MQA is Vaporware

[sandyk]

4 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

I know about depression -- it is a really terrible problem.  It is silly to say please feel better -- because depression is something that is often impossible to control.  No matter what, my intention is that I hope you do feel better.

 

My poor mind is limited right now also -- had to doggiesit some dogs smarter than I am (I think.) :-).   I had to watch them, keeping them from being overly mischievous (if they had hands, they'd be driving a car.)    Anyway -- when I did the comparison check, on the non-B and the B versions, of Carly's recordings -- I did a bit for bit comparison of the entire file.  They were identical.

 

It is SOO easy for hearing to be confused. 

 

John

 John

You were NOT fooled.

 The Checksums are NOT capable of revealing the whole story. 

 

As I have previously mentioned in this forum. I even have a later versionComparison BluRay Music disc available where you can not only HEAR the differences when played by a decent media player such as an Oppo 103 or later model into a quality HDTV, you can SEE the differences at the same time.

 After this debacle, if you are still willing to open your mind on this issue, I am prepared to send you further examples of such obvious differences where the checksums simply do NOT give the full story.

Alex

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 John

You were NOT fooled.

 The Checksums are NOT capable of revealing the whole story. 

 

As I have previously mentioned in this forum. I even have a later versionComparison BluRay Music disc available where you can not only HEAR the differences when played by a decent media player such as an Oppo 103 or later model into a quality HDTV, you can SEE the differences at the same time.

 After this debacle, if you are still willing to open your mind on this issue, I am prepared to send you further examples of such obvious differences where the checksums simply do NOT give the full story.

Alex

If what you say is true, you’d be up for a Nobel prize. 

[Ralf11]

or at least a No Bell prize...

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

I think we some highly personal conversations  going on here, off topic a well. 

 

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

If what you say is true, you’d be up for a Nobel prize. 

Chris

 You have had the opportunity twice now to try and verify my reports, which Martin Colloms has already verified using the so called " Gold Standard" DBTs. The first time was 10 years ago when you actually downloaded the files then refused to listen to them.

 In the same thread, the highly sceptical Peter St. DID report hearing the differences along with a friend.

 (" Looking for a job outside I.T. now ")

 Do you REALLY believe that John who is highly qualified in  this area made such a monumental stuff up with his indepth reports ?

 

 You are also aware that Barry Diament who is now a good online friend of mine,. also reported hearing differences, along with his wife, using his studio gear for seamless switching between tracks with my supplied CD-R that he had ripped to HDD again, although it was intended to be listened to directly.

 

Alex

 

[John Dyson]

16 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Chris

 You have had the opportunity twice now to try and verify my reports, which Martin Colloms has already verified using the so called " Gold Standard" DBTs. The first time was 10 years ago when you actually downloaded the files then refused to listen to them.

 In the same thread, the highly sceptical Peter St. DID report hearing the differences along with a friend.

 (" Looking for a job outside I.T. now ")

 Do you REALLY believe that John who is highly qualified in  this area made such a monumental stuff up with his indepth reports ?

 

 You are also aware that Barry Diament who is now a good online friend of mine,. also reported hearing differences, along with his wife, using his studio gear for seamless switching between tracks with my supplied CD-R that he had ripped to HDD again, although it was intended to be listened to directly.

 

Alex

 

hearing and the brain are so very unreliable -- people can even hear things differently every time that they listen -- that is what got me, eveb though  I know about that fact of variable hearing.

I did a complete, bit by bit comparison of the 05 and 05b files -- exactly the same, and will produce exactly the same results -- it is HEARING that is variable for almost EVERYONE -- the answer to variable hearing is to run multiple tests, and do statistical analysis and also check at different times during the day.

This fact about variable hearing is one reason why myths get created and passed around over and over again.

 

PS: even headphones sitting differently on the head can make a big difference...

 

John

[Ralf11]

Another issue is that if you try to force some oddball "difference" that is really no difference on enough people...  you will eventually get a few detects that are merely due to chance, and not real differences at all.

 

That is no test at all.

[FredericV]

If checksums are identical (e.g. SHA256 of 2 files are identical) and you hear a difference, something seriously is wrong with you or your gear

[mansr]

48 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I think we some highly personal conversations  going on here, off topic a well.

That's Alex's specialty.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

That's Alex's specialty.

as much I disagree with pretty much all of his posts, depression is not a laughing matter, m and I am not sure why it was mentioned. 

[shtf]

32 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

hearing and the brain are so very unreliable -- people can even hear things differently every time that they listen -- that is what got me, eveb though  I know about that fact of variable hearing.

I did a complete, bit by bit comparison of the 05 and 05b files -- exactly the same, and will produce exactly the same results -- it is HEARING that is variable for almost EVERYONE -- the answer to variable hearing is to run multiple tests, and do statistical analysis and also check at different times during the day.

This fact about variable hearing is one reason why myths get created and passed around over and over again.

 

PS: even headphones sitting differently on the head can make a big difference...

 

John

 

You are quite right.  In fact, sometimes it seems the more one focuses on hearing any minute differences, the less one hears any differences.  Especially when you might have easily distinguished those same differences the night before.  And of course audio memory can be so short too.

 

These are just a few of the frustrations of those who work with or focus on developing / improving their listening skills.  And as variable as things may be, there's nothing but a brick wall or deer-in-the-headlight glaze when trying to commuicate any of this with so many who think they were born with the ability to discern / interpret what they hear and hence have yet to discern / interpret a bloomin' thing.

 

[mav52]

man can we get back to talking about MQA

[Ralf11]

MQA sux

[John Dyson]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

MQA sux

Sorry for diverting the subject -- but the discussion is Bad Bad Bad Good Bad Bad Good, etc.  There really isn't an answer or resolution about MQA.  I know that MQA doesn't have a benefit to the customer nowadays, but those profiting see a great benefit...

MQA is pretty much resolved -- unless people just like to argue :-).

 

John

[mav52]

4 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

MQA sux

You sure this isn't GUTB 😀

[mav52]

1 minute ago, John Dyson said:

Sorry for diverting the subject -- but the discussion is Bad Bad Bad Good Bad Bad Good, etc.  There really isn't an answer or resolution about MQA.  I know that MQA doesn't have a benefit to the customer nowadays, but those profiting see a great benefit...

MQA is pretty much resolved -- unless people just like to argue :-).

 

John

 

Well if its pretty much resolved, wouldn't this other conversation be better on another thread of its own.

[FredericV]

I no longer have the time to read this topic fully, so who is willing to make a weekly executive summary?

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Sorry for diverting the subject -- but the discussion is Bad Bad Bad Good Bad Bad Good, etc.  There really isn't an answer or resolution about MQA.  I know that MQA doesn't have a benefit to the customer nowadays, but those profiting see a great benefit...

MQA is pretty much resolved -- unless people just like to argue :-).

 

John

 

John it may be solved technically in your eyes. I'm still working on the encoder so it isn't done. And the marketing issue is still on going.

 

And as the original poster cool it on discussion of depression.  Way off topic.

[John Dyson]

14 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

John it may be solved technically in your eyes. I'm still working on the encoder so it isn't done. And the marketing issue is still on going.

 

And as the original poster cool it on discussion of depression.  Way off topic.

 

Raw fact summary:

 

Okay -- MQA no technical advantage, just download unmodified 96k/24bit or 192k/24bit or other rates.

MQA -- financial cost for users, financial advantage for IP owners.

 

If you enjoy just writing software, that is cool...  However I try to write things that actually might  help people.   MQA is of little interest to those who want freedom in using the music (without stealing -- not interested in that.)

 

Also, MQA recordings will most likely be mis-mastered like everything else -- how can the customer POSSIBLY correct the errors?  Not at all.

 

The arguments above, with a modicum of logic -- No advantage to consumers, lots of advantage to IP owners.

Okay, there is an advantage to consumers -- shorter files that have been distorted in one way or another -- but we have mp3 that compresses much better, and bandwidth is cheap anyway -- why would the consumer want something that is actually inferior to the quality that they want?.  Ethiopia probably has enough bandwidth, let alone EU, UK, Cn or the US.  Okay, the big customer base in Venezuela might have bandwidth problems -- big market there, right?

 

John

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

18 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

John it may be solved technically in your eyes. I'm still working on the encoder so it isn't done. And the marketing issue is still on going.

 

And as the original poster cool it on discussion of depression.  Way off topic.

Are you hinting on a "Mueller Report" on MQA?

[asdf1000]

40 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

I'm still working on the encoder so it isn't done.

 

What do you mean by this? What work are you doing on the encoder?

 

[Rt66indierock]

20 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

 

Raw fact summary:

 

Okay -- MQA no technical advantage, just download unmodified 96k/24bit or 192k/24bit or other rates.

MQA -- financial cost for users, financial advantage for IP owners.

 

If you enjoy just writing software, that is cool...  However I try to write things that actually might  help people.   MQA is of little interest to those who want freedom in using the music (without stealing -- not interested in that.)

 

Also, MQA recordings will most likely be mis-mastered like everything else -- how can the customer POSSIBLY correct the errors?  Not at all.

 

The arguments above, with a modicum of logic -- No advantage to consumers, lots of advantage to IP owners.

Okay, there is an advantage to consumers -- shorter files that have been distorted in one way or another -- but we have mp3 that compresses much better, and bandwidth is cheap anyway -- why would the consumer want something that is actually inferior to the quality that they want?.  Ethiopia probably has enough bandwidth, let alone EU, UK, Cn or the US.  Okay, the big customer base in Venezuela might have bandwidth problems -- big market there, right?

 

John

 

John I appreciate what you doing with the Dolby stuff. But how MQA files are being processed isn't new. So why would I code when there is still much research and analysis to do? Even better I can blame Robert Harley for a piece of old technology that seemed to pop up again in MQA encoding. Plan, analyze, review then think about coding steps. Or just get somebody at 34C3 to copy an encoder when one gets out in the wild and save yourself a lot of trouble.

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

What do you mean by this? What work are you doing on the encoder?

 

 

Mapping what happens when a file is processed by MQA.

[Rt66indierock]

32 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Are you hinting on a "Mueller Report" on MQA?

 

Nope after all Mueller failed. 

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Mapping what happens when a file is processed by MQA.

 

Interesting.

 

Doing this yourself or with the help of Bob's worst nightmare ? @mansr  @Archimago  @Miska?