KeenObserver Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 29 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: Getting this back in track. Project Panther Bidco’s strike off has been withdrawn. Maybe financials will soon be available. At the Los Angeles & Orange County Audio Society gala last Sunday I talked with a Meridian dealer. He was/is a big enough dealer to have one year won a car, a Mini. He said he told the Meridian folks that compression didn’t have a place in high end audio. Besides Tidal, any large streaming services using MQA? In their financial posting, MQA Ltd stated that they were still a "Going Concern" because they expected to receive further financing by the end of November. Any word on the further financing? Is this something they would have to disclose? Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post KeenObserver Posted December 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: Getting this back in track. Project Panther Bidco’s strike off has been withdrawn. Maybe financials will soon be available. At the Los Angeles & Orange County Audio Society gala last Sunday I talked with a Meridian dealer. He was/is a big enough dealer to have one year won a car, a Mini. He said he told the Meridian folks that compression didn’t have a place in high end audio. The window of opportunity for a compression scheme was ten or fifteen years ago. The value of MQA to the studios is that it is a proprietary system with DRM capabilities. The question now is do the studios want to push it? The opinion makers did not create enough of a demand for MQA that people were clamoring for it. In fact, their efforts were laughable. Harley made a fool of himself. Rt66indierock and MikeyFresh 1 1 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post John Dyson Posted December 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 5:15 PM, fas42 said: Incorrect, John 🙂. If you haven't heard how some archaic recording emerges from a cartoony mess, to rise up and present a remarkable capture of real people playing their hearts out, when a system reaches a high enough standard - then you have my sympathy, 😉. The truth is that enough information has been captured for the ear/brain to compensate for all the recording deficiences - but this can only happen when the playback chain doesn't then also add a swath of aberrations. Hmmm... If you haven't heard the huge number of bad quality recordings (most all pop, even stuff like AP's Nat King Cole and even ALL digital supertramp releases that I have -- only some vinyl meets the challenge.) Sorry, but digital is great, but what they often put on the media is pretty dodgy. If you cannot hear the problems -- that is okay, enjoy what you have!!! But, a lot of people have reasonably good equipment, perceptive hearing and many even have better listening skills than I do. Don't criticize those who actually know that they are being sold poorer quality than what really should be. MQA would have only made the situation worse and obfuscated. The problems can be heard EASILY on moderately good headphones or very good speaker system, but it IS hard to hear the problems unless you have heard the good stuff on reasonable quality equipment. Good stuff will spoil you immediately -- if you don't have a need otherwise, keep listening to the Victrola!! The situation is disgusting because good (I mean, really good) quality is easy to create/distribute, just that the bean counters know that people will purchase the noisy, distorted stuff nowadays. Most people are used to it. Some people even LIKE compressed and distorted material -- you might be one of them. That is okay, please refer to the comment in bold above. Just this second, I ran the well received 'Crime of the Century' through the decoder with even *more* astounding results. Wish I had the master tape or a copy BEFORE DolbyA touched it!!! I enjoy the music as much as trying to improve the availability of HIGH QUALITY material. Some people don't want the higher quality, and I have mentioned the helpfulness of dynamic range compresison on lower quality equipment and/or in low dynamic range enviornments. Reasonably good equipment, good/perceptive hearing and an envrionment that is conducive to presenting the performance can easily expose the problems in many recordings nowadays. If you have a Victrola, and enjoy listening, I am not taking anything away from you -- likewise, if you don't care about the sound as much as many people do -- then enjoy what you have!!! The beancounters are selling YOU what YOU want. I feel cheated, however, and many others do also. John Currawong and Teresa 2 Link to comment
ShawnC Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said: At the Los Angeles & Orange County Audio Society gala last Sunday I talked with a Meridian dealer. He was/is a big enough dealer to have one year won a car, a Mini. He said he told the Meridian folks that compression didn’t have a place in high end audio. My recent adventures at a dealer in your neck of the woods mentioned that they weren't too confident in Meridian staying in business much longer (take it with a grain of salt). They wouldn't elaborate but unlike a Porsche 911 which looks much the same every new release but still refines itself with technology and mechanical prowess, Meridian has become very stagnate with there current lineup, only adding bespoke color offerings for their equipment. BTW how is Meridian doing financially these days? They still have that car market in Land Rovers and Jaguars right? crenca 1 Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel R-528 Sub Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: Besides Tidal, any large streaming services using MQA? In their financial posting, MQA Ltd stated that they were still a "Going Concern" because they expected to receive further financing by the end of November. Any word on the further financing? Is this something they would have to disclose? Well, Tidal is a small service so no. The only other streaming service using MQA is a Chinese service that none of the Chinese National Speed Skating Team uses. The last people from the mainland I've been around. I've haven't heard anything about MQA funding but the reporting requirements have a lag time. Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: Well, Tidal is a small service so no. The only other streaming service using MQA is a Chinese service that none of the Chinese National Speed Skating Team uses. The last people from the mainland I've been around. I've haven't heard anything about MQA funding but the reporting requirements have a lag time. I don't think the Chinese people "choose" anything. It is chosen for them. I cannot see the Chinese paying anyone for a proprietary system. They will pirate it or clone it if it is useful to them. Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 How much Chinese music is available in MQA? Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: I don't think the Chinese people "choose" anything. It is chosen for them. I cannot see the Chinese paying anyone for a proprietary system. They will pirate it or clone it if it is useful to them. I would think they could have their choice of which music streaming service they listen to. Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: How much Chinese music is available in MQA? Possibly a decent amount. I'll try to find out. Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I saw an article about MQA from a year or two ago. It stated that one of the benefits for the consumer was it saved space. I then saw an add for a fourteen Terabyte drive. I made a rough calculation and came up with the figure that you could store nine months worth of 24/96 uncompressed WAV on this disc. If you listened to music for your entire waking time you would be forced to listen to music that you heard a year earlier. It all reminds me that I have a five megabyte winchester drive stored away on a shelf. it is the size of a small appliance. I thought the twenty meg drive in my 286 was huge. I remember buying a one Gig 5 1/4" drive for $500. All this is to say that compression for the consumer is inconsequential. lucretius 1 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post FredericV Posted December 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 12/17/2019 at 9:09 PM, KeenObserver said: I saw an article about MQA from a year or two ago. It stated that one of the benefits for the consumer was it saved space. I then saw an add for a fourteen Terabyte drive. I made a rough calculation and came up with the figure that you could store nine months worth of 24/96 uncompressed WAV on this disc. If you listened to music for your entire waking time you would be forced to listen to music that you heard a year earlier. It all reminds me that I have a five megabyte winchester drive stored away on a shelf. it is the size of a small appliance. I thought the twenty meg drive in my 286 was huge. I remember buying a one Gig 5 1/4" drive for $500. All this is to say that compression for the consumer is inconsequential. I bought several WD 8 TB external USB drives which contain their helium filled SATA drive, for 134 euro each. Outside black friday it's around 160 euro. When you buy the Exos enterprise version of the Seagate 8TB which is rated 24/7, it's less than 250 euro. In Belgium the standard cable ISP based business subscription had 200 mbit and a monthly limit of 3 TB, after which you would drop to 1 mbit. As a content consumer, you must do some effort to saturate 3 TB within one month. Since 8th of december, they removed that limit and it's truly unlimited, and they also increased the speed to 300 mbit for the same price. So why can ISP's now start giving away unlimited subscriptions and higher data rates at the same price? So you can see where this is going: a very long time ago, MP3 was a solution to a problem: you could not download a full WAV album using a dialup or ISDN connection within an acceptable timeframe. Even a flac or ZIP version of those WAV files would be a problem, unless you had a very fast leased line at the time (e.g. university or research facility). So hence MP3 was the solution in the 90's, for the same reason we had video cd instead of blu-ray quality: a limited channel capacity or bandwidth. Now we can download a full flac album in ~10 seconds (in my case it's 33.9MB/s). # wget http://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/archive.parrotsec.org/misc/1000MB.bin ... 1000MB.bin 100%[=====================>] 1000M 33.9MB/s in 30s 2019-12-19 09:28:21 (33.4 MB/s) - ‘1000MB.bin’ saved [1048576000/1048576000] # du -h -s --si 1000MB.bin 1.1G 1000MB.bin If I pay a little more to my ISP, I get gigabit and then I can download them each in 3 seconds. You can see where this is going .... The compression benefit of MQA in a world which no longer needs MP3, and which does not have an actual channel and storage capacity issue, does not need a proprietary crypto DRM audio solution with 17/96 of internal resolution + upsampling and fake resolution indication, when the bandwdith for the real thing is here The cheapest DSL subscription can already stream real hi-res, there goed your shelf life Archimago, MikeyFresh and Nikhil 1 2 Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing. Link to comment
Daccord Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 7 hours ago, FredericV said: The compression benefit of MQA in a world which no longer needs MP3, and which does not have an actual channel and storage capacity issue, does not need a proprietary crypto DRM audio solution with 17/96 of internal resolution + upsampling and fake resolution indication, when the bandwdith for the real thing is here MQA is already taking steps to address this. I bought a 2.5GB download from 7digital two days ago and the transfer took 3 hours 8 minutes. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Daccord said: MQA is already taking steps to address this. I bought a 2.5GB download from 7digital two days ago and the transfer took 3 hours 8 minutes. The cool thing about purchasing downloads is you only have to download it once and go through the pain once. With MQA you have to go through the pain every time when streaming. troubleahead 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Daccord Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: The cool thing about purchasing downloads is you only have to download it once and go through the pain once. With MQA you have to go through the pain every time when streaming. I bought the download because Tidal streaming was screwing up, as happens from time to time. My joke was that MQA must have a deal with 7digital to hobble download speeds. That not may be the real reason, but downloads from 7digital have been really slow for a while now. Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Daccord said: I bought the download because Tidal streaming was screwing up, as happens from time to time. My joke was that MQA must have a deal with 7digital to hobble download speeds. That not may be the real reason, but downloads from 7digital have been really slow for a while now. Maybe they hit their "fair use" bandwidth limit. Thuaveta, lucretius and marce 3 Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Daccord said: I bought the download because Tidal streaming was screwing up, as happens from time to time. My joke was that MQA must have a deal with 7digital to hobble download speeds. That not may be the real reason, but downloads from 7digital have been really slow for a while now. 7digital is struggling to survive. They lost Onkyo Music about the same time they got additional capital. Link to comment
bobbmd Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 @The Computer Audiophile why hasn’t this idiotic thread been closed considering all the concern about demenor(?SIC)/civility etc let alone logic ? I mean who really gives a Rat’s Ass and who has the time to ponder and worry over ‘how many angels can sit on a head of a pin’? Happy Holidays and New Year I KNOW—bobb — don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong—sorry couldn’t resist or restrain myself JoeWhip, daverich4, Mayfair and 8 others 2 9 Link to comment
Popular Post marce Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, bobbmd said: @The Computer Audiophile why hasn’t this idiotic thread been closed considering all the concern about demenor(?SIC)/civility etc let alone logic ? I mean who really gives a Rat’s Ass and who has the time to ponder and worry over ‘how many angels can sit on a head of a pin’? Happy Holidays and New Year I KNOW—bobb — don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong—sorry couldn’t resist or restrain myself Civility? And why should the thread be closed, there is a lot of good information... Audio claims are not carved in a stone tablet, they can and should be questioned and discussed in the light of current science, engineering acoustic knowledge and understanding of perception in a civil manner. This and another recent post on another thread, point to a underlying move to stifle any discussion, civil or otherwise that does not follow a certain formula, or more succinctly "do not question". KeenObserver, Rt66indierock, askat1988 and 8 others 7 2 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Archimago Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 22 hours ago, bobbmd said: @The Computer Audiophile why hasn’t this idiotic thread been closed considering all the concern about demenor(?SIC)/civility etc let alone logic ? I mean who really gives a Rat’s Ass and who has the time to ponder and worry over ‘how many angels can sit on a head of a pin’? Happy Holidays and New Year I KNOW—bobb — don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong—sorry couldn’t resist or restrain myself What's so "idiotic" about this thread? What's so uncivil? What's so illogical? Isn't audiophilia already an obsessive pursuit and to most of the world a bunch of geek guys ruminating about angels on pins (eg. do I need $$$ cables, do I need hi-res, do I need those beautiful cable risers???)? Perhaps you need to ask yourself what you have invested in this hobby (to MQA?) to think any of this is so disturbing as to not be able to resist yourself from such comments. Not everyone will like reading about the truth. And expressing dissent is not uncivil or some kind of treachery. crenca, Mayfair, troubleahead and 6 others 4 4 1 Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile. Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism. R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Paul R Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Archimago said: What's so "idiotic" about this thread? What's so uncivil? What's so illogical? Isn't audiophilia already an obsessive pursuit and to most of the world a bunch of geek guys ruminating about angels on pins (eg. do I need $$$ cables, do I need hi-res, do I need those beautiful cable risers???)? Perhaps you need to ask yourself what you have invested in this hobby (to MQA?) to think any of this is so disturbing as to not be able to resist yourself from such comments. Not everyone will like reading about the truth. And expressing dissent is not uncivil or some kind of treachery. You have to be kidding right? You of all people have not really bought into the KoolAid of this thread have you? I have been trying not to post or say anything, to avoid becoming irritated, but you really disappoint me. The science in the thread is great. The personalities in this thread are ruining the whole audiophile world, and driving people away. (shrug). Believe what you will, ,have a great and Merry Christmas anyway! -Paul mansr, JSeymour, esldude and 8 others 1 10 Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, Archimago said: Perhaps you need to ask yourself what you have invested in this hobby (to MQA?) to think any of this is so disturbing as to not be able to resist yourself from such comments. I’d like to think Bob had just had a rough day and let loose on a thread that doesn’t thrill him. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. 17 minutes ago, Paul R said: The science in the thread is great. The personalities in this thread are ruining the whole audiophile world, and driving people away. (shrug). The science is great. I agree Paul. I really wish it was possible to get where we are without the incivility. I believe we would’ve got here way quicker without the incivility. Some of the personalities are abrasive and I’d prefer they acted differently, but I’d never say they are ruining the whole audiophile world. JSeymour, esldude, tmtomh and 5 others 7 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post daverich4 Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Paul R said: You have to be kidding right? You of all people have not really bought into the KoolAid of this thread have you? I have been trying not to post or say anything, to avoid becoming irritated, but you really disappoint me. The science in the thread is great. The personalities in this thread are ruining the whole audiophile world, and driving people away. (shrug). Believe what you will, ,have a great and Merry Christmas anyway! -Paul Haven’t seen you in a while. Nice to have you back. kumakuma, sandyk and 4est 3 Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 On 12/24/2019 at 8:21 AM, marce said: there is a lot of good information... The good technical info isn't in this Vaporware thread. It is here: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/mqa-a-review-of-controversies-concerns-and-cautions-r701/ And here: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30572-mqa-technical-analysis/ Teresa 1 Link to comment
mansr Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, asdf1000 said: The good technical info isn't in this Vaporware thread. It is here: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/mqa-a-review-of-controversies-concerns-and-cautions-r701/ And here: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30572-mqa-technical-analysis/ There's quite a lot in this thread too. tmtomh 1 Link to comment
Popular Post bobbmd Posted December 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2019 @Paul R and @The Computer Audiophile Paul thanks for saying in a nicer way what I said or tried to convey and no Chris I wasn't having a rough day BUT like I said "I stuck my nose where it didn't belong" and should have kept my feelings to myself--I just contributed to the overload of incivility and apologize to anyone I might have offended(guess the abrasive comments and incivility become catching...) I hope all you and yours had a Happy Holiday and have a good New Year. bobbmd sandyk and The Computer Audiophile 2 Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now