mansr Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 34 minutes ago, Shadders said: It is the MQA CD being discussed : https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/163302855-is-mqa-doa The above link details that 13bits are LPCM and 3bits are assigned to the HF. The answers from the Hifi News employees states the same - MQA CD has 13bits LPCM and 3bits pseudo-noise. None of the MQA-CD rips I've seen use that bit allocation. They all have 15 bits of PCM and 1 bit MQA. Link to comment
Shadders Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, mansr said: None of the MQA-CD rips I've seen use that bit allocation. They all have 15 bits of PCM and 1 bit MQA. Hi, No problem - they (Hifi News) quote 13bits - as does the patent. If it is less then ok for those tested so far, but then we have to work with worst case. Regards, Shadders. Link to comment
mansr Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Shadders said: No problem - they (Hifi News) quote 13bits - as does the patent. If it is less then ok for those tested so far, but then we have to work with worst case. Any specific numbers mentioned in the patents are just examples. Link to comment
Shadders Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Just now, mansr said: Any specific numbers mentioned in the patents are just examples. Hi, I see - so could be 12 bits ??? Keep up the good work ? Regards, Shadders. Link to comment
mansr Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 52 minutes ago, Shadders said: I see - so could be 12 bits ??? The decoder allows as few as 8 bits. The least I have seen in actual files is 14. Shadders 1 Link to comment
Shadders Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 minute ago, mansr said: The decoder allows as few as 8 bits. The least I have seen in actual files is 14. Hi, Thankfully, given the lack of MQA CD's, should not be an issue. But if MQA CD's are forced - then the variation will be unknown for the general public unless they advertise it on the CD (which is highly unlikely - will indicate a deficiency). Regards, Shadders. Link to comment
Popular Post Sal1950 Posted November 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Shadders said: I do wonder if MQA CD’s degradation is stated to be inaudible, and then the Hifi press will then go on to say how good 24bit recordings are and their extra bit depth makes such a difference. I am sure that they will use some convoluted text to support both aspects whilst not referring to the obvious contradiction. They are well versed experts at talking out of both sides of their mouths. crenca, tmtomh and Shadders 2 1 "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
labjr Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I find it interesting that reviewers are saying vinyl cut from digital masters is better than the digital masters? What's next? MQA mastered vinyl? Link to comment
mansr Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, labjr said: I find it interesting that reviewers are saying vinyl cut from digital masters is better than the digital masters? What's next? MQA mastered vinyl? Already happened: https://www.propermusic.com/product-details/Radka-Toneff-and-Steve-Dobrogosz-Fairytales-Original-Master-Edition-MQA-LP-253561 The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 17 hours ago, mansr said: Already happened: MQA'd vinyl, Oh bother. "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
labjr Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 17 hours ago, mansr said: Already happened: Only proves how ridiculous the audiophile business has become. Why would a purist with 10's of thousands invested in a turntable setup, want vinyl made from anything digital? Teresa 1 Link to comment
FredericV Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 On 11/22/2018 at 11:55 PM, mansr said: Already happened: https://www.propermusic.com/product-details/Radka-Toneff-and-Steve-Dobrogosz-Fairytales-Original-Master-Edition-MQA-LP-253561 based on the original 16 bit/ 50,35 kHz master tape from 1982 ... so what's the originalresolution flag for these files ? Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing. Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted November 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 24, 2018 14 hours ago, labjr said: Only proves how ridiculous the audiophile business has become. Why would a purist with 10's of thousands invested in a turntable setup, want vinyl made from anything digital? But you have masses of vinyl enthusiasts who think LP versions sound better, even when the original recording itself is digital. Most LPs these days - by a large margin - are sourced from digital. Even when the original is analog, the LP is generally mastered from a digital source, not a tape. Ralf11 and The Computer Audiophile 1 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
4est Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 4 hours ago, firedog said: But you have masses of vinyl enthusiasts who think LP versions sound better, even when the original recording itself is digital. Most LPs these days - by a large margin - are sourced from digital. Even when the original is analog, the LP is generally mastered from a digital source, not a tape. In this case, it can be what digital resolution are you listening to and from what convertor vs what is on the LP. I do not find it unusual that some might prefer some of these vinyl recordings despite the issues with vinyl playback. Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
firedog Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, 4est said: In this case, it can be what digital resolution are you listening to and from what convertor vs what is on the LP. I do not find it unusual that some might prefer some of these vinyl recordings despite the issues with vinyl playback. My point is that you have Michael Fremer and many like him that have high end digital reproduction and listen to hi-res, but still generally prefer the vinyl, even when digitally sourced. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 3 hours ago, firedog said: My point is that you have Michael Fremer and many like him that have high end digital reproduction and listen to hi-res, but still generally prefer the vinyl, even when digitally sourced. Many prefer other high distortion links in their playback chain. There's no accounting for taste. "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
4est Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 2 hours ago, firedog said: My point is that you have Michael Fremer and many like him that have high end digital reproduction and listen to hi-res, but still generally prefer the vinyl, even when digitally sourced. Yes, but they are still listening to different DACs. I am not trying to argue, but make that point clear. They are not the same analog conversions, and anything might be different. Someone such as Fremer should be taken with a grain of salt on anything digital anyway. He has obviously expended more energy on vinyl, and is also likely very biased. I prescribe to the notion to pursue the best recording that something was mastered in, which means I pretty much agree with you. I just felt the need to state that vinyl can give redbook a run for its money. Although I have been on a vinyl hiatus, I pursue both. Vinyl for older recordings and digital for newer unless I know they were recorded and mastered in analog. Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
lucretius Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 11 hours ago, firedog said: Even when the original is analog, the LP is generally mastered from a digital source, not a tape. I don't doubt this but I am curious as to the reasons why the analog source (tape) would not be used to master the LP. Is it so that the sound engineer(s) can take advantage of the DSP processing that exists? mQa is dead! Link to comment
labjr Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, lucretius said: I don't doubt this but I am curious as to the reasons why the analog source (tape) would not be used to master the LP. Is it so that the sound engineer(s) can take advantage of the DSP processing that exists? That and the master tapes are old and worn. Some are becoming unplayable. Each time they roll them probably risks more damage. But doing it digitally really negates any advantage of having an analog setup. Imaginary or not. May as well do the analog coloration with DSP and play it back with a DAC. lucretius 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted November 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, lucretius said: I don't doubt this but I am curious as to the reasons why the analog source (tape) would not be used to master the LP. Is it so that the sound engineer(s) can take advantage of the DSP processing that exists? This specific album was recorded to digital tape at 16 bit / 50 kHz. This was transferred to vinyl and for sale at 24/192. tmtomh and lucretius 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
firedog Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 1 hour ago, labjr said: That and the master tapes are old and worn. Some are becoming unplayable. Each time they roll them probably risks more damage. But doing it digitally really negates any advantage of having an analog setup. Imaginary or not. May as well do the analog coloration with DSP and play it back with a DAC. Agree and I’ll add: few people and places have either the skills (experience) or equipment to work with tape. So you digitize the tape and then can easily and relatively quickly work with the material in the way you know ( which saves big bucks) along with the other advantages mentioned. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 On 5/2/2018 at 8:38 PM, The Computer Audiophile said: However, some VERY LARGE and VERY WEALTHY companies will give away or include stuff like this at no visible cost to the consumer, in order to one-up the other guys. Hey Chris Have you heard any more recent whispers on this? No need to mention the company but since May, have you heard they are going ahead with MQA plans and going to be giving it away to their customers? Or have those talks/whispers fizzled since then? Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted November 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Em2016 said: Hey Chris Have you heard any more recent whispers on this? No need to mention the company but since May, have you heard they are going ahead with MQA plans and going to be giving it away to their customers? Or have those talks/whispers fizzled since then? I haven’t heard anything but given the circumstances I doubt I’ll be receiving a holiday card from MQA this year. asdf1000 and 4est 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 37 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I haven’t heard anything but given the circumstances I doubt I’ll be receiving a holiday card from MQA this year. Hilarious! There's always next year to kiss & makeup. Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 11 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I haven’t heard anything but given the circumstances I doubt I’ll be receiving a holiday card from MQA this year. Chris, I may have forgotten to thank you for falling on your sword at RMAF. I talked with all the MQA representatives afterward and got a lot of information. I didn’t think the realized the impression they made. And I haven’t brought it up in my subsequent conversations with MQA Ltd. CEO Mike Jbara. In any case MQA Ltd.’s revenue model is based on a hardware model like Dolby’s. Even if someone is giving a product away there may need to be extensive discussions about how much cash will go to MQA Ltd. 4est 1 Link to comment
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