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MQA is Vaporware


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3 hours ago, GUTB said:

MQA began as a way to identify and archive what makes hi-res music sound better.

No it didn't, and now you too are citing MQA marketing speak as facts. 

 

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

Based on research which showed that humans are much more sensitive to the time domain than our frequency domain acuity would otherwise suggest, Stuart theorized that it wasn't all the noise in hi-res sound, nor the high frequency information we can't discern, but rather the time-domain resolution is what we're actually picking up on.

Oh here we go again, temporal blurring  shall we?

 

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

However, what we CAN verify is that MQA has the capacity to sound significantly better than standard resolution audio if you use a a decent MQA-compatible DAC

We can't, not anecdotally, nor by means of reviewing the McGill study for example. 

 

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

Not all albums mind you, I've heard plenty which seem to sound no better, but there are those which are clearly, significantly, obviously better.

Those few that received a special new mastering, perhaps the white glove treatment? Don't bother answering, clearly you've chosen to ignore that aspect entirely despite it having been stated here a million times. A broken record.

 

Even in the cases that you think illustrate your point, isn't that just a subjective opinion vs. any real or broad confirmation, and quite possibly just different as opposed to "clearly, significantly, obviously better" 

 

3 hours ago, GUTB said:

Frankly they can be much better than any 88 kHz track I've ever heard.

How many releases do you have in 88.2kHz, a handful? Or are you speaking of upsampling?

no-mqa-sm.jpg

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5 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

1. If the stated purpose isn't correct, than what was the real purpose? How did you determine it?

2. I don't know what temporal blurring is. Time domain is the flip side of the frequency domain.

3. I'm not familiar with the "McGill study". I have verified through my own testing using Tidal, MQA-CDs and downloaded MQA albums that MQA has the potential to sound better. I downloaded multiple versions of an album I found with an pamplet which lists the engineers, studio and the audio formats (this is a multi-channel 192 kHz album). There's no reason to believe that MQA was mastered any differently than the stereo PCM version. I got a MQA-CD sampler from CDJapan which includes the CD version of the same MQA-CD tracks for comparison purposes. Now, mind you MQA-CD also uses UHQCD which is a new CD media technology that improves signal quality -- but in my testing with that format the quality increase is minor.

 

So, how did you verify that MQA didn't make a difference? DAC? System? Albums?

 

You've been drinking the contaminated brandy.

Boycott Warner

Boycott Tidal

Boycott Roon

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7 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

1. If the stated purpose isn't correct, than what was the real purpose? How did you determine it?

2. I don't know what temporal blurring is. Time domain is the flip side of the frequency domain.

3. I'm not familiar with the "McGill study". I have verified through my own testing using Tidal, MQA-CDs and downloaded MQA albums that MQA has the potential to sound better. I downloaded multiple versions of an album I found with an pamplet which lists the engineers, studio and the audio formats (this is a multi-channel 192 kHz album). There's no reason to believe that MQA was mastered any differently than the stereo PCM version. I got a MQA-CD sampler from CDJapan which includes the CD version of the same MQA-CD tracks for comparison purposes. Now, mind you MQA-CD also uses UHQCD which is a new CD media technology that improves signal quality -- but in my testing with that format the quality increase is minor.

 

So, how did you verify that MQA didn't make a difference? DAC? System? Albums?

 

Do you have any idea...........

Boycott Warner

Boycott Tidal

Boycott Roon

Boycott Lenbrook

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13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

1. If the stated purpose isn't correct, than what was the real purpose? How did you determine it?

You skipped right past the part about your "stated purpose" is just you parroting MQA marketing speak, didn't you. 

 

13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

2. I don't know what temporal blurring is.

Really? You seem so well versed in BS-speak, I can't imagine that one wouldn't have entered your vocabulary by now. Here's a good refresher on it, but not presented by BS of course:

 

MUSINGS/MEASUREMENTS: On "blurring" and why MQA probably worsens transient smearing.

 

TL : DR? That time domain bullshit you are trying to parrot is also old news, and the response to it was never rebutted in any way by his Royal Highness BS, nor the rest of the MQA cadre. 

 

13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

3. I'm not familiar with the "McGill study"

You might wish to familiarize yourself with it.

 

13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I have verified through my own testing using Tidal, MQA-CDs and downloaded MQA albums that MQA has the potential to sound better.

Sounds very sophisticated.

 

13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

There's no reason to believe that MQA was mastered any differently than the stereo PCM version.

No? Did you read the posts earlier about a great deal on a bridge for sale? It even generates toll revenue for the owner.

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

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31 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I got a MQA-CD sampler from CDJapan which includes the CD version of the same MQA-CD tracks for comparison purposes.

You bought an MQA-CD player? Thats hysterically funny. Congrats on that, you've joined a worldwide sample size of what, 5-10 other people? Cutting edge I suppose, does it have a blue light to comfort you with a level of authentication hitherto unknown?

 

 

 

 

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

Boycott Warner Music Group

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6 hours ago, GUTB said:

However, what we CAN verify is that MQA has the capacity to sound significantly better than standard resolution audio if you use a a decent MQA-compatible DAC

If I am not mistaken, you've listed the Holo Audio Cyan and Schiit Yggdrasil as your recent DACs. Both aren't the pinnacle of a "decent MQA-compatible DAC" afaik.
Thus, makes me wonder how you've achieved your verification of MQA's capacity???

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Just now, DuckToller said:

If I am not mistaken, you've listed the Holo Audio Cyan and Schiit Yggdrasil as your recent DACs. Both aren't the pinnacle of a "decent MQA-compatible DAC" afaik.
Thus, makes me wonder how you've achieved your verification of MQA's capacity???

 

I was an early adopter of MQA. When it was released to the public I first got a  Meridian Explorer 2. I wasn't able to hear any benefit with MQA from this DAC. I got a Dragonfly Red next and patiently waited for its MQA support firmware update. With the Dragonfly I was able to hear the improvement from MQA for the first time. This wasn't a real DAC however being USB dongle type using a tiny IC amp etc, really lacked dynamics. Next I picked up a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital, and again I heard the benefit of MQA. Although it was better than than the Dragonfly, once again the dynamics were lacking so it was ultimately an unpleasing DAC. For a while after this I was upgrading my record system, then trying to bring my digital up to the level of of my analog so MQA got back-burnered. Finally I got a Myek Liberty which unlike most MQA DACs can do the decoding on all inputs allowing the use of MQA-CD. I still have the Liberty today and it's hooked up to my headphone system. The Cyan was for experimenting with R2R DSD decoding, and Yggdrasil is my latest and probably final attempt to bring my digital up to the level of my analog. That's on hold right now as I'm burning in a Purifi class D amp and my main amp until recently, an Odyssey Stratos, is broken and my filler amps just aren't as good. I tried to fix the Stratos but to no avail, I may have no choice but to send it in for service, possibly upgrade to something better. So things are on hold right now.

 

If the Yggdrasil can bridge the gap, I'll just have to give up on MQA in my main system and leave it for my headphone setup. If the Yggdrasil doesn't help, maybe I'll upgrade to a Manhattan II and bring back MQA, MQA-CD while my analog is for critical listening / when I feel like it.

 

So yes, I have made some effort to validate MQA's results.

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43 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Finally I got a Myek Liberty which unlike most MQA DACs can do the decoding on all inputs allowing the use of MQA-CD. I still have the Liberty today and it's hooked up to my headphone system.

Cutting edge I suppose, does it have a blue light to comfort you with a level of authentication hitherto unknown?

 

Have your listening trials confirmed this is exactly what the artist (or perhaps the "studio") originally intended, and that's been officially "authenticated" in association with the record label, who have carefully and accurately conveyed the spirit of the original master recording to both TIDAL and/or some wide ranging  examples of MQA-CD?

 

In what percentage of albums have MQA confirmed or "authenticated" anything at all with the recording artist, or even the original recording engineer or mastering engineer, versus used an unknown source of unknown provenance for batch encoding in the cloud as the esteemed LS one proudly described here? This might also be considered as so-called white glove vs. hamburger batch encoding.

 

In what percentage of cases have the record labels used a legal/contractual language that in many instances is decades old, to pretend to be the defacto final arbiter of what particular source or mastering or proprietary distribution format such as MQA is "what the artist or studio intended" and how have the said artists and studios actually been compensated for this new amazing quality streaming distribution of their material? Same old lame rip-off contract with the artists that there ever was?

 

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

Boycott Warner Music Group

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Currently I live in Turkey and suddenly I lost access to Tidal, it is blocked here!
Apparently Tidal is trying to acquire a license to provide its streaming service in Turkey.

So, I have started using Spotify Premium. I must say, it is so much better in terms of choice of music and UI. No hi-res streaming (best is 320Kbs and it does sound quite reasonable), but Spotify allows me to access my local files as well, where I have lots of hi-res music.
Since I don't much care for MQA I don't miss Tidal one bit.
I won't be worrying about MQA format until it becomes the only format available (I am sure this is what it was designed for ultimately).

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Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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26 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

 

The way Warner, MQA, and Tidal implemented this is leaving questions in many peoples minds.

But then, look at MQA's actions since it's inception. Nothing is forthright and in the open. It has all been smoke and mirrors.

Exactly. The Warner MQA pile is a good example. One converted redbook flacs into MQA flacs but we had NO WAY to compare as they removed the redbooks while doing so.

And I know exactly why :

I still have some redbook flacs on my PC and they sound MUCH better than the 16b 44.1k MQAs that are online now. If you want to make a 16b 44.1k sound exactly the same as the 16b 44.1k master, you just copy it. You don't sacrifice bytes to make an MQA emblem and sample rate appear on your DAC and then apply some upsampling and filters any decent DAC could do.

(I am not talking about 24b MQAs I can live with those).

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2 hours ago, IT Freak said:

Can you explain then why MQA is still showing the studio dot from studio MQAs when the lower byte of a 24bit MQA is chopped of ?

 

Only the 0-22.05/24 kHz frequency range encoded in the first 13-15 most significant bits is authenticated. The 8 least significant bits (of a 24 bit file), which also include the encoding for the 22.05/24 - 44.1/48 kHz frequency range, do not affect authentication and thus can be altered and the "blue light" will remain on.  Bob has already admitted this.

 

2 hours ago, IT Freak said:

For a real MQA-CD (16bit) every 3rd byte would be zero.

 

No.  MQA-CD (i.e. 16 bit MQA) files are not encoded in the way you think.

 

mQa is dead!

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39 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

Only the 0-22.05/24 kHz frequency range encoded in the first 13-15 most significant bits is authenticated. The 8 least significant bits (of a 24 bit file), which also include the encoding for the 22.05/24 - 44.1/48 kHz frequency range, do not affect authentication and thus can be altered and the "blue light" will remain on.  Bob has already admitted this.

 

 

No.  MQA-CD (i.e. 16 bit MQA) files are not encoded in the way you think.

 


No 16bit MQA IS encoded like I said.

I decompressed several 16bit MQA's that were packed in 24bit FLACS to 24bit WAVs and every single one decoded like this :
xx xx 00 xx xx 00 xx xx 00 (*)

Every 24bit MQA in 24bit FLACS decoded to 24bit WAVs like thise  
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx

These "MQA-CDs" from Eudora should be 16 bit as they call them MQA-CDs and they should also decode like that (*). Well they DON'T. They decode as
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx which proves those are not MQA-CDs but 24bit ones. 

P.S. The 24bit WAV plays fully decoded to my MQA-DAC (MQA symbol etc)
The 16bit WAV (where every 3rd byte is chopped off) as well (same)
(but it sounds worse according to me; if it had no effect at all then why all the origami stuff in the first place ? Then one could make ALL MQA's 16bit and make them half the size)

I threw both MQA's 24bit and 16bit one into the MQATagRenamer app and both were marked "completed" and put in a folder named "MQA" just below it with the extension changed from flac to mqa.flac.
So my job was bitperfect !



Your turn.

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2 hours ago, IT Freak said:

For a real MQA-CD (16bit) every 3rd byte would be zero...

 

Any CD must contain 16bit PCM samples, including MQA CD. It cannot contain 24bit samples because the Redbook standard does not support it so it would be an unknown format for CD players.

If you would rip a CD and convert its 16bit PCM content to 24bit PCM content then you would get 24bit samples with lowest 8 bits zeroed. But you cannot burn 24bit content to CD medium.

 

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4 minutes ago, IT Freak said:

that were packed in 24bit FLACS

That's 16bit content in 24bit FLAC, therefore the zeros. Any CD can contain only 16bit samples. If you would rip MQA CD, you would not get those zeros.

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1 minute ago, bogi said:

 

Any CD must contain 16bit PCM samples, including MQA CD. It cannot contain 24bit samples because the Redbook standard does not support it so it would be an unknown format for CD players.

If you would rip a CD and convert its 16bit PCM content to 24bit PCM content then you would get 24bit samples with lowest 8 bits zeroed. But you cannot burn 24bit content to CD medium.

 

That's what I'm saying. The MQA files from Eudora are NOT 16bit, they are 24bit. So they are cheating and let us listen to 24bit ones that CAN NEVER be put on a CD unless they chop off the lower byte. MQA is constructed like that : it still plays if you throw away every 3rd (lower) byte 
So ABC ABC ABC becomes AB AB AB

 

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7 minutes ago, IT Freak said:

I decompressed several 16bit MQA's were packed in 24bit FLACS

Important part is "that were packed in 24bit FLACS" - that packing is the reason of zeros. Please understand that CD medium does not contain packed FLAC, it has nothing to do with FLAC. Furthermore, the 16bit samples are not compressed on CD medium.

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6 minutes ago, IT Freak said:

Yes, MQA-CD IS 16bit by definition... they deliver the Eudora tracks in 24bit FLACs. So every 3rd byte should be zero in the decompressed PCM stream... and IT IS NOT ! So they lie !

I didn't say they don't lie. :)

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5 minutes ago, bogi said:

Important part is "that were packed in 24bit FLACS" - that packing is the reason of zeros. Please understand that CD medium does not contain packed FLAC, it has nothing to do with FLAC. Furthermore, the 16bit samples are not compressed on CD medium.

Omg... there are NO zeroes in the so called MQA-CD tracks when decompressing the 24bit FLAC to a 24bit PCM stream. So those are NOT MQA-CD tracks but 24bit MQAs. Why do they release MQA-CD in a 24bit FLAC in the first place ? That is what made me doing further investigation...
and the reason is they didnt put MQA-CD in it but 24bit MQA (which sounds much better).

They want to fool us. It doesn't work for me ;-)

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14 minutes ago, bogi said:

I didn't say they don't lie. :)

I know a CD only holds the PCM stream and no flacs. I look at the stream AFTER decompressing the 24b flac to 24b WAV which holds the 24b PCM stream. A redbook CD can only hold 16b PCM streams... so every 3rd byte should be zero in the 24b PCM stream and it is not. MQA is advertising 16bit MQA-CD by using (higher quality) 24bit MQA.

Wish Mansr was here... he understands.

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