MQA is Vaporware

[beetlemania]

lol

 

Back to MQA, I unsubscribed from Tidal last night after one month of their low-res service while hunting out the 20ish albums in my library not on Qobuz (Qobuz did add a few previously missing such as the newest John Prine). I'm quite happy with Qobuz and their lossless hi-res other than their pricing scheme is bizarre.

 

[John_Atkinson]

44 minutes ago, crenca said:

I do recall that the trade publication writers such as Andrew Quint and John Atkinson have directly expressed their desire to see you censure this thread and your readers. 

 

Really? What I have complained about is when people have posted false defamatory and demeaning comments about me or Stereophile's writers or have asked Chris to delete posts that infringe on Stereophile's copyright. But "censure this thread"? Not at all.

 

John Atkinson

Technical Editor, Stereophile

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, John_Atkinson said:

 

Really? What I have complained about is when people have posted false defamatory and demeaning comments about me or Stereophile's writers or have asked Chris to delete posts that infringe on Stereophile's copyright. But "censure this thread"? Not at all.

 

John Atkinson

Technical Editor, Stereophile

That's my recollection as well. 

[FredericV]

21 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

lol

 

Back to MQA, I unsubscribed from Tidal last night after one month of their low-res service while hunting out the 20ish albums in my library not on Qobuz (Qobuz did add a few previously missing such as the newest John Prine). I'm quite happy with Qobuz and their lossless hi-res other than their pricing scheme is bizarre.

 

Today I had to tail some Roon logfiles during troubleshooting and I actually saw 24/96 files being requested from Qobuz, not those 24/48 MQA files which unfold to 17/96 of actual resolution, then telling the customer it's 24/96 or 24/192 or any other 48k multiple

If MQA would have been honest in their technical description of the format, I would never have fought it. But calling 17/96 + upsampling master quality, and then claiming it's better than the master was the reason to start looking deeper into the technical aspects of this pseudo hi-res format. We even discovered we could throw away 1/3 of the file and the dac would still tell it's 352K resolution, which can never happen as we destroyed the hi-res part with crypto DRM.

To alpha audio, Bob admitted the actual resolution of most MQA files = not 24 bit.

[Rt66indierock]

16 minutes ago, John_Atkinson said:

 

Really? What I have complained about is when people have posted false defamatory and demeaning comments about me or Stereophile's writers or have asked Chris to delete posts that infringe on Stereophile's copyright. But "censure this thread"? Not at all.

 

John Atkinson

Technical Editor, Stereophile

 

Of course, I would like if we could get back to discussing the what looks like a collapse of digital distribution channels for MQA. Leading to the important question of which audio manufacturers have made any money including MQA in their products?

 

I may mix in a little discussion of the sale of Stereophile when AV Tech Media publishes their financial statements in late September.

[Ralf11]

Forensic Accounting is a useful task

[crenca]

37 minutes ago, John_Atkinson said:

 

Really? What I have complained about is when people have posted false defamatory and demeaning comments about me or Stereophile's writers or have asked Chris to delete posts that infringe on Stereophile's copyright. But "censure this thread"? Not at all.

 

John Atkinson

Technical Editor, Stereophile

 

29 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

That's my recollection as well. 

 

I seem to recall at least one post where he said this thread needed to be censured, but I can't locate it, so I stand corrected for now.  I know he upvoted several of Andrew Quint's posts where Andrew argues that this thread should be censured.  That's the problem with the "civility" argument that whatever it's inherent merits, it is twisted into censorship of information that does not reflect well on MQA and its supporters who write for the trade publications.

[Tintinabulum]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Makes me discount what you're saying. 

You didn't get the funny bit about hobby horse?

This topic isn't about being counted or discounted, it's way beyond that. That would give it credibility...

[The Computer Audiophile]

20 minutes ago, Tintinabulum said:

You didn't get the funny bit about hobby horse?

This topic isn't about being counted or discounted, it's way beyond that. That would give it credibility...

Then it seems you are just here to cause trouble and stir it up. That isn’t cool. 

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Then it seems you are just here to cause trouble and stir it up. That isn’t cool. 

You only figured that out now?

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Then it seems you are just here to cause trouble and stir it up. That isn’t cool. 

 

Or, yours was actually the first* reasonable reply in recent memory that was both civil and informative when someone said they liked the way a MQA file sounded. Might be that people are just a tad bit gun shy... 

 

*Or at least, one of the first. 

 

I don't suppose you could sponsor a moderated talk with Bob Stuart?  I'm pretty sure he would jump if you offered the chance, and ageed to moderate it so he is not attacked. It might be somewhat informative, on either or both sides of the argument. Just don't let him filter the questions ahead of time.

 

-Paul 

 

 

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

1 hour ago, Paul R said:

 

Or, yours was actually the first* reasonable reply in recent memory that was both civil and informative when someone said they liked the way a MQA file sounded. Might be that people are just a tad bit gun shy... 

 

*Or at least, one of the first. 

 

I don't suppose you could sponsor a moderated talk with Bob Stuart?  I'm pretty sure he would jump if you offered the chance, and ageed to moderate it so he is not attacked. It might be somewhat informative, on either or both sides of the argument. Just don't let him filter the questions ahead of time.

 

-Paul 

 

 

 

Oh, you mean something like this? LOL!!!!

 

LOL

[Thuaveta]

2 hours ago, Paul R said:

 I'm pretty sure he would jump if you offered the chance, and ageed to moderate it so he is not attacked.

 

Given the civility police seems to think that factually calling out Bob Stuart for using con man tactics and being a failed businessman are "attacks", and his own history at attempting to censor discussion here, what you seem to be asking @The Computer Audiophile to do is essentially gloss over what Bob Stuart really is, in exchange for... offering Bob Stuart a free audience ? ONCE MORE ?

 

What a fantastic deal !!!

[Ralf11]

Nuh unh uh - if you disagree with him you are bullying  😩

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

I don't suppose you could sponsor a moderated talk with Bob Stuart?  I'm pretty sure he would jump if you offered the chance, and ageed to moderate it so he is not attacked. It might be somewhat informative, on either or both sides of the argument. Just don't let him filter the questions ahead of time.

 

-Paul 

 

I’d like to ask Bob Stuart two questions. First How will the acquisition by Sound United of MQA licenses Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra impact MQA Ltd.? Second when will MQA plugins be available for digital audio workstations? I asked Bob the second question at the Los Angeles Audio Show in 2017 and I would like an update.

 

If I got third question it would be why have you and Ken Forsythe tried to shut down the “MQA is Vaporware” thread?

[sandyk]

17 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

If I got third question it would be why have you and Ken Forsythe tried to shut down the “MQA is Vaporware” thread?

 That should be obvious to even Blind Freddy !      $

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

21 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I’d like to ask Bob Stuart two questions. First How will the acquisition by Sound United of MQA licenses Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra impact MQA Ltd.? Second when will MQA plugins be available for digital audio workstations? I asked Bob the second question at the Los Angeles Audio Show in 2017 and I would like an update.

 

If I got third question it would be why have you and Ken Forsythe tried to shut down the “MQA is Vaporware” thread?

How about if he is such an AES decorated genius and giant of digital audio he did not design an ADC that solves the, ahem, "timing errors" and "blurring" at the capture point? Oh wait, they did not even have the chops to design a stand alone DAC...🤣

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Paul R said:

don't suppose you could sponsor a moderated talk with Bob Stuart?  I'm pretty sure he would jump if you offered the chance, and ageed to moderate it so he is not attacked. It might be somewhat informative, on either or both sides of the argument. Just don't let him filter the questions ahead of time.

Hi Paul - You’re a touch naive on this subject. Not a bad thing though. You saw when I tried to present facts at RMAF right? Facts aren’t taken very well by the MQA Ltd people. 

 

I gave Bob tons of space in the Q&A and he skirted around the details. 

 

Paul, I highly recommend talking to any engineers in HiFi who understand digital audio. None of the will back MQA on a technical level. None of them can backup the what MQA says with real science because MQA is junk science. 

[Rt66indierock]

35 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 That should be obvious to even Blind Freddy !      $

 

I want see if he would deny it. 

[Paul R]

47 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Paul - You’re a touch naive on this subject. Not a bad thing though. You saw when I tried to present facts at RMAF right? Facts aren’t taken very well by the MQA Ltd people. 

 

I gave Bob tons of space in the Q&A and he skirted around the details. 

 

Paul, I highly recommend talking to any engineers in HiFi who understand digital audio. None of the will back MQA on a technical level. None of them can backup the what MQA says with real science because MQA is junk science. 

 

Whoa - that isn't what I said or meant at all. There is no question what-so-ever about MQA not being as advertised on a technical level. I will say it isn't "junk science." What they are doing, essentially packing information in the high frequency part of a signal and then extracting it later, has been done for a very long time. It's one of the really basic things everyone learns about DSP. 

 

It is junk marketing and totally incompetent management - and that coming from Meridian / MQA is total bullshit. 

 

Honestly, the RMAF incident was unbelievable - they were totally out of control. What they were trying to accomplish, what they really were in fear of, and why they choose a stupid method to try and implement it  - well, we will probably never get those answers.

 

But they sure are on a push trying to sell something now. Perfect time for them to attempt to make peace with you - and you still have your reputation for objectivity intact. Whatever they are trying to sell, they woulld most likely behave very well in order to try and gain back some respect and approval. Ask Archimago, and perhaps Jud to participate. If nothing else it might present an opportunity to get facts out there without all the crazy prejudice and insults. 

 

-Paul 

 

 

 

[Paul R]

50 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 That should be obvious to even Blind Freddy !      $

 

Why don't you word it to be less aggressive? Maybe along the lines of:

 

"You have expressed strong disapproval about a thread on this system. Other than some of the commentary is less than flattering, can you explain exactly what information in there you disagree with and why? We have a summary here, minus all the commentary, of what we think the central issues are if you would like to review it before answering. " 

 

That would be Jud's summary of the technical issues. 

 

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I’d like to ask Bob Stuart two questions. First How will the acquisition by Sound United of MQA licenses Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra impact MQA Ltd.? Second when will MQA plugins be available for digital audio workstations? I asked Bob the second question at the Los Angeles Audio Show in 2017 and I would like an update.

 

If I got third question it would be why have you and Ken Forsythe tried to shut down the “MQA is Vaporware” thread?

 

And those first two questions are great. Better asked of the business management perhaps. 

 

[lucretius]

8 hours ago, firedog said:

I'm pretty sure this site does that, as it has more visitors than some of the "big" traditional audio sites. 

 

Serious question: What are some of those "big traditional audio sites?

[firedog]

5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I gave Bob tons of space in the Q&A and he skirted around the details. 

Yep. Paul, did you read that Q&A? Bob pretended to be answering all the questions, but actually didn't and was misleading - as came out in the technical analysis thread. He's had his chance here and in other places. MQA people pretty obviously have a corporate policy of using misleading marketing speech wherever  and whenever they think they can get away with it. When they think they can't, they don't participate. Or, they disrupt, as the did to Chris' presentation. 

[firedog]

3 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

Serious question: What are some of those "big traditional audio sites?

All the stereo mags  you know of and sites listed at places like dailyaudiophile.com