here? And how did they respond ? Perhaps, the MQA-CD you intent to analyze and encode isn't yet available from them? If you find my suggestion strange please tell me ... The MQA website gives a link that clearly states "purchase the MQA-CD on the Eudora website". Tell me where I can find the MQA-CD using that link ??? If it's not available YET, then they shouldn't write it down and make such big announcements in the first place, don't you think? The only things I see are an SACD which is NOT MQA-CD and purchase options for download versions which are marked "MQA" (and not 24bit MQA) so we can keep on believing we are actually getting the MQA-CD quality and OMG it sounds great. People will actually believe that MQA-CD sounds that good, because they don't know they are listening to 24bit MQAs. What will be the next step? Replace all CDs in stores with MQA-CDs - not because they sound better but because they convinced us they sound just like 24bit MQAs with such tricks? lol Link to comment
Norton Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, IT Freak said: Tell me where I can find the MQA-CD using that link ??? looks to me that the CD layer on the hybrid SACD is MQA. See the footer on penultimate page of booklet. If I’m right, it may be confusing that they also describe this layer as “Standard CD Stereo” DuckToller 1 Link to comment
DuckToller Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 42 minutes ago, IT Freak said: People will actually believe that MQA-CD sounds that good, because they don't know they are listening to 24bit MQAs. What will be the next step? Replace all CDs in stores with MQA-CDs - not because they sound better but because they convinced us they sound just like 24bit MQAs with such tricks? lol Excuse me if that sounds a bit paranoid to my ears. I got the - perhaps limited - experience that most "people" or customers are more interested in music than format. - if there is no MQA available (which seems to be the case) they just look for another format (sigh!). - The ones intending to have MQA urgently will be deeply disappointed from this marketing hole. - The handful of blinded and brainwashed MQA follower who can't read properly a website or do not understand what they buy and hear may be tricked into an impulse buy.(so sad) - The ones who understand that the format isn't available there will either come back later or ... Seriously, I did not expect after all these controversies we have seen that MQA or the companies/actors close to the BS universe work with open and objective information to the customers. We have seen a long time ago that the "people" aren't their target customers. They are just there to believe in this "beautiful" format and trigger social media feed. Mutuality to political party BS is just accidentically. Link to comment
R1200CL Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: It's just what they do. Bob Stuart, Mike Jbara, and Ken Forsythe have been at it for years. Can’t we sue them ? If every anti-MQA person donate a certain low amount, maybe we can prove they aren’t serving is what we are paying for. Do we have an audio file lawyer among us ? Don Blas De Lezo 1 Link to comment
yahooboy Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 5 hours ago, IT Freak said: Gaëlle Solal : Tuhu : "MQA-CD" so it should be 16bit : Buy the flacs and decompress them to WAV. Exactly what do You mean when saying "decompress", what software is used? Link to comment
R1200CL Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Does anyone understand exactly what’s been explained here. I’m totally confused. (I can’t understand it’s technically possible to have a 24 bit rate inside a 16 bit pcm transmission stream). http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqaplayback/mqa-cd-examples/ When the transmission is restricted to 16 bits, as for example in an MQA CD, the decoder will maintain the output resolution at 24b, firstly to preserve the encoder’s enhanced quantisation, but also because there is more information in a decoded MQA CD than can be represented in a normal rectangular 44.4 kHz/16b PCM channel. The MQA decoder maintains 24-bit precision, but the 16b restriction means the underlying channel noise (but not necessarily the recording noise) can be higher, as shown in the following illustrative examples. http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqaplayback/origami-and-the-last-mile/ Once the recording has been ‘de-blurred’, MQA uses a process we call ‘Music Origami’ that focusses on maintaining the information in the orange triangle (plus a substantial safety margin), thereby making this large, high-resolution file both manageable, and compatible with any service or playback device. This section reviews the ‘origami’ used to make a single-speed (1s MQL) transmission file. As a first step, very high-frequency content (C) is ‘encapsulated’ and hidden away below the noise floor of B. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted December 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, R1200CL said: Does anyone understand exactly what’s been explained here. I’m totally confused. (I can’t understand it’s technically possible to have a 24 bit rate inside a 16 bit pcm transmission stream). http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqaplayback/mqa-cd-examples/ When the transmission is restricted to 16 bits, as for example in an MQA CD, the decoder will maintain the output resolution at 24b, firstly to preserve the encoder’s enhanced quantisation, but also because there is more information in a decoded MQA CD than can be represented in a normal rectangular 44.4 kHz/16b PCM channel. The MQA decoder maintains 24-bit precision, but the 16b restriction means the underlying channel noise (but not necessarily the recording noise) can be higher, as shown in the following illustrative examples. http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqaplayback/origami-and-the-last-mile/ Once the recording has been ‘de-blurred’, MQA uses a process we call ‘Music Origami’ that focusses on maintaining the information in the orange triangle (plus a substantial safety margin), thereby making this large, high-resolution file both manageable, and compatible with any service or playback device. This section reviews the ‘origami’ used to make a single-speed (1s MQL) transmission file. As a first step, very high-frequency content (C) is ‘encapsulated’ and hidden away below the noise floor of B. Causing confusion is what MQA Ltd does best. Where there's mystery there's margin. Ran, IT Freak, MikeyFresh and 2 others 3 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
mocenigo Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 15 hours ago, MikeyFresh said: Cutting edge I suppose, does it have a blue light to comfort you with a level of authentication hitherto unknown? I wonder how blue lights and green markers mix for physical MQA-CDs.... MikeyFresh 1 Link to comment
GUTB Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 I revisited a test album, P.I.Tschaikovsky op - 70 Souvenir de Florence - Unamas Strings Septet downloaded from highresaudio. I have two versions, a regular 192 kHz PCM and the MQA versions of each track. It's been a long time since I listened to it. It was as I remembered it: a very good recording in general, with the MQA version being a little better: a touch more mciro-detail, and strings are a touch more defined against the background. It's the sort of difference you wouldn't recognize unless you were critically listening for it. Maybe it would be more obvious with a better DAC and source. My headphone setup uses the Liberty (plus AliExpress linear power supply of course) and my main PC. DAC and amp are running off of a cheap Emotiva mains common noise filter bar. Also the MQA version of album causes the green light which means its an MQA stream but not fully authorized if that matters at all. I'll look around for another MQA album to compare. Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 This thread must have touched a nerve somewhere. It's brought out the REAL heavy hitters! MikeyFresh 1 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
R1200CL Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Here is one album both red book and MQA. Those that like to compare. I hope it’s the same master. Link to comment
Popular Post Cebolla Posted December 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, GUTB said: I'll look around for another MQA album to compare. No need to look too hard for some tracks - 2L has kindly provided some free downloads of 24 bit MQA 'original resolution', 16 bit MQA-CD and normal original CD (as well as some standard hi-res PCM & DSD) files that you can compare with the source they were actually produced from (mostly DXD): 2L High Resolution Music .:. free TEST BENCH DuckToller and Teresa 2 We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 17 minutes ago, R1200CL said: Here is one album both red book and MQA. Those that like to compare. I hope it’s the same master. 12 tracks...24 tracks. Is one of them the Rhino version? Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
UkPhil Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: 12 tracks...24 tracks. Is one of them the Rhino version? I believe both are Rhino releases but no guarantee the source is the same Link to comment
R1200CL Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Here it should be easy to hear a difference. Link to comment
Popular Post UkPhil Posted December 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2020 Jeez multiple versions 16bit PCM / 24 bit / 13 bit MQA / 15 bit pseudo MQA remasters / remixes / deluxe / the one copied from MP3 that no one knows about and the rare cassette remastered safety copy 8bit MQA de blurred Dolby C limited edition and you wonder why millions of people listen to Spotify 😂 And It’s only going to get worse when Universal and Sony deliver their contribution to this craziness. I need a lie down 🤪 MikeyFresh, lucretius and Don Blas De Lezo 1 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post lucretius Posted December 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2020 2 hours ago, R1200CL said: Does anyone understand exactly what’s been explained here. I’m totally confused. (I can’t understand it’s technically possible to have a 24 bit rate inside a 16 bit pcm transmission stream). Of course, you cannot get 24 bit out of 16 bit. I believe what Bob is implying is that the MQA decoder does its intermediate steps at 24 bit (I'm not saying this is true or false) -- nonetheless, in the case of 16 bit MQA, the decoder is fed 16 bit and the output is delivered as 16 bit. Because 24 bit audio gives more headroom (versus 16 bit audio), reducing the risk of clipping and a greater separation between the recorded audio and the noise floor, doing the intermediate steps in 24-bit theoretically provides more latitude with less probability of artifacts. However, in the case of 16 bit MQA, there does not appear to be any intermediate steps (recall that there is some transformation of the least significant bits in a 24 bit MQA file but these bits do not exist in a 16 bit MQA file). Another Bob lie? R1200CL and MikeyFresh 2 mQa is dead! Link to comment
Popular Post Mayfair Posted December 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, UkPhil said: Jeez multiple versions 16bit PCM / 24 bit / 13 bit MQA / 15 bit pseudo MQA remasters / remixes / deluxe / the one copied from MP3 that no one knows about and the rare cassette remastered safety copy 8bit MQA de blurred Dolby C limited edition and you wonder why millions of people listen to Spotify 😂 And It’s only going to get worse when Universal and Sony deliver their contribution to this craziness. I need a lie down 🤪 Exactly. And with all the confusion in labeling, I think I am going to hold off buying downloads until I'm sure I know that when I am considering purchasing music that is not labeled as MQA, I can rely that I'm not being sold stealth-MQA. Teresa and MikeyFresh 2 Link to comment
R1200CL Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Last example. If you have both Tidal and Qobuz subscription, it’s very often a good chance you find 16/44.1 on Qobuz and the MQA 16/44.1 version. So there is still plenty possibility to compare equal CD’s. Link to comment
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