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MQA is Vaporware

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27 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Ah, now this makes sense.  Roon was/is/will not able to convince the 99% (Amazon, Spotify, Apple, Pandora, etc.) to give them the time of day, so Danny/COO has decided his future lies in convincing the 1% (i.e. "audiophiles") that Tidal and Qobuz (he inexplicably argues that Qobuz is on board with MQA) and thus MQA are crucial to their musical enjoyment.

 

I would call this desperation, but it's just another day in Audiophiledom.

I disagree with your take on Roon. As a Roon customer, I think it is state of the art in playback and cataloging. I have never experienced any effort to convince me that I "need" MQA, Tidal, or Qobuz. I maintain a large local library and it works perfectly for my needs. Roon is 100% a hifi product not different than a tube preamp or a stand alone DAC, it never was intended for the "masses" and there never was an attempt to "convince" anybody.

 

Please note I was a MAJOR Roon skeptic when first introduced, and I thought was a fly by night hipster product. I was wrong. 

 

Any way, i really doubt Roon users give a damn about MQA unless they only listen to Tidal.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I disagree with your take on Roon. As a Roon customer, I think it is state of the art in playback and cataloging. I have never experienced any effort to convince me that I "need" MQA, Tidal, or Qobuz. I maintain a large local library and it works perfectly for my needs. Roon is 100% a hifi product not different than a tube preamp or a stand alone DAC, it never was intended for the "masses" and there never was an attempt to "convince" anybody.

 

Please note I was a MAJOR Roon skeptic when first introduced, and I thought was a fly by night hipster product. I was wrong. 

 

Any way, i really doubt Roon users give a damn about MQA unless they only listen to Tidal.

 

 

 

 

I sort of want to pat you on the head and say "your a good kid" 😋

 

Roon needs streaming more than they need just about anything else, or at least as much as they need anything.  I am a lifer Roon customer, but I would not be if "all" it did (and yes, it does it very well) was handle my own catalog in a "Hi Fi" way.  

 

In any case, here is how I put it to Danny:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/provenance-and-mqa/83875/126

 

edit:   Danny censured my post.  Here it is in full:

"...MQA is closer to an objectively better model of provenance than anyone before them..."

 

This is not true.  The boutique (most of them considered "audiophile") labels identified and "fixed" the province "problem" (such as it is) years ago, which itself is a subset of the "quality" problem.

I am trying to figure out the substance your support of this "provence" angle of $selling$ MQA Danny, beyond your obvious and explicit admiration and respect for Bob Stuart.  He does have my respect, though it is the respect I give all more or less successful con men.  

 

Here is one possible explanation:  Roon is a niche "audiophile" product, though you would like it to be more.  Streaming is important to Roon customers.  With the uncertainty in streaming (Amazon being the most recent potential disruptor) you and your customers are "anxious" (to choose a word) with Roon's de facto lock-in with two of the smallest and nich streaming players, Tidal and Qobuz.  I suspect that Amazon, Spotify, Apple, and the rest are not interested in Roon integration, not even a little bit.  Market realities are such that Roon and "audiophiles" are not worth anything beyond token efforts.

 

So how does Roon support Tidal?  Well, you could argue that it and MQA "solves" a problem, such as your peculiar take on "provence".  This is par for the course and right out of the MQA playbook and has been from the very beginning.

 

MQA in all it's aspects is about control, control of the (digital) product and management of the (consumers) rights.  Provence (like every other aspect of MQA - bandwidth and "green", so called "time domain" and filtering strategery, etc. etc).is just another sales attempt, another confidence angle, and for Roon specifically a way to support partners and excite customers by being able to claim Roon is not static/stale and is solving problems we did not even know we had.

 

 


Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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20 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I disagree with your take on Roon. As a Roon customer, I think it is state of the art in playback and cataloging. I have never experienced any effort to convince me that I "need" MQA, Tidal, or Qobuz. I maintain a large local library and it works perfectly for my needs. Roon is 100% a hifi product not different than a tube preamp or a stand alone DAC, it never was intended for the "masses" and there never was an attempt to "convince" anybody.

 

Please note I was a MAJOR Roon skeptic when first introduced, and I thought was a fly by night hipster product. I was wrong. 

 

Any way, i really doubt Roon users give a damn about MQA unless they only listen to Tidal.

 

 

I agree although lifetime membership just went up to $699 with the new software release today.


PC/NAS/JRiver/Roon - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - KEF LS50 Nocturne - Rel 328 subwoofer - PS Audio AC5 Power cables 

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2 minutes ago, crenca said:

Roon needs streaming more than they need just about anything else,

 

This. Integration with qobuz (and only for radio) is the only reason I'm  keeping roon for another year, having just reupped this month, and before seeing this new rushed, underwhelming release rollout.

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P.S. love how the roon worship cult comes out on their forum at the first sign of turbulance and whiner posts get moved, locked or modded. Paging JimH!

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44 minutes ago, ShawnC said:

I agree although lifetime membership just went up to $699 with the new software release today.

Wow. I paid $500. Pretty decent jump. From the release notes, it looks the new version offers significant improvements. Let's see.

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2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Roon now gives users the ability to select HiFi rather than “Master” for Tidal. 

 

4D39E3A6-3F5C-4947-87FE-DD80C383142C.jpeg

 

I didn't think that Tidal even offered HiFi outside of the MQA versions, unless they are referring  to 16/44 FLAC as  HiFi.

 

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14 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

My other comment is that I thought @The Computer Audiophile did a great service to this community by framing the MQA debate from the perspective of someone who loves recorded music.

 

Chris's comment here is excellent:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/provenance-and-mqa/83875/153

 

15 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

I admit I use Roon for one thing: getting the Qobuz stream to my DAC with as little adulteration as possible.  The product and its user base have evolved into a bit of a cult IMHO.  I'm also an Audirvana+ user and perhaps it's time to cut Roon loose.  I probably don't even need it anymore.

 

I too am no longer 'ga ga' over the meta data and pretty-picture-presentation.  I stream 75% of the time now probably.  I still appreciate how Roon makes DSP easy (EQ, crossfeed, etc.) , but the fact is I can do the same thing in JRiver with a bit more effort.  


Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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33 minutes ago, Sonicularity said:

 

I didn't think that Tidal even offered HiFi outside of the MQA versions, unless they are referring  to 16/44 FLAC as  HiFi.

 

 

Yep, "HiFi" is Tidal's 16/44 tier and always has been.


Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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20 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

I admit I use Roon for one thing: getting the Qobuz stream to my DAC with as little adulteration as possible.  The product and its user base have evolved into a bit of a cult IMHO.  I'm also an Audirvana+ user and perhaps it's time to cut Roon loose.  I probably don't even need it anymore.

 

If Qobuz streaming is your primary use case, you can certainly drop Roon for Audirvana, the Qobuz integration there is quite good in my experience.


no-mqa-sm.jpg

 

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