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Rt66indierock

MQA is Vaporware

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I need a Rubber Soul


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

Why does that make it not a good example?  ;) 

 

I'd also be happy to see if we could get comparisons of hi res and MQA Studio for masterings that are similar, exclusive of the MQA processing, if you have any of those to suggest.

If you’re going to go through the effort of measuring/comparing, you might as well choose some files for which MQA at least facially made a serious effort. How about comparing the Tidal 24/192 MQA Studio files of Revival and Midnight Rider from The Allman Brothers’ Idlewild South Album with the Qobuz 24/192 files of the same tracks?

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54 minutes ago, Ski Bum said:

If you’re going to go through the effort of measuring/comparing, you might as well choose some files for which MQA at least facially made a serious effort. How about comparing the Tidal 24/192 MQA Studio files of Revival and Midnight Rider from The Allman Brothers’ Idlewild South Album with the Qobuz 24/192 files of the same tracks?

 

Should include those as well as the White Album stuff to get a range.

 

But we’re getting ahead of ourselves, as no one’s volunteered either to provide the files, discuss what tests can and should be run, or run the tests.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

https://macca-news.blogspot.com/2018/11/giles-martin-door-open-to-50th.html

 

this was followed up numerous social media postings..Let It Be is also on tap. 

 

Oh, OK, I read that. Giles did say “the door is open,” but I haven’t seen anything more definite.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

This information would be discussed in Note  2.3 of MQA Ltd's 2017 financials issued September 2018.

 

Looked up Reinet, and they seem to have money to burn for a while. Not that they necessarily will, but at least to my layperson’s eye, they can.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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5 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Looked up Reinet, and they seem to have money to burn for a while. Not that they necessarily will, but at least to my layperson’s eye, they can.

 

They have money. I am looking at  what the note about their digital audio investment says. They been writing it down every year.

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2 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

You seem to be the only one confused by what he said.

 

He said that folks like LeeS doubted that the numbers myself and others quoted from MQA's audited financials were correct because LeeS had heard something different from someone at MQA about their business and revenue streams.

 

LeeS also didn't understand the concept of consolidated financial results so I'm guessing his understanding of accounting isn't the best.

 

I don't know what crime you think has been committed other than that of Felony Stupidity.

 

I am not confused, but your explanation is a lot clearer than: 

 

"Paul people doubted the numbers were accurate when the source was Companies House. I told them look for yourself. One of my arguments against MQA is Bob Stuart has lost too much money since 2001 to listen to.  And I have a nice spreadsheet of the operating losses."

 

What you said makes more sense, but I do not know how anyone would be expected to connect the dots from the above to what you said. 

 

-Paul 

 

 


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Don't tell Paul but there is an entity called MQA Trustees Ltd. In the Articles of Association bankruptcy is defined. He thinks I have insider information when I just search Companies House website by person.

 

If you mean the same Company House as everyone in the U.K. does, I didn't see any Bankruptcy charges when I went through there. Just what I would consider a rather unfavorable loan agreement ("Charge") from 2015. That was a while ago.  (Maybe that is what you mean? Bankruptcy is far more serious in the U.K. than here. ) 

 

-Paul 

 


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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2 hours ago, wdw said:

 

True, Abbey Road and especially (betrays my age) the second side...it is a “suite” from    

“She on through the bathroom window” and on to the end.  

Have bought the catalogue throughout and in digital from the CD remasters to the latest Giles Martin releases....but it has to be Abbey Road next!

 

My number one comparison song is "Here Comes The Sun" from Abbey Road. I would very much like to compare it in MQA. If it sounds better in MQA than my high res version, I am jumping ship and buying it. ;)

 

-Paul 

 


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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1 minute ago, Paul R said:

 

If you mean the same Company House as everyone in the U.K. does, I didn't see any Bankruptcy charges when I went through there. Just what I would consider a rather unfavorable loan agreement ("Charge") from 2015. That was a while ago.  (Maybe that is what you mean? Bankruptcy is far more serious in the U.K. than here. ) 

 

-Paul 

 

 

Just as I said in the Articles of Association of MQA Trustees. Ltd. And yes the same Companies House. 

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48 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

They have money. I am looking at  what the note about their digital audio investment says. They been writing it down every year.

 

By "writing it down," you mean as a loss?  That wouldn't be at all surprising.  Or do you mean decreasing the amount of their investment?


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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4 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

How the hell did your nasty self get off my ignore list?  Go away please, and amuse yourself. 

 

 

The only nasty thing that I can see there was your response. Maybe try to grow a thicker skin. You should practice what you've preached, and engage in a bit of self-reflection too.

Separately I do not wish to spend even one euro on MQA, beer money or otherwise.

You can amuse yourself on my ignore list.

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2 hours ago, Jud said:

Or do you mean decreasing the amount of their investment?

 

Last year's investment took the form of a loan, could be a sign of investment banker impatience.

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4 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Oh, OK, I read that. Giles did say “the door is open,” but I haven’t seen anything more definite.

 

He also said this about Abbey Road: 

Quote

But it’s a beautiful sounding record anyway, so… That’s the thing, it’s not like, ‘oh, let’s stick a label and we got to sell the album’. It’s really a process of hard emotion ‘can we get it right’. And then thankfully for my bosses, they let us do that."

  It is a really good sounding album and the 24/44.1 is available. I guess he could "improve" it, but this is maybe the one  Beatle album that was recorded well in 8 track and  proper stereo. I don't know how much improvement it needs. 
Personally, I'd rather have him do Rubber Soul and Revolver: but since those were recorded on 4 track with many tracks "bounced down" to share a track, I don't know how much there is to work with there beyond what's already been done in the 2009 remasters. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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5 hours ago, Siltech817 said:

 

Last year's investment took the form of a loan, could be a sign of investment banker impatience.

 

I saw that. We can try to read tea leaves, or wait and see.  I know I’m not smart enough to speculate, so that leaves wait and see. :) 


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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4 hours ago, firedog said:

“And then thankfully for my bosses, they let us do that."

 

By the time he got around to that, I figured he was speaking in general about his process.  But let me be happily surprised.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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55 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

By the time he got around to that, I figured he was speaking in general about his process.  But let me be happily surprised.

I'm pretty sure he was just making a general comment about the process. But after Sgt. Pepper came out he said there were no specific plans to redo the White Album....
Based on past marketing, hard for me to believe they are passing up an opportunity to do a 50th anniversary Abbey Road.  I'd guess it will be the biggest seller of all. And getting in in MQA will just be icing on the cake....


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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41 minutes ago, firedog said:

I'd guess it will be the biggest seller of all.

 

Interesting. It’s my personal favorite as the endpoint of their evolution as songwriters and a band, and I think I've read that Here Comes the Sun is the most requested Beatles song, but I'm curious why you think it would be most popular.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Abt MQA -- if MQA was the 'standard', more than likely, I couldn't easily get enoughtest material needed for my project.  Sure, 'scientific' measurement material is critical, but also crazy test material from the artists is also very--super important.  Someone might say -- 'who cares about your project?'...   (see below)

 

Resulting from having GOOD test material from the normal, unencrypted recordings -- I just found another breakthrough.  I cannot explain it for proprietary reasons, but for all practical purposes EVERY LAST BIT OF MODULATION DISTORTION IS GONE!!!  I have NO 'scientific' test material that puts the software through its paces like pop recordings/classical/etc.  The dynamics are very difficult to create (so many combinations.)   ABBA is crazy difficult to decode (my decoder can now do an incredibly good job on 'Dreamworld', but still isn't perfect of course -- it is damaged), but Carpenters and Carly Simon are also 'problem children' for DolbyA (amongst others.)

 

So, to answer who cares?  anyone who listens to music that is still DolbyA encoded should care (a lot of the older recordings, but certainly not all.)  Also, material that would improve from being decoded again would DEFINITELY benefit  the listeners.  I have been very busy after some revelations (cleaning up the code, preparing for the C4 work.)  The new code might also be applicable to C4 (if it is as dirty as a DolbyA is.)   Frankly, re-decoding even if already DolbyA HW decoding would make an incredible improvement (almost beyond belief.)

 

Well, why can't I just get licenses for proper, undistorted, clean material?  Because any non-standard license cost money, and people are happily paying for substandard and/or undecoded material all too often.  This means that the 'market' for my product is NIL (it really *is* very small, but existant.)  The market will also not pay megabucks if they get by with paying almost miniscule amounts for reasonable DAW software.  We have interest from organizations & recording people that most people wouldn't really believe (I cannot divulge.)

 

Projects like mine would not exist if everything was encumbered.  Of course, there would be work-arounds to decode the distorted/over complicated/some-snake-oil  mess called MQA  (would probably be technically illegal to bypass), but there is no benefit to the community at large given that I try to be ethical/follow rules (which I really try to be -- sometimes unknowingly fail.)  My project DOES NOT financially justify purchasing any specialty software or specialty recordings.

 

This MQA problem would definitely a 2nd order quality disadvantage, but shows an example about people trying to get full control, really EVENTUALLY would disadvantage a lot of people (it doesn't really affect me -- I'd be working on another project, just not audio.)

 

Of course, someone else could write the program that II have written (most likely, they would not have found some of the super-duper advanced  techniques because of the limited time & resources), rather than the software likely costing under $500 like mine, it would have to cost $10k or more, & almost definitely be inferior-- anyway, it would be dead in the water right there because of the cost/price.

 

MQA doesn't have evil intent (it is okay to siphon money from people), it is just the wrong thing (excessive control) at the wrong time (who cares about big files, unless excessively big, anymore?)  Like I wrote before, maybe people from impoverished nations might care about bandwidth costs, but they certainly couldn't pay for a greater tax anyway (MQA's overhead.)

Timing is wrong for MQA, and it just dirtifies the signal with insufficient benefit to the consumer.  (Some benefit to the IP owners -- even negligent benefit for the artists.)

 

John

 

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1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

Abt MQA -- if MQA was the 'standard', more than likely, I couldn't easily get enoughtest material needed for my project.  Sure, 'scientific' measurement material is critical, but also crazy test material from the artists is also very--super important.  Someone might say -- 'who cares about your project?'...   (see below)

 

Resulting from having GOOD test material from the normal, unencrypted recordings -- I just found another breakthrough.  I cannot explain it for proprietary reasons, but for all practical purposes EVERY LAST BIT OF MODULATION DISTORTION IS GONE!!!  I have NO 'scientific' test material that puts the software through its paces like pop recordings/classical/etc.  The dynamics are very difficult to create (so many combinations.)   ABBA is crazy difficult to decode (my decoder can now do an incredibly good job on 'Dreamworld', but still isn't perfect of course -- it is damaged), but Carpenters and Carly Simon are also 'problem children' for DolbyA (amongst others.)

 

So, to answer who cares?  anyone who listens to music that is still DolbyA encoded should care (a lot of the older recordings, but certainly not all.)  Also, material that would improve from being decoded again would DEFINITELY benefit  the listeners.  I have been very busy after some revelations (cleaning up the code, preparing for the C4 work.)  The new code might also be applicable to C4 (if it is as dirty as a DolbyA is.)   Frankly, re-decoding even if already DolbyA HW decoding would make an incredible improvement (almost beyond belief.)

 

Well, why can't I just get licenses for proper, undistorted, clean material?  Because any non-standard license cost money, and people are happily paying for substandard and/or undecoded material all too often.  This means that the 'market' for my product is NIL (it really *is* very small, but existant.)  The market will also not pay megabucks if they get by with paying almost miniscule amounts for reasonable DAW software.  We have interest from organizations & recording people that most people wouldn't really believe (I cannot divulge.)

 

Projects like mine would not exist if everything was encumbered.  Of course, there would be work-arounds to decode the distorted/over complicated/some-snake-oil  mess called MQA  (would probably be technically illegal to bypass), but there is no benefit to the community at large given that I try to be ethical/follow rules (which I really try to be -- sometimes unknowingly fail.)  My project DOES NOT financially justify purchasing any specialty software or specialty recordings.

 

This MQA problem would definitely a 2nd order quality disadvantage, but shows an example about people trying to get full control, really EVENTUALLY would disadvantage a lot of people (it doesn't really affect me -- I'd be working on another project, just not audio.)

 

Of course, someone else could write the program that II have written (most likely, they would not have found some of the super-duper advanced  techniques because of the limited time & resources), rather than the software likely costing under $500 like mine, it would have to cost $10k or more, & almost definitely be inferior-- anyway, it would be dead in the water right there because of the cost/price.

 

MQA doesn't have evil intent (it is okay to siphon money from people), it is just the wrong thing (excessive control) at the wrong time (who cares about big files, unless excessively big, anymore?)  Like I wrote before, maybe people from impoverished nations might care about bandwidth costs, but they certainly couldn't pay for a greater tax anyway (MQA's overhead.)

Timing is wrong for MQA, and it just dirtifies the signal with insufficient benefit to the consumer.  (Some benefit to the IP owners -- even negligent benefit for the artists.)

 

John

 

Hi,

One aspect you have referred to, is the licence costs.

 

Do those labels who are not the part owners of MQA have their artist albums recorded and mastered using the MQA suite ?. That is, are the original files LPCM, and MQA is the process afterwards, or is the MQA software also the recording suite, such that the base format is an MQA format ?

 

Would this mean that if you are not a shareholder, partner, or investor in MQA Ltd, that your music belongs to MQA Ltd under the licence terms ?

 

Should you wish the LPCM version of the album master tapes to be made available, that a large fee is required to de-process the files ?.

 

It may be ok for the three largest labels, but what if the smaller labels are convinced MQA is the best option to master their product ?. Is it a permanent lock in for those specific albums ?

 

Regards,

Shadders.

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7 hours ago, firedog said:

 

He also said this about Abbey Road: 

  It is a really good sounding album and the 24/44.1 is available. I guess he could "improve" it, but this is maybe the one  Beatle album that was recorded well in 8 track and  proper stereo. I don't know how much improvement it needs. 
 

I used "Oh Darling" (24/44) as a reference track while I built new crossovers for my Thiels (compared old and new XOs via mono listening). I will confidently claim that the recording quality is, um, not great. Remixed/remastered Sgt Peppers and White Album sound sublime in my system. I very much want Abbey Road SQ to match what I consider to be The Beatles best performance.

 

Also, I will never ever buy an MQA version of Abbey Road.


Roon ROCK (Roon 1.6; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 DSD > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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