MQA is Vaporware

[UkPhil]

Looks like the fan boy site is getting a bit of hammering too 

[UkPhil]

13 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

That will in both cases sound shitty but slightly less shitty when played by MQA taxed cartridge.. 

BTW some MQA video equivalent.? 

I think some movies deserve deblurring.. and some extra tax of course..

 

A new strap line for future  

“welcome to the shit-show marketing play. Better sound (and vision) through confusion The MQA way.”

[UkPhil]

9 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

(from Tidal)

 

OK, this is what happened:

 

 

Apologies for the layout. Also don't mind the selected tracks here and there.

 

The first two you see (also look in the headers) today are MQA. They compare with the first two you see on the second line. Mind the MQA Album ID (71382919). This album ID did not change.

The content DID change (I looked into the files) and is now probably MQA indeed.

Whether the album with ID ending at 19 is the same as the one ending at 25, I did not check. However,

 

 

The MQA versions now exists two times (notice this is a double album, each volume separately shown here).

So their batch run did not take into account the already existing ones (for 44.1 which there all are, at least) and indeed overwrote the normal CD versions with MQA versions.

 

This is how it was:

 

 

 

 

 

 

MQA by stealth, this is shocking not even giving consumers choice, my fear is these files are now stored ready to shift into other platforms. If one of the lossy companies give into them if could have consequences in the future of PCM. 

[UkPhil]

3 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Watch the RMAF 2018 MQA video with Chris.  Those are the MQA people.  That's the MQA attitude.

I was attracted in what MQA had to offer in early 2018 but that video and this forum opened my eyes to that it wasn’t anything but a power grab for the industry to pull back control and increase revenue for all concerned with no choice for the consumer, let’s hope this is the last ditch attempt but I think we are in for a rocky ride,  PCM may become a precious commodity 

[UkPhil]

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Which is interesting. Implies that it's not too difficult to get rid of the MQA 'envelope', subjectively. So, we lose 7 bits from a 24 bit waveform, 17 left - plenty enough to do Redbook, which I'm fine with.

But what about the latest loading of files by Warner’s, these are not 24 bit containers we are only starting with 16 bit here. This proves to me that the long term goal is to control “all” files under the MQA banner for the consumer. They have no interest in bit depth or sample rate, these files are broken from their originals plus choice has been taken away from the listener without a lot of them knowing. To me it’s worse than the MP3 days as their were still choices which may not be the case in the future. 

[UkPhil]

8 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Legendary self pronounced expert Veter Peth has announced that it is no longer necessary to go to the symphony.

" MQA produces music that is better than live.  MQA corrects all the errors that are introduced in live music.  Now you can hear music as it should have been played.  MQA uses magic algorithms that correct the music to what the composer imagined."

They must have seen COVID-19 coming at least we can sit at home isolate and save money on the ticket and enjoy real “live” music on our smart speaker with our £99 MQA DAC...lol

[UkPhil]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Yes.

Unfortunately so https://premiumsound.co.uk/product/hifi-separates/cd-players/technics-sl-g700-compact-disc-player/?dTribesID=22a27fce1fa82719e4d5dfae65ca69cd|adtribes|16638&utm_source=Google Shopping&utm_campaign=Premium Sound&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=16638&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIovLO5I-Z7QIVj5CyCh0gVgCOEAQYASABEgKeSfD_BwE

[UkPhil]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Not a chance. 

Who would want to buy them again 13 bit with DRM 

[UkPhil]

16 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Legendary music expert Veter Peth has announced that MQA has added a fourth unfold.  This will light the 32/768 display and will light FOUR blue lights on the new MQA decoder.

Magazine editor Herbert Rawley pronounced this the greatest scientific breakthrough since God created earth.

And where are there going to hide that one they are going to have to move to 32bit lol

[UkPhil]

26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Too bad for them. I did :~)

This section may becoming a reality looking at Warner’s latest work

 

 

[UkPhil]

26 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

I just thought of an other stupidity:

 

Although I myself would be able to manipulate the lot, normal Tidal users will not be able to compare the Redbook version with the now MQA version it was replaced with, because ... the Redbook version was replaced; we can't play that any more.

 

How sneaky is that eh ?

And most listeners 

 

a) won’t notice it’s changed sonically 

 

b) but if told they have been changed will suddenly say they are all sounding better 

 

[UkPhil]

1 hour ago, MikeyFresh said:

Yes but only with an MQA hardware decoder performing exactly 3.5 unfolds, it's the only way to get that special proprietary sample rate, and an authentic rendering of what the artist intended.

 

There's additional de-blurring as well, such that you are hearing it as if in the vacuum of space, with no atmosphere to smear the time domain at all.

 

There's more to MQA than you think... COMING SOON: a 4th Unfold reveals an alternate universe, and it's Lossless!

It’s beginning to sound like a chapter from hitchhikers guide to the galaxy that was fiction too 🤪

[UkPhil]

Found this article from Oct 2020 in Australia, Bob intimates what’s just happened and the future

https://www.stereo.net.au/features/inside-track-bob-stuart-mqa

 

“let’s make a standard”

[UkPhil]

Dug out my Pro-Ject S2 DAC to check the Tidal files since the Warner update and I can confirm If you wind down a 16/44.1 MASTER to HIFI you still get the same MQA file regardless of your settings so standard DAC’s will go into digital limp mode 

 

Warner’s file 

[UkPhil]

The same test done with a Universal owned album,  the MASTER plays MQA wind it down to HIFI and we get PCM 44.1 at the moment 

 

 

[UkPhil]

1 hour ago, Rexp said:

How about Warner (hires) masters streamed at the Hifi setting? Thanks! 

The Carpenters is an album from the universal company stable this is a master but if I select Hifi, IE no interest in MQA I get the PCM 44.1 file not the 24/48 base MQA file I will check a Warner’s tonight for you 

[UkPhil]

Was this an early format name for MQA, it doesn't roll off the tongue as well though.....lol

 

"DOUBLY COMPATIBLE LOSSLESS AUDIO BANDWIDTH EXTENSION"   

 

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2013186561&recNum=132&maxRec=599628&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=nano+OR+filter+OR+ceramic&tab=PCT+Biblio

 

 

[UkPhil]

58 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I am not aware of this ever been released in 24 bit commercially, 

the closest 24bit would the DVD audio layer which no doubt if extracted would be 24/48

[UkPhil]

5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Bob has replied 

[UkPhil]

37 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Perhaps because only four people would buy it. 
 

Someday MQA will go away because no technology is around forever. Who wants to be stuck with crippled music? 

Let’s hope your right,  but the train is still not off the  rails and has gathered speed again with no sign of stopping at the moment, will be interested to see what the next filed accounts look like 

 

 

[UkPhil]

24 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Let me correct that, “And yet they thought it would make money to release MQA-CD cds to the consumer ...”

I think the Japanese like formats, it was one of Bob’s earliest ventures in selling MQA and getting them on board with the tech but it’s stalling no doubt not seen many new releases of late 

[UkPhil]

3 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

Wow!  All those albums were AUTHENTICATED!

MQA must have spent tens of thousands  or hundreds of thousands of hours AUTHENTICATING that music!

Before  the studio gave the master to MQA it wasn't AUTHENTICATED.  MQA blessed the master, burned incense, and performed a ceremony officiated by his Holiness, Bob Stuart.  The master was then born into AUTHENTICATION!

 

Blessed be MQA!  For until you give yourself up to MQA,  You cannot enter into AUTHENTICATION!

Most of them are not Studio just conversions from what’s on file (green dot) nothing to fold so we are locking them away in a proprietary system in readiness to distribute beyond Tidal no doubt 

[UkPhil]

58 minutes ago, FredericV said:

MQA coding is not even reaching Shannon, so how can this be named Post-shannon?

Today I saw the docu named "The Bit Player", which is about Shannon:

https://thebitplayer.com/

At the end of the docu, they show a French team which actually reached the Shannon limit.

Now MQA claims it is post-Shannon. To go beyond Shannon, we would at least assume they are able to reach Shannon. To reach Shannon, their codec should reach the Shannon limit, and therefore the encoded data, should not be able to reduced further.

Now if we can use open source tools to do the same as in MQA's patent, that is decimate the audio to 17 bits at 2x base rate, what will we get?

Let's take a 24 bit 352.8K file from 2L.no, which is 410M:

410M    2L-106_stereo_DXD-352k_MAGNIFICAT_04.flac

when we look at the MQA file, which was encoded using 17/88.2 dithering, we get a 52M file:

52M     2L-106_04_stereo_DXD_FLAC.mqa.flac

 

When using sox to several dithering precisions (e.g. 8 bit, 13 bit, 20 bit), we see that sox can reach at least 19/88.2 in the same coding space as MQA's 17/88.2, and that 17/88.2 when done with sox, is almost 30% more effcient than MQA

Example for 19 bit precision using 24 bit 88.2K encoded flac:

 

[root@master MAGNIFICAT 4. Et misericordia]# sox -D -V 2L-106_stereo_DXD-352k_MAGNIFICAT_04.flac -b 24 1988.flac rate -vsM 88.2k dither -p 19
sox:      SoX v14.4.1
sox INFO formats: detected file format type `flac'

Input File     : '2L-106_stereo_DXD-352k_MAGNIFICAT_04.flac'
Channels       : 2
Sample Rate    : 352800
Precision      : 24-bit
Duration       : 00:04:55.21 = 104151264 samples ~ 22141 CDDA sectors
File Size      : 409M
Bit Rate       : 11.1M
Sample Encoding: 24-bit FLAC
Endian Type    : little
Reverse Nibbles: no
Reverse Bits   : no
Comments       :
ALBUM=MAGNIFICAT
ALBUMARTIST=Nidarosdomens jentekor & TrondheimSolistene
ARTIST=Nidarosdomens jentekor & TrondheimSolistene
BARCODE=7041888519621
CATALOGNUMBER=7041888519621
COMMENT=Generated by Merging Technologies Album Publishing
Label Code: 2L
COMPOSER=Kim Andre Arnesen
DATE=2014
DISCNUMBER=1
ENCODEDBY=Merging Technologies Album Publishing
GENRE=Classical
ISRC=NOMPP1407040
LABEL=2L
TITLE=Arnesen: MAGNIFICAT 4. Et misericordia
TRACKNUMBER=4
TRACKTOTAL=10

sox INFO flac: encoding at 24 bits per sample
sox INFO flac: non-standard rate; output may not be streamable

Output File    : '1988.flac'
Channels       : 2
Sample Rate    : 88200
Precision      : 24-bit
Duration       : 00:04:55.21 = 26037816 samples ~ 22141 CDDA sectors
Sample Encoding: 24-bit FLAC
Endian Type    : little
Reverse Nibbles: no
Reverse Bits   : no
Comments       :
ALBUM=MAGNIFICAT
ALBUMARTIST=Nidarosdomens jentekor & TrondheimSolistene
ARTIST=Nidarosdomens jentekor & TrondheimSolistene
BARCODE=7041888519621
CATALOGNUMBER=7041888519621
COMMENT=Generated by Merging Technologies Album Publishing
Label Code: 2L
COMPOSER=Kim Andre Arnesen
DATE=2014
DISCNUMBER=1
ENCODEDBY=Merging Technologies Album Publishing
GENRE=Classical
ISRC=NOMPP1407040
LABEL=2L
TITLE=Arnesen: MAGNIFICAT 4. Et misericordia
TRACKNUMBER=4
TRACKTOTAL=10

sox INFO sox: effects chain: input       352800Hz  2 channels
sox INFO sox: effects chain: rate         88200Hz  2 channels
sox INFO sox: effects chain: dither       88200Hz  2 channels
sox INFO sox: effects chain: output       88200Hz  2 channels
[root@master MAGNIFICAT 4. Et misericordia]# du --si *88.flac
13M     0888.flac
22M     1388.flac
37M     1788.flac
49M     1988.flac
56M     2088.flac
[root@master MAGNIFICAT 4. Et misericordia]# du --si 2L-106_04_stereo_DXD_FLAC.mqa.flac
52M     2L-106_04_stereo_DXD_FLAC.mqa.flac

So Tidal would save a lot more bandwidth if they just dither the actual masters to 17/96 or 17/88.2 for 2x or higher rate input files. How does MQA save bandwidth again?

Unfortunately audio is not the priority controlling consumer choice and creating a financial flow is 

[UkPhil]

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I’m afraid you’re correct.
 

Is there any way to get this confirmed officially? I understand Tidal added, but a google search doesn’t say replace. Or remove. Yes, I noticed (some) albums is only MQA. Now actually 2 versions of MQA. 16 and 24 bit. This doesn’t make sense at all. Why this 16 bit version ? Anyone has a good explanation ?
 

I hope we can get some official statements, cause Tidal or Warner doing this without actually telling people isn’t acceptable.

 

 

 

This could be a start of creating the “controlled” distribution of a common file which could find its way been sent to other streaming sites as it may only be the file available 

 

These quotes are from Bob Stuart recently :

.” MQA is now used in the whole of Warner Music new and back catalogue, and Universal’s too – plus Sony is coming, and a lot of the independent label”

 

“The audio industry has tended to be made up of hundreds of small enterprises, there have been very few companies that could stand up and say, “let’s make a standard”. That was done when for vinyl LP and CD”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[UkPhil]

4 minutes ago, firedog said:

Question about MQA DACs: is it true that newer DAC chips that incorporate MQA know how to switch filters automatically between MQA and non MQA filters, depending on program material? I'm thinking about chips like the AK4497 and the newest ESS chips. I was told this, wat to know if it's true.

I know my Project S2 DAC switches in and out of MQA as there is a noticeable gap in sound when standard PCM is detected as it switches on and off, plus speaking to John Westlake the designer he confirmed this, no guarantee this is done on all DAC’s equipped this way,  I believe one of SMSL DAC’s stayed on