Ralf11 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: purchasing decisions for HiFi are just like those of all other consumer products. as I've said before, and started threads on, ergonomics, control functionality, and esthetics count I generally want a mix for myself - and I weight SQ highly I do think that Accuphase makes the most esthetic looking electronics gear, and the SQ is very high as well. but discussion on an audio forum tends to center around SQ or euphonics Link to comment
Popular Post MikeyFresh Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 56 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: as I've said before, and started threads on, ergonomics, control functionality, and esthetics count That they do, and no one person can decide for all the exact value on offer for any given product. Pride in ownership also plays a factor there, just as with cars, bicycles, watches, cameras, pens etc... 56 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: I generally want a mix for myself - and I weight SQ highly Most people on forums like this would be similar, how much any perceived SQ difference is worth in terms of cost is a highly subjective and personal thing, and no one does any real involved blind or ABX testing prior to making purchase decisions. Now back to our regularly scheduled Master Quality Adulterated programming. STC and Ralf11 2 Boycott HDtracks Boycott Lenbrook Boycott Warner Music Group Link to comment
Popular Post Rt66indierock Posted December 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Daccord said: Trusting your ears is a good way to be fooled. Ralf11, daverich4 and Sal1950 2 1 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 12 hours ago, KeenObserver said: Here we have alluded to the fact that high end sound is a limited market. Is it shrinking or growing? Can a profit be made? What is the future of high end sound? The market has clearly established that very few people are willing to pay more than $9.99 a month for streaming music, and also not for quality above 320k mp3. Spotify premium sounds fine to them, and they see no advantage in anything else. This includes most well off people, even those with good playback systems. The audiophile streaming segment is a niche. Time will tell if it can be sustained at all. Even at CD quality. LowMidHigh, esldude, John Dyson and 1 other 1 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 6 hours ago, STC said: But what would you do when a person insists that changing the spark plugs and tyres can make the car do 200mph? Do you point out or you should just allow him to enjoy what he is doing? Don't forget the linear power supply for the ECU. lucretius, yahooboy, Thuaveta and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 8 hours ago, STC said: But what would you do when a person insists that changing the spark plugs and tyres can make the car do 200mph? Do you point out or you should just allow him to enjoy what he is doing? Kenny123 made a good point. I started this hobby like everyone else. Purchased power conditioners, exotic cables and equipments. I did hear the difference. I perceived better soundstage. It was real enough for me until you experience something else. We all are speaking from our POV. Truth in audio may not be compatible or comfortable when our joy is the hobby of audio reproduction as best as what we think is the right way. If someone insists spark plug make their car go 200 mph, I’m totally fine with it. I’m not big brother, a crusader, or a buzz killer. This is a fun hobby. Nobody is saving babies or killing puppies. Live and let listen. 4est and Teresa 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
fas42 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: If someone insists spark plug make their car go 200 mph, I’m totally fine with it. I’m not big brother, a crusader, or a buzz killer. This is a fun hobby. Nobody is saving babies or killing puppies. Live and let listen. The audio equivalent in fact is that the handbrake never releases beyond 50%; or the gear selector says D, but it never come out of 3rd - and the driver is blissfully unaware that these 'stupid' maladjustments are what are holding back the vehicle's performance ... Link to comment
Popular Post STC Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: If someone insists spark plug make their car go 200 mph, I’m totally fine with it. I’m not big brother, a crusader, or a buzz killer. This is a fun hobby. Nobody is saving babies or killing puppies. Live and let listen. Perhaps a new thread for those disagreeing. The Computer Audiophile and MikeyFresh 2 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
Popular Post John Dyson Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, fas42 said: The audio equivalent in fact is that the handbrake never releases beyond 50%; or the gear selector says D, but it never come out of 3rd - and the driver is blissfully unaware that these 'stupid' maladjustments are what are holding back the vehicle's performance ... Most of what is holding back audio quality is the bad gas (poor quality recordings), the better cars are capable of very good performance, but the 47 octane is really hard on the total performance. Sure, the better cars with good design will sound marginally better than lower end stuff, but is still liimited by the source quality. (The problem isn't just DolbyA on the older stuff, but a myriad of other factors.) John Ralf11, Teresa, esldude and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment
Popular Post Daccord Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Rt66indierock said: Trusting your ears is a good way to be fooled. The post was intended as a humorous response to Crenca's statement just above. I found the 1954 RCA sampler album in my father's collection, and the dated expression "high fidelity" made me think of it. But as long as you're going to make a point, trusting your ears is a good way to avoid being fooled by the BS put forward by the audiophile press in support of MQA. When I was a young man I got talked into buying an expensive pair of "directional" interconnects for the turntable to preamp. After a move I realized I had been using them installed in the wrong direction for a while and had failed to hear a difference. I never again got fooled into buying another audiophile voodoo tweak. I think there is a distinction that needs to be made between "High End" and "High Fidelity". The former is the luxury market (encompassing the consumer & the suppliers) and the latter is what guys like esldude, Teresa and esldude 1 1 Link to comment
fas42 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 8 hours ago, John Dyson said: Most of what is holding back audio quality is the bad gas (poor quality recordings), the better cars are capable of very good performance, but the 47 octane is really hard on the total performance. Sure, the better cars with good design will sound marginally better than lower end stuff, but is still liimited by the source quality. (The problem isn't just DolbyA on the older stuff, but a myriad of other factors.) John Incorrect, John 🙂. If you haven't heard how some archaic recording emerges from a cartoony mess, to rise up and present a remarkable capture of real people playing their hearts out, when a system reaches a high enough standard - then you have my sympathy, 😉. The truth is that enough information has been captured for the ear/brain to compensate for all the recording deficiences - but this can only happen when the playback chain doesn't then also add a swath of aberrations. Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Daccord said: The post was intended as a humorous response to Crenca's statement just above. I found the 1954 RCA sampler album in my father's collection, and the dated expression "high fidelity" made me think of it. But as long as you're going to make a point, trusting your ears is a good way to avoid being fooled by the BS put forward by the audiophile press in support of MQA. Only if the listening is done under blinded bias controlled conditions. The brain is too easy to influence if it knows what it is listening to. "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Popular Post daverich4 Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 16 hours ago, Rt66indierock said: Trusting your ears is a good way to be fooled. Fooled into what? Enjoying yourself listening to music? lucretius, fas42, Teresa and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment
Thuaveta Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 20 hours ago, crenca said: I think Archi and esldude is on to something important: We appear to be at the point, and probably have been for a while, that most in "the industry" are actually existentially threatened by High Fidelity, because they are so $dependant$ upon High End. Stereophile, TAS, and many (most?) manufacturers are now really about High End, and (given the state of underlying audio tech) anti High Fidelity. This related comment on ASR is intriguing. @The Computer Audiophile, my hunch would be that reaching out to whomever wrote it, and see if they'd be interested in expanding on it, might make for some really interesting reading. It's tangentially related to what @crenca was saying, but some people might find this audioholics video of interest. There's a reminder of the Lexicon Oppo rebrand in there. esldude 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 26 minutes ago, Thuaveta said: This related comment on ASR is intriguing. @The Computer Audiophile, my hunch would be that reaching out to whomever wrote it, and see if they'd be interested in expanding on it, might make for some really interesting reading. It's tangentially related to what @crenca was saying, but some people might find this audioholics video of interest. There's a reminder of the Lexicon Oppo rebrand in there. If anyone has an hour, can you watch the video and let us know if there are points of interest? Sounds interesting but I don’t have the time right now. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Thuaveta Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: If anyone has an hour, can you watch the video and let us know if there are points of interest? Sounds interesting but I don’t have the time right now. from memory, intro about the whole "best of lists", LaSalla talks about how Google appears to favor aggregate, best-of-list reviews and how those are used by shills, quite a bit of talk on shills on amazon, the lexicon thing is about 10 minutes in (just checked that), there's talk about the tension between marketing as a profession and credibility, in the context of the evolution of what's trusted going from mags to fora to amazon reviews, a discussion of how a critical review is protected speech and how some manufacturers pull advertising in retaliation for not stellar reviews, how reviewers seem to "borrow" equipment for indefinite periods of time, with some of the usual "we're awesome" type stuff woven in with a discussion of how audioholics' measurements generated a healthy discussion to develop common power rating standards for HT amps. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
jcbenten Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I started but neither contributor has a personality. When the one on the left started on South Africa mis-using/stealing his Copyright for Audioholics I bailed. The ASR comment was much more informative and a good read. QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear RAX43 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBTouch ->SABAJ A10d->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: iPeng (iPad Air & iPhone); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: iPhone 12 ProMax & Radio Paradise or NAS streaming; Sony NWZ ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Interesting. MQA Ltd and Project Panther Bidco list the same address on their Companies House posting. Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, KeenObserver said: Interesting. MQA Ltd and Project Panther Bidco list the same address on their Companies House posting. A PO box in Panama? The Computer Audiophile, lucretius and Thuaveta 3 Link to comment
shtf Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 10:34 PM, Rt66indierock said: Trusting your ears is a good way to be fooled. Absolutely. Well, unless one has spent time developing trustworthy-enough ears. If for sake of argument we switch our sense from hearing to sight, might it be just a little bit of an oxymoron to be an aficionado of the fine arts while simultaneously lacking trustworthy eyes? The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt. and extreme forms of vibration mgmt., the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of mechanical energy. Wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy. -Me Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Does anyone have sales figures for MQA CD's? Is anyone actually buying them? Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted December 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2019 59 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: Does anyone have sales figures for MQA CD's? 7 lucretius, KeenObserver, Sal1950 and 2 others 1 4 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
mansr Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, KeenObserver said: Does anyone have sales figures for MQA CD's? Is anyone actually buying them? I have failed to find any on the pirate sites, whatever that indicates. crenca 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted December 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, mansr said: I have failed to find any on the pirate sites, whatever that indicates. Only honest people get involved with MQA 🤣 lucretius, semente, crenca and 4 others 7 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Getting this back in track. Project Panther Bidco’s strike off has been withdrawn. Maybe financials will soon be available. At the Los Angeles & Orange County Audio Society gala last Sunday I talked with a Meridian dealer. He was/is a big enough dealer to have one year won a car, a Mini. He said he told the Meridian folks that compression didn’t have a place in high end audio. troubleahead 1 Link to comment
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