MQA is Vaporware

[esldude]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Please show me the post calling him a whore and I will happily enforce the same standards. 

Here is the post where the term was used.  I will point out I tried in several posts to create a bridge of conversation with BL.  He obviously has zero interest in that.  The whore comment wasn't so much to say he was one.  But to point out if one wanted to to pre-judge someone, there were plenty of ways to pre-judge his activities in negative light.  The very ways he thought gave him credibility.  That he had so many clients we should all quit complaining and listen to the wise Brian Lucey mastering genius extraordinaire. In context of a few posts between he and I it was meant to try one more time to get his attention as being subtle wasn't working.  Reading back over it I think that context wasn't very clear. 

 

If Chris thinks that should result in a ban, then okay. 

[Shadders]

2 minutes ago, esldude said:

Here is the post where the term was used.  I will point out I tried in several posts to create a bridge of conversation with BL.  He obviously has zero interest in that.  The whore comment wasn't so much to say he was one.  But to point out if one wanted to to pre-judge someone, there were plenty of ways to pre-judge his activities in negative light.  The very ways he thought gave him credibility.  That he had so many clients we should all quit complaining and listened to the wise Brian Lucey mastering extraordinaire. In context of a few posts between he and I it was meant to try one more time to get his attention as being subtle wasn't working.  Reading back over it I think that context wasn't very clear. 

 

If Chris thinks that should result in a ban, then okay. 

Stone him, i say, stone him....

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, esldude said:

Here is the post where the term was used.  I will point out I tried in several posts to create a bridge of conversation with BL.  He obviously has zero interest in that.  The whore comment wasn't so much to say he was one.  But to point out if one wanted to to pre-judge someone, there were plenty of ways to pre-judge his activities in negative light.  The very ways he thought gave him credibility.  That he had so many clients we should all quit complaining and listen to the wise Brian Lucey mastering genius extraordinaire. In context of a few posts between he and I it was meant to try one more time to get his attention as being subtle wasn't working.  Reading back over it I think that context wasn't very clear. 

 

If Chris thinks that should result in a ban, then okay. 

 

I'll use the same rules with you as I did Brian. 

 

This is a warning.

 

 

P.S. I always give people warnings and hope to come out with a win-win in the long run. I don't need to tell you about personal attacks and I totally understand your context. With Brian things were much different, but the same rules applied. He received warnings. Hell, I even offered to meet with him next week while I'm in Los Angeles. 

[esldude]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I'll use the same rules with you as I did Brian. 

 

This is a warning.

 

 

P.S. I always give people warnings and hope to come out with a win-win in the long run. I don't need to tell you about personal attacks and I totally understand your context. With Brian things were much different, but the same rules applied. He received warnings. Hell, I even offered to meet with him next week while I'm in Los Angeles. 

Alright.  Thanks Chris.  I'll be more circumspect in future comments.  Should have just put BL on ignore. 

[rando]

There might be something to this subject after all.  I found much more clarity appeared during the second unfold. 

 

Just maybe I will go out and rebuy my music to fully capture the magic!

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, rando said:

There might be something to this subject after all.  I found much more clarity appeared during the second unfold. 

 

Just maybe I will go out and rebuy my music to fully capture the magic!

 

Good luck with that. Neither my reference albums or the six albums available in Europe I mentioned a couple months ago are all available in the Valley of the Sun yet.

[#Yoda#]

On 30.11.2017 at 10:49 AM, semente said:

 

How do you know whether or not 22/44.1 or 24/48 isn't THE real master quality for that particular file?

 

Of course, I don't know it for any particular album (file), I expressed my general impression. There are many artists who published their new albums in the recent years in 24/88.2 or even higher resolutions and now switched to 24/44.1 or /48 with their latest album. What may be the reason?

By the way Brian Lucey is not the only experienced mastering engineer who posts on public or closed forums. Guys like Bruce Botnick, Bob Katz or Bob Ludwig (before he was on the payroll of MQA) have told other stories about HiRes recordings and mastering. Conversations with several other mastering engineers at the previous HighEnd Shows in Munich confirmed that 24/44.1 is not the standard in recording, mixing and mastering nowadays.

[Rt66indierock]

16 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

 

What was the difference between the customers Klipsch cultivated and the audiophiles he disliked?  During his heyday, Klipsch speakers were expensive and purchased only by people serious about stereo gear.  That was long before Mark Levinson, TAS, etc. invented modern "audiophilia".

 

Paul Klipsch believed placing speakers in corners made a stereo image in the largest part of the room. He was not a fan creating a sweet spot stereo image. In the words of Ken Kessler “he wrote a massive rebuttal of all (audiophiles) hold dear, back in 1958.”

 

In the seventies there were a large group people who enjoyed high performance audio but to them audio and listening to music were social. So you wanted a large stereo image lots of people could enjoy. People are always amazed today when I tell them at the PAC 12 university I attended even the cheer leaders could tell the difference between Advent Loudspeakers, AR-3a’s and JBL L-100’s. This is the group high end audio could never reach. We discovered Klipsch Heresy speakers could really rock even though Paul Klipsch considered “rock music” to be an oxymoron.

 

But consider me biased because I enjoy a pair of Klipsch Heresy II speakers I owned since I stopped being a consultant in the broadcasting industry in 1988. And I like people who did more than audio. Paul had three patents in ballistics, eight in geophysics and twelve in audio.

 

He would have had the same opinion about MQA as my friend Charley Hansen had utter bullshit.

[asdf1000]

48 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

even the cheer leaders could tell the difference between Advent Loudspeakers, AR-3a’s and JBL L-100’s.

 

This is the coolest thing I’ve ever read on this forum. Sorry for going off topic but it deserves kudos. Most importantly, the cheer leaders deserve major kudos.

 

 

 

[firedog]

5 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

even the cheer leaders could tell the difference between Advent Loudspeakers, AR-3a’s and JBL L-100’s.

 

And which one did they prefer?

[FredericV]

Looking at the Neil Young topic, it seems they use true lossless 24/192 streaming which is using less than 5 mbit.
 

At this bitrate you can stream real 24/192 PCM. Better than MQA's 17/96 resolution of the first unfold (see video of Jaap Veenstra where uncle Bob explains that MQA is 17 bits of actual resolution), upsampled to fake 24/192 with leaky filters and severe aliasing (discovered by researchers en reverse engineers Archimago and Mansr).

In my country 200 mbit is now pretty standard, so I can stream 40 Neil Young streams. Gigabit is now on the rise. In 20 years, our data speed reached a factor 1000. The shelf life of MQA's compression benefit is therefore very short and will soon expire, just like MP3's compression benefit has expired thanks to very fast broadband.

PCM is here to stay.

[Rt66indierock]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

 

And which one did they prefer?

 

For dance music JBL L-100. There was a place called Earthquake Ethel's filled with L-100s. But at my school rodeo was a varsity sport so stacked Advents were popular for country.

[crenca]

19 hours ago, #Yoda# said:

 

Of course, I don't know it for any particular album (file), I expressed my general impression. There are many artists who published their new albums in the recent years in 24/88.2 or even higher resolutions and now switched to 24/44.1 or /48 with their latest album. What may be the reason?

By the way Brian Lucey is not the only experienced mastering engineer who posts on public or closed forums. Guys like Bruce Botnick, Bob Katz or Bob Ludwig (before he was on the payroll of MQA) have told other stories about HiRes recordings and mastering. Conversations with several other mastering engineers at the previous HighEnd Shows in Munich confirmed that 24/44.1 is not the standard in recording, mixing and mastering nowadays.

 

Yes, what is the reason?  At some point in the past few years, independently of the promise of MQA, did the labels/artists become self aware of their "crown jewels" problematic?  Did the DRM segregation of standard vs. "hi res" promise of MQA become something to adjust to (i.e. they decided to stop releasing "hi res" in PCM)?  Something other reason entirely?

[Rt66indierock]

I just got back from the Los Angeles and Orange County County Audio Society Gala Celebration and Bacquet. 

 

I didn't expect to attend an industry event. I'm going write about it in a seperate thread but it was a DSD and vinyl lovefest. After acknowledging personal audio is dominating everything.

 

[mcgillroy]

8 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

. After acknowledging personal audio is dominating everything.

 

 

What is personal audio?

[PeterSt]

Sony Walkman.

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, mcgillroy said:

 

What is personal audio?

 

Headphones 

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Sony Walkman.

 

I heard a couple of vendors say they were going to focus on CanJam at the 2018 Los Angeles Audio Show and not have rooms.

[PeterSt]

3 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

and not have rooms.

 

Good idea. New means of huge cost saving ?

Would the organizers allow such a thing ? Could even be done outside.

 

This is what you referred to, right ?

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

Good idea. New means of huge cost saving ?

Would the organizers allow such a thing ? Could even be done outside.

 

This is what you referred to, right ?

 

At the shows I go to foot traffic is very high in the CanJam area. 

 

I was with the orgianzer of the Los Angeles Audio Show when vendor said they were not getting show rooms. 

[JoeWhip]

The Canjam rooms are always packed. It is really where the action is in this hobby, at least with those under 40.

[synn]

MQA listening experience update.

 

The Onkyo DP S1 arrived. Finally, I have one device to test PCM, DSD and MQA on.

 

its about the size of a credit card holder. Sounds rather nice, but this is the second device with ESS Saber chips that I have found to sound rather clinical. I wonder if that’s their signature.

 

Tested a few tracks with my B&O H6 and B&W P7. Decided to do the comparison tests with the P7 as it has a more rounded sound. 

 

Quick check with the “Blågutten” track from 2L. PCM to MQA switching is not instantaneous. The player takes a few seconds before determining that it is an MQA track. Blue dot comes on. 352.8khz.

 

Very rough first impression is that the PCM 192khz file sounds more warm. The MQA file sounds a bit hollow in comparison. It is especially felt on the percussion. Then again, this was not a blind test.

 

tomorrow, I will copy the DSD file on to the card as well, put all three tracks in random and do a blind test and report back.

[Rt66indierock]

Something I just posted on Audio Asylum.

 

Dear John (Atkinson Editor Stereophile),

 

As the time for the January issue of Stereophile approaches I want to remind you and Jim MQA technology has already been analyzed and discussed. The agenda for debating MQA was set in January of this year so there was no need for me to frame the debate about MQA and its technology for Jim’s series.  As I said in my Dear Jim post a decision was made that MQA would have to be analyzed by people outside the audio industry.

 

What I put in my November 14, 2017 Dear Jim post are hurdles. The same hurdles my profession uses.  Are you competent to write this series?  Next hurdle will you look at both sides of the claims made by MQA Ltd for and against their technology and look at other alternatives? Third hurdle can you exercise professional judgement about the facts and the claims made? Only if you can clear these hurdles can you write an article and have the possibility of arriving at an objective conclusion.

 

I gave Jim some examples of topics that need to be covered. You wrote about Charley Hansen’s alternative to some of the issues MQA is claiming to solve. Peter St maker of XXHigh End wrote about his filters and mitchco wrote about Audiolense software and its filters on Computer Audiophile in the past week. It doesn’t seem to be hard to find alternatives to MQA.

 

Take care,

 

Stephen

[crenca]

4 hours ago, synn said:

 

its about the size of a credit card holder. Sounds rather nice, but this is the second device with ESS Saber chips that I have found to sound rather clinical. I wonder if that’s their signature.

 

 

That is their reputation, as it appears to be a trait no matter the implementation.  Is it a higher end tilt?

 

No doubt someone will post the exception however

[Samuel T Cogley]

6 hours ago, synn said:

MQA listening experience update.

 

The Onkyo DP S1 arrived. Finally, I have one device to test PCM, DSD and MQA on.

 

its about the size of a credit card holder. Sounds rather nice, but this is the second device with ESS Saber chips that I have found to sound rather clinical. I wonder if that’s their signature.

 

Tested a few tracks with my B&O H6 and B&W P7. Decided to do the comparison tests with the P7 as it has a more rounded sound. 

 

Quick check with the “Blågutten” track from 2L. PCM to MQA switching is not instantaneous. The player takes a few seconds before determining that it is an MQA track. Blue dot comes on. 352.8khz.

 

Very rough first impression is that the PCM 192khz file sounds more warm. The MQA file sounds a bit hollow in comparison. It is especially felt on the percussion. Then again, this was not a blind test.

 

tomorrow, I will copy the DSD file on to the card as well, put all three tracks in random and do a blind test and report back.

 

 

Thanks for this.  Your experience with MQA on a DP-S1 mirrors mine on a DP-X1.  I liked vanilla PCM better.