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MQA is Vaporware

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2 hours ago, Paul R said:

There is no dispute that output power drops as frequency rises. However, I do expect most modern speakers have audible - or at least measurable - output above 13khz at most listening positions, and find the claim they do not to be rather unbelievable.  

 

OTH, most speakers do not have a frequency range sufficient enough to reproduce hi-res -- i.e. the ultrasonic sound is cut out, so there can be no benefit to hi-res.  For example, your Harbeth speakers have a range of 75Hz - 20kHz ±-3dB; even the very top frequecies of a 48kHz sample rate file will get cut off. (But that's OK, you couldn't hear it at your age, anyway.)

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On 6/6/2019 at 3:48 PM, Ralf11 said:

if I had to bet, I'd bet on filter slopes

 

then there is the possibility that ultrasound can affect perception in the hearing range

 

Or get a better DAC.

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12 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

OTH, most speakers do not have a frequency range sufficient enough to reproduce hi-res -- i.e. the ultrasonic sound is cut out, so there can be no benefit to hi-res.  For example, your Harbeth speakers have a range of 75Hz - 20kHz ±-3dB; even the very top frequecies of a 48kHz sample rate file will get cut off. (But that's OK, you couldn't hear it at your age, anyway.)

 

I am not at all sure this means what you think it does. :)

 

Plus or minus 3db does not mean the frequency is cut off or filtrered, though that could be true with some speakers.


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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1 minute ago, Paul R said:

 

I am not at all sure this means what you think it does. :)

 

Plus or minus 3db does not mean the frequency is cut off or filtrered, though that could be true with some speakers.

 

It usually means that after the upper frequency specified (20kHz in the Harbeth case) there is either severe fall-off or it has been cut-out.

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raise your hand if you can hear > 18 kHz


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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3 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

It usually means that after the upper frequency specified (20kHz in the Harbeth case) there is either severe fall-off or it has been cut-out.

 

It means the response is not flat to within plus or minus 3db. The response could just as well peak at 22khz instead of fall. 

 

Neither the Harbeths or the Maggies here have filters in them to cut off frequencies above 20khz. 


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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11 minutes ago, Paul R said:

It means the response is not flat to within plus or minus 3db. The response could just as well peak at 22khz instead of fall. 

All speakers fall off sharply at some point. Some do indeed exhibit a resonance peak just before this point. If the highest frequency mentioned in the spec sheet is 20 kHz, chances are there won't be much response at all above 30 kHz, possibly with strange things happening in between.

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:32 AM, Rt66indierock said:

Come to my office and lay your proof on my conference table in the Valley of the Sun. Nobody has.

 

If the rumoured Amazon lossless (CD quality plus Hi-Res) streaming option launches in Q4 or in 2020, will you personally refund all artists that visit your conference table? Even if they fail to convince you before Q4?

 

Refund all flight, accomodation, cab/uber, dining, ‘entertainment’ expenses?

 

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1 hour ago, Paul R said:

 

It means the response is not flat to within plus or minus 3db. The response could just as well peak at 22khz instead of fall.

 

If the speaker response peaked at 22kHz, why wouldn't Harbeth specify the frequency range out until 22kHz?

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22 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

If the rumoured Amazon lossless (CD quality plus Hi-Res) streaming option launches in Q4 or in 2020, will you personally refund all artists that visit your conference table? Even if they fail to convince you before Q4?

 

Refund all flight, accomodation, cab/uber, dining, ‘entertainment’ expenses?

 

 

One of the jokes at a concert was the artist got 10,000,000 plays last year and got $7.50. Remember only 400,000 tracks are available per the RIAA recent press release. Stream those a you want nobody is getting any money. And they have to make $18,000 to $60,000 to break even on the recording costs.

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7 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Well the best numbers came from a respected audio engineer’s room. Alan Sides playing his own recordings. I was sitting next to him doing the measuring the speakers were Ocean Way.

 

I would encourage you to measure the frequency response of your system and report back. Say from a foot then back to your listening position.

I of course can't say your reporting of results is wrong.  I'd agree with those that wonder what you are using to measure this and if it has been checked. 

 

At my LP some 11 ft from my not very high end speakers, there is some music that doesn't budge the RTA in the top two 1/3 octaves.  But most of it moves it at least 10 to 15 db above the ambient levels during the music.  It fluctuates of course.  It is much lower than the lower frequencies of course, but it is there.  I find it strange you would not record any activity above 13 khz anywhere. 


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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37 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Wow, nobody has brought this further off topic by mentioning super tweeters 😁

 

Well how about a rumor I heard today that MQA has signed ESPN?

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1 minute ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Well how about a rumor I heard today that MQA has signed ESPN?

Well ESPN lost 2 million subscribers last year.  I'm sure MQA would reverse the trend.  I would like to know how MQA will work as they normally over most cable and satellite services use compressed audio anyway. 


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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1 minute ago, esldude said:

I of course can't say your reporting of results is wrong.  I'd agree with those that wonder what you are using to measure this and if it has been checked. 

 

At my LP some 11 ft from my not very high end speakers, there is some music that doesn't budge the RTA in the top two 1/3 octaves.  But most of it moves it at least 10 to 15 db above the ambient levels during the music.  It fluctuates of course.  It is much lower than the lower frequencies of course, but it is there.  I find it strange you would not record any activity above 13 khz anywhere. 

 

The problem is the quietest room in the hotel was the empty press room this morning at 34 to 36 dBs. Everything else was louder and the higher frequencies were down 70 dBs.

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2 minutes ago, esldude said:

Well ESPN lost 2 million subscribers last year.  I'm sure MQA would reverse the trend.  I would like to know how MQA will work as they normally over most cable and satellite services use compressed audio anyway. 

 

Seemed odd to me too but Chris wanted the thread back on track.

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7 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

If the speaker response peaked at 22kHz, why wouldn't Harbeth specify the frequency range out until 22kHz?

 

I do not think you get the idea of what is being specified. The speaker itself may be capable of reproducing much higher frequencies, but it will be at an increased or a reduced volume. 

 

One last example, let’s use the opposite end of the spectrum. If your speaker is specified as 70hz to 20khz at plus.minus 3dB,  and you send program material to it with signals at 65hz, do you really think the speaker will fail to reproduce it?  To be clear, it will reproduce the sound at 65hz, but the frequency response may cause the volume to be louder or softer.  All that is independent of room response. 

 

If if you do not understand that, either we are not communicating or you are pulling my chain. Either way, I suggest you start another topic and get other people to help you  understand better.  


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Wow, nobody has brought this further off topic by mentioning super tweeters 😁

 

Holy Radio Shack DacMan!! Do they still actually make those “super tweeter” thingies they used to sell? 


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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