MQA is Vaporware

[esldude]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I can't imagine with such a low subscriber count, about 20,000 that they can make much money. As John Atkinson is fond of saying we are larger than all the other English language audio publications combined. And look what happened to them.

Did TAS ever make money?  When Harry Pearson still had it for some time it had no ads.  Then limited ads.  Subscriptions were high and did apparently cover cost of the magazine.  I don't know if it made money until after 1998.  

[shtf]

1 hour ago, Brinkman Ship said:

For the record, i do not believe Stereophile writers are paid to mention products ("product placements").

I don't think John Atkinson would allow it. TAS..it is possible..but only with certain writers.  But still unlikely. I don't think audio manufacturers would really need to do this. Providing the products for long term loan is sufficient enough incentive to get them mentioned.

 

I find it interesting that you think these guys are capable of some questionable behavior but not other questionable behavior as though it's off limits or out of bounds.  In fact, as I read your post, my jaw dropped, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up, tears welled up in my eyes, and suddenly I felt like I was experiencing the birth of a new world and then I thought to myself, it's not about me, it's about the children. 

 

Seriously though, it's been my experience that once somebody crosses a moral, ethical, or legal line, there often times is no other line for them to cross and it's now wide open range for them and the possibilities are endless.  Kinda' like when one compromises in one point and next thing you know they're compromising at another point, then another, and pretty soon their entire lives are one big compromise.

 

I get that.  But the part I still struggle with is that in generations past when these types were caught it seemed they usually ceased the wrongdoing and walked away with their heads hanging in shame.  But in the 21st century when caught it seems the new standard procedure is to just double-down and keep going about their compromised business without any remorse or shame.

 

Hopefully, nobody here thinks MQA is the first time the magazines compromised or crossed the line.  But it's without doubt their biggest boldest caper yet.

[beetlemania]

5 minutes ago, shtf said:

Seriously though, it's been my experience that once somebody crosses a moral, ethical, or legal line, there often times is no other line for them to cross and it's now wide open range for them and the possibilities are endless. 

 

That could be the case at TAS. JA is a curious case, tho’. I think his enamorment with this dubious format is explained by some combo of a) his regard for BS, b) the special treatment, if not outright remastering, of his personal files, and/or c) sketchy early demos wherein it appears that MQA stacked the decked with comparisons to mp3, different masters or other shenanigans.

 

Meanwhile, as Steve Guttenburg highlighted, MQA has grown almost no legs outside of Tidal. 

/s This despite the obvious benefits to young listeners /s

[crenca]

Example of astroturfing for MQA:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/im-completely-sold-on-mqa-thank-god-for-the-bob-stuarts-of-this-world/44003/15

 

 

 

[firedog]

8 hours ago, skikirkwood said:

 

Have you ever noticed every "review" in Audiostream by Steve Plaskin has a huge number of mentions of Synergistic Research and Shunyata Research products.

 

 

I don't think there is anything nefarious there. He likes and uses the products and simply thinks they should be mentioned in every review as part of his playback system, so the playback context is understood. There are other audio sites where the review protocol requires the playback system components to be mentioned/listed. 

[Shadders]

4 hours ago, shtf said:

it's been my experience that once somebody crosses a moral, ethical, or legal line, there often times is no other line for them to cross and it's now wide open range for them and the possibilities are endless.  Kinda' like when one compromises in one point and next thing you know they're compromising at another point, then another, and pretty soon their entire lives are one big compromise.

Hi,

You're talking about marriage here. I am sure you are. I have been there, done that, and to me, it does sound a lot like marriage.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[FredericV]

5 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said:

here is another regular consumer report on MQA sound quality and comparisons to hirez.

 

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=171601

 

no jaws dropped, no new worlds birthed, no scientific revolutions....

In several cases, even redbook is preferred over MQA.

[shtf]

22 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Thats a whole debate right there: trust your ears or trust audio measurements. Either way can lead you astray. If the subjective experience is most important to you I agree that is all that matters.

 

Indeed.  But that's a rabbit hole best left to another thread.

 

22 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

So, you formed a theory about MQA. Your theory was based on certain observations and beliefs.all theories need to be subject to experiment to test them.

...

All I can say is that it was a bold theory if you didn't understand the technology nor had you experienced the subject of your theory. You obviously understood enough technology to put together the theory. Doesn't make you wrong, just bold. Critics might say you were guessing, and got it right, but then again all theories are educated guess work to some extent.

 

No, I never formed any theory about MQA’s performance potentials and/or limitations.  As for the technical aspects associated with digital formats, I’m pretty much out to lunch and have little interest there.  

 

When I make my allegations of fraud against MQA, et al, I'm relying on my albeit limited understanding and convictions that are based solely on my experiences with audible performance potentials and limitations within various parts of a given playback system’s vineyard.  The source and associated recording formats being just one part of the vineyard with little or no overlap into other parts of the vineyard.  

 

Had I based my allegations of fraud on a theory about MQA’s performance as you seem to insist, bold is hardly the word I would choose.  Besides, if that were the case I would hope I'd have the wisdom to abstain from warning others of this fraud because such allegations would have no substance or proof and thus could be actionable in a court of law.  Unless perhaps I clearly stated it’s all just a theory, which I never did.

 

That’s not to say I haven’t formulated several probabilities of what has motived those behind the MQA propaganda machine.

 

22 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

As said there is no such thing as an immutable theory - they change with evidence - and are mutable. You can never prove a theory, only refute it. You therefore by definition have every right to challenge existing theory irrespective of its source (except if its mine ?)

 

stop thinking in terms of immutable. Its still remains the most accurate method of exploring the real world, if you believe in the scientific method , that is

 

Prior to Shadder’s recent comment on “established and immutable theory”, I’ve never heard of such a phrase.  Immutable law, yes.  Immutable theory, no.

[Shadders]

2 minutes ago, shtf said:

Prior to Shadder’s recent comment on “established and immutable theory”, I’ve never heard of such a phrase.  Immutable law, yes.  Immutable theory, no.

Hi,

I used the word immutable, since it has held the test of time, and we do have 150 years of electrical/comms theory. So, given the advancements in communications theory, technology and implementations, if there was a flaw in the theory, it will have been presented by now.

 

It seems that charlatans will target the gullible, and there are many in the audio world. They DON'T try this crap with engineers in the non-audio world - they would not get away with it. This is why the audio prophets do not publish papers in the IEEE/IET.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

 

50 minutes ago, shtf said:

 

No, I never formed any theory about MQA’s performance potentials and/or limitations. 

 

On 6/7/2018 at 5:13 PM, shtf said:

3.5 years ago I was among the first, maybe even the first, to rightfully call MQA an out-and-out fraud.  And possibly several years prior to some of you here.  At that time, I even went so far as to say it was impossible for MQA or any other current or future digital format to achieve performance levels even remotely close to their claims.  

 

For example , the statement "impossible for MQA or any other current or future digital format to achieve performance levels even remotely close to their claims"  is theory, unless you know it to be fact. I don't want to argue the point tho, by all means make up whatever facts you like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Indydan]

19 hours ago, Brinkman Ship said:

For reference, here is one of the most unhinged, personal attacks on a reporter you are ever going to see:

 

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/why-wsj-writer-neil-shahs-career-over

There is also this gem.

 

http://www.high-endaudio.com/RR-FREMER-A.html

[beetlemania]

57 minutes ago, Indydan said:

There is also this gem.

 

http://www.high-endaudio.com/RR-FREMER-A.html

 

Even RH and JV might be more credible than Salvatore ?

[Brinkman Ship]

6 hours ago, FredericV said:

In several cases, even redbook is preferred over MQA.

This seems to be a common theme among non press listening reports...

[Brinkman Ship]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

I don't think there is anything nefarious there. He likes and uses the products and simply thinks they should be mentioned in every review as part of his playback system, so the playback context is understood. There are other audio sites where the review protocol requires the playback system components to be mentioned/listed. 

I agree. I just think he is a fan boy. Nothing else going on.

[FredericV]

1 minute ago, Brinkman Ship said:

This seems to be a common theme among non press listening reports...

Tried the Girl from ipanema, redbook rip vs several MQA versions on Tidal. Same conclusion.

[Brinkman Ship]

11 hours ago, esldude said:

Did TAS ever make money?  When Harry Pearson still had it for some time it had no ads.  Then limited ads.  Subscriptions were high and did apparently cover cost of the magazine.  I don't know if it made money until after 1998.  

Yes, it did. Pearson at one point was flush with cash. He apparently blew every penny on younger companions and basically was left with nothing in the end.

[beetlemania]

2 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

I agree. I just think he is a fan boy. Nothing else going on.

 

Plaskin is pretty much one of us. He is now a retired podiatrist, according to the bio at his new place Audio Beat. He participated for years on AudioAsylum as a regular inmate and somehow got into reviewing at Audiostream. Probably not much different than the guest writers that Mr. Connaker has on. For some reason, some members on CA excoriate him now. Maybe cuz he claimed he heard a difference with Ethernet cables - BURN HIM!!! HE'S A WITCH!!!

/end snark/

I don't recall that he's had much to write about MQA, but I have no reason to suspect anything unethical with his multiple Shunyata and Synergistic pieces. Chances are he really likes them and bought them on discount pricing - same discount he could have gotten from most other manufacturers. That said, it's also possible they are "long term loaners". Valin and Fremer have been known to engage in this shady practice.

[beetlemania]

12 minutes ago, FredericV said:

Tried the Girl from ipanema, redbook rip vs several MQA versions on Tidal. Same conclusion.

 

Who knew that Newton, Galileo, and Einstein were so overrated?

[mav52]

17 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

Yes, it did. Pearson at one point was flush with cash. He apparently blew every penny on younger companions and basically was left with nothing in the end.

And you know this how, ?  

[Brinkman Ship]

5 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

 

Plaskin is pretty much one of us. He is now a retired podiatrist, according to the bio at his new place Audio Beat. He participated for years on AudioAsylum as a regular inmate and somehow got into reviewing at Audiostream. Probably not much different than the guest writers that Mr. Connaker has on. For some reason, some members on CA excoriate him now. Maybe cuz he claimed he heard a difference with Ethernet cables - BURN HIM!!! HE'S A WITCH!!!

/end snark/

I don't recall that he's had much to write about MQA, but I have no reason to suspect anything unethical with his multiple Shunyata and Synergistic pieces. Chances are he really likes them and bought them on discount pricing - same discount he could have gotten from most other manufacturers. That said, it's also possible they are "long term loaners". Valin and Fremer have been known to engage in this shady practice.

I think that is a very accurate. He is a well to do medical professional is Southern California with a 250K system. He does not need to be on the take. He just likes that stuff and some really fringe products for that matter.

 

I think the only reason he was given a hard time was his blind loyalty to Lavorgna.  I actually think Plaskin could not care less about MQA.

[Brinkman Ship]

2 minutes ago, mav52 said:

And you know this how, ?  

Specifically stated and written about by his inner circle. Public record.

 

For that matter they also said he was a dead beat, would not return gear upon request, treated

people very badly, and went bankrupt.

[mav52]

7 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

Specifically stated and written about by his inner circle. Public record.

 

For that matter they also said he was a dead beat, would not return gear upon request, treated

people very badly, and went bankrupt.

Where is this Public Record, I would like to read it.   I've read this https://www.analogplanet.com/content/audio-legend-harry-pearson-passes-away#71yAXaix2hplOTY8.97 but its notes nothing of what you wrote.

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, Brinkman Ship said:

basically was left with nothing in the end

 

If I didn't have a wife and daughter, that's exactly what I'd want at the end as well.

 

 

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”

 

― Hunter S. Thompson, The Proud Highway: Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman, 1955-1967

[Brinkman Ship]

3 minutes ago, mav52 said:

Where is this Public Record, I would like to read it.   I've read this https://www.analogplanet.com/content/audio-legend-harry-pearson-passes-away#71yAXaix2hplOTY8.97 but its notes nothing of what you wrote.

Google is your friend. Tons of posts on AA and other places by his inner circle.

 

Here is the last best part. He had over a million dollars worth of gear in his house that he kept (stole), and his estate tried to sell it on Audiogon after he passed. There was outrage from the community and they had to cease.

[Brinkman Ship]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

If I didn't have a wife and daughter, that's exactly what I'd want at the end as well.

 

 

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”

 

― Hunter S. Thompson, The Proud Highway: Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman, 1955-1967

Hmmmmm.?