MQA is Vaporware

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

I'm not seeing this.

 

Here are the hires and undecoded-MQA file sizes for the track I used in the 'apples-to-apples final' thread:

 

Hires:

 

MQA:

 

So more like 55% than 25%.

 

Mani.

To make it apples to apples you need to strip bits and top end frequency from the high res. Otherwise your doing the equivalent of hirez is larger than mp3. Well of course it is, mp3 strips data just like MQA. 

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

This really an accurate description of what happened at all Chris.  In talking to Ken and Mike, they were frustrated that your slides were so one-sided and ignored the materials that they had sent you that addressed the points you were making.  And as my ignored response showed, there were valid counterpoints to almost every slide.

 

If you had been more objective and presented both sides, then said, "I believe this side, because..." then you would have been more credible, even if you chose the anti-MQA viewpoint.  Instead the slides (as I detail herein) did not address many of the counterpoints.

 

That frustrated Ken and Mike and understandably so. 

 

This is how a child justifies a temper tantrum Lee, “You made me do it!”

 

Have they at least publicly apologized yet? 

 

This is is a terrible argument to make. No matter how they felt then, by now they should have realized how badly they behaved. That is totally without reference to any issue surrounding MQA, only looking at their behavior. 

 

Also you are assuming a lot from the slides, and a lot of those assumptions are at least questionable. You have no idea at all what Chris might have said, or how he would have opened up the floor to, questions or comments. If they had behaved like civilized people instead of barbarians at the gate, they might have been able to salvage far more respect and interest. 

 

Please reconsider your thinking on this one aspect. It is like making excuses for a spoiled child who misbehaved in public. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

@Lee Scoggins when researching both sides of MQA for my presentation I had a nice slide all ready to be populated that covered all the scientific research into hearing and perception that Bob used for MQA development. However, when I found out that much of the data came from studies of owls, I had to use that. I went where the data took me. 

 

To satisfy you it seems like the only balanced presentation would have to contain mountains of lies and impossibilities. I don't think anti-vaxxers should be given equal time to spout misinformation and I couldn't honestly spout misinformation that I know has been proven wrong. 

 

Based on your continued lies and misdirections I can only conclude you have an ulterior motive. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Have they at least publicly apologized yet?

Not publicly nor privately. Based on Lee's close relationship with them and what he ha said here, I'm lead to believe they think they were totally appropriate. 

[mav52]

1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said:

This really an accurate description of what happened

 

Yep pretty accurate of what happen.  The MQA presence at Chris's presentation looked like kids fighting over a ball.  Not very mature from a consumers view.

[Lee Scoggins]

10 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

This is how a child justifies a temper tantrum Lee, “You made me do it!”

 

Have they at least publicly apologized yet? 

 

This is is a terrible argument to make. No matter how they felt then, by now they should have realized how badly they behaved. That is totally without reference to any issue surrounding MQA, only looking at their behavior. 

 

Also you are assuming a lot from the slides, and a lot of those assumptions are at least questionable. You have no idea at all what Chris might have said, or how he would have opened up the floor to, questions or comments. If they had behaved like civilized people instead of barbarians at the gate, they might have been able to salvage far more respect and interest. 

 

Please reconsider your thinking on this one aspect. It is like making excuses for a spoiled child who misbehaved in public. 

 

 

The only "temper tantrum" Paul was Derek pounding on the desk and Chris getting flustered and leaving.  Mike and Ken were pretty civil and stuck around to answer questions after Chris left and also after the seminar ended with Steve.

 

You really shouldn't make assumptions about the event if you were not there.

[Shadders]

2 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

You really shouldn't make assumptions about the event if you were not there.

And, and,..... maybe one should not believe MQA Ltd on the claims of MQA if you do not understand the theory..... and keep on repeating as an argument.

[manisandher]

38 minutes ago, Shadders said:

In the spectrum, i can see some spikes - i think later you stated they were artefacts from the processing and not in the file.

 

The only issue with the difference file might be lack of true alignment - it's a bugger to get right. I did the best job I could, but it may not be perfect. Maybe @pkane2001's software would do a better job?

 

Mani.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

The only "temper tantrum" Paul was Derek pounding on the desk and Chris getting flustered and leaving.  Mike and Ken were pretty civil and stuck around to answer questions after Chris left and also after the seminar ended with Steve.

 

You really shouldn't make assumptions about the event if you were not there.

You have to be kidding me. 

 

There is video Lee. 

 

Next thing you'll say is that you called me Chris Audiophile, then Chris Connaker Audiophile, then who knows! 

 

For reference: https://mashable.com/article/donald-trump-lies-tim-cook-apple/#W6QwmWVVPPqr

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Next thing you'll say is that you called me Chris Audiophile, then Chris Connaker Audiophile, then who knows! 

Chris Style?

[rickca]

21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I found out that much of the data came from studies of owls

I don't give a hoot about MQA.

[beetlemania]

I voted with my wallet and cancelled Tidal. Buh-bye POS MQA!

Qobuz is missing some albums I like but I'll just buy those.

[Shadders]

5 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

The only issue with the difference file might be lack of true alignment - it's a bugger to get right. I did the best job I could, but it may not be perfect. Maybe @pkane2001's software would do a better job?

 

Mani.

Hi,

Did you :

1. Subtract the audio files in the time domain, and compute the FFT of that ? or
2. Compute the FFT of the audio files and then compute the difference ?

I think it is 1., but just need to confirm.

 

If it is 1., and you used the time domain difference, then the "supposed" deblurring effect is significantly below -100dB, which means - deblurring is a sham. It make NO difference.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[The Computer Audiophile]

At least I can count on this community for a good sense of humor. You guys seriously are the best. 

[Samuel T Cogley]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

At least I can count on this community for a good sense of humor. You guys seriously are the best. 

 

I don't say it enough Chris, but it's we who owe YOU a BIG thank you!!! 👍

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I don't say it enough Chris, but it's we who owe YOU a BIG thank you!!! 👍

Hogwash :~)

[charlesphoto]

1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

This is an analogy that is too simple and misleading.  You cannot look at this solely on an individual consumer's experience and make the claim when the whole thing is about distributing music at scale.

 

Running a streaming service requires lots of bandwidth and lots of storage.  While individually both are cheap, there are many issues that these services face at the vast scales they work in.  Look at amazon or netflix.  Many times the video will stutter at night when bandwidth is heaviest. As for downloads, Qobuz hangs up on me all the time although I have fiber-optic speed.  24/192 I think requires around 9 mbps download speeds.  It's provable that many areas in the country don't have that.

 

As long as these problems persist, you cannot argue that file size compression is an idea whose time "has come and gone."

 

And I suppose it’s ’provable’ there’s thousands of audiophiles in these underserved internet speed areas just clambering for compressed 24/192 streaming? So many that it’s worth trying to monopolize on music delivery? Give us a break. Most people could care less about hi-rez (or even regular cd rez) as it is, and if their internet is so poor, I’m pretty sure they have bigger issues than audiofooldom (like streaming basic Netflix for one). Yes, there will always be outlier cases for anything, but this sounds like yet another straw man argument to try and and kidnap an entire industry. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, charlesphoto said:

 

And I suppose it’s ’provable’ there’s thousands of audiophiles in these underserved internet speed areas just clambering for compressed 24/192 streaming? So many that it’s worth trying to monopolize on music delivery? Give us a break. Most people could care less about hi-rez (or even regular cd rez) as it is, and if their internet is so poor, I’m pretty sure they have bigger issues than audiofooldom (like streaming basic Netflix for one). Yes, there will always be outlier cases for anything, but this sounds like yet another straw man argument to try and and kidnap an entire industry. 

 

So well said Charles.

[charlesphoto]

8 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

I voted with my wallet and cancelled Tidal. Buh-bye POS MQA!

Qobuz is missing some albums I like but I'll just buy those.

 

Same here. And when I was with Tidal, most of the MQA I tried sounded ‘dead’ to me in comparison to the basic 16/44 they were meant to replace. 

[crenca]

9 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

And I suppose it’s ’provable’ there’s thousands of audiophiles in these underserved internet speed areas just clambering for compressed 24/192 streaming? So many that it’s worth trying to monopolize on music delivery? Give us a break. Most people could care less about hi-rez (or even regular cd rez) as it is, and if their internet is so poor, I’m pretty sure they have bigger issues than audiofooldom (like streaming basic Netflix for one). Yes, there will always be outlier cases for anything, but this sounds like yet another straw man argument to try and and kidnap an entire industry. 

 

 

Where's the sugar in this?

[pkane2001]

29 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

The only issue with the difference file might be lack of true alignment - it's a bugger to get right. I did the best job I could, but it may not be perfect. Maybe @pkane2001's software would do a better job?

 

Mani.

 

But of course

 

 

 

[Shadders]

1 minute ago, pkane2001 said:

 

But of course

 

 

 

Hi,

Two questions :

1. Has anyone used this software to compute the difference of regular and MQA files in the time domain ?
2. Are there any examples of the ringing/blurring as referred to by MQA Ltd that sullies every audio file ?

Regards,

Shadders.

[k-man]

30 minutes ago, mansr said:

Chris Style?

Sadly there will be a mix up between him and Chris Thile. 

[manisandher]

22 minutes ago, Shadders said:

Hi,

Did you :

1. Subtract the audio files in the time domain, and compute the FFT of that ? or
2. Compute the FFT of the audio files and then compute the difference ?

I think it is 1., but just need to confirm.

 

If it is 1., and you used the time domain difference, then the "supposed" deblurring effect is significantly below -100dB, which means - deblurring is a sham. It make NO difference.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

 

Yep, it was 1.

 

FWIW, to my ears, the MQA does sound different to the hires... but not necessarily better.

 

Nowadays I'm more than happy with simple redbook. Upsampling in XXHighEnd or HQPlayer and sending to a decent (preferably filterless) DAC, redbook can sound truly stunning.

 

Mani.

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

 

Where's the sugar in this?

You're losing the plot. 

 

Your version of this would have been abrasive and turned people off 😁