MQA is Vaporware

[lucretius]

15 hours ago, OldHardwareTech said:

You can apply dsp to MQA, it just has to be done post unfolding.

 

Yes. If you are satisfied with only the first "unfold" from the MQA core decoder in Roon (or other software), then you can apply DSP (without outputting to analog).  Also, if you wanted further "unfolds", I believe it could be done; you need an MQA renderer that supports rendering operation from Roon's MQA core decoder. (Some MQA DACS do not support this.)  Also, Meridian has DSP loud speakers that can accept the output from an MQA core decoder and can apply DSP, as well as, MQA rendering.  There are likely other options -- they just need to get between the MQA core decoder and the later MQA rendering.

[lucretius]

54 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

What if you use Roon to play an MQA-encrusted file from your own library? 

 

I believe royalties are paid for each time the mQa core decoder is activated (I'd have to verify this with Roon).  If you used a DAC that is a full decoder and renderer, you can turn off the decoder in Roon -- so no royalties paid from Roon; however, then you cannot have both DSP and mQa.  Of course, you already paid some royalties when you purchased an mQa DAC.  Maybe even Tidal must pay royalties?

 

[lucretius]

3 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

So if you subscribe to Roon, who pays royalties to MQA,  you can apply DSP? Seems like another layer of cost for the music consumer.

 

Roon directly pays the royalties.  Subscribers indirectly pay through subscription fees, which are likely offset by economies of scale (e.g. mQa and Tidal means more subscribers).  Since I am a lifer, I am not incurring any incremental costs. 

 

3 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

I realize that you receive benefits for promoting Roon, but I would not touch Roon with a ten foot pole. Tidal and Roon are propping up a scheme that screws the music consumer. Without Tidal and Roon, MQA has virtually nothing.

 

The benefit I receive is somewhat questionable.  When someone signs up for Roon using a referral link, the referrer receives one “referral credit”. Each “referral credit” can be converted into an extra 30 days of Roon tacked on to your current Roon subscription.  However, since I am a lifer, I don't need an extra 30 days of Roon nor do I need a second license.  I don't care if I receive nothing. I am happy for those using the referral link because they will receive an extra 30 days of Roon.

 

Roon is simply providing a service.  It seems that mQa and the Tidal thing brings them more subscribers.  More subscribers is a good thing for both Roon and current subscribers, since it helps overall to keep costs down and hence subscription fees.  If you were a Roon subscriber, would you be happy if Roon chased away all its "mQa/Tidal subscribers" and raised the cost of subscriptions?

 

3 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

That is just my personal perspective. I could not in good conscience support anyone that supports MQA.

 

I understand your position.

[lucretius]

3 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

Perhaps MQA is a cult. Perhaps BS is their Jim Jones.

 

Between these two individuals, Jim Jones was the charismatic one.  In addition to mQa, perhaps I should also pronounce Tidal dead?

[lucretius]

14 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

So you're sayin' your DACs are vaccinated :~)

 

The DACs that received the approved vaccine come with a yellow light indicator.  😀

[lucretius]

2 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

None of my DACs are MQA-enabled and I don't really care about decoding/unfolding them.   

 

You could still turn off the decoder in Roon, if you chose to use that software.  😃

 

 

[lucretius]

2 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

I believe royalties are paid for each time the mQa core decoder is activated (I'd have to verify this with Roon*).  If you used a DAC that is a full decoder and renderer, you can turn off the decoder in Roon -- so no royalties paid from Roon; however, then you cannot have both DSP and mQa.  Of course, you already paid some royalties when you purchased an mQa DAC.  Maybe even Tidal must pay royalties?

 

*Edit:  I see that Danny/Roon confirmed this on the Roon forum.

[lucretius]

To be clear, any user can disable the mQa decoder in Roon:

 

 

 

[lucretius]

5 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

 

Easier yet, just avoid Roon.

 

For me, there is no equivalent to Roon.  And since what I paid for the lifetime billing is a sunk cost, Roon costs me nothing.

[lucretius]

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

Woudn't disabling the mqa core decoder have you stream mqa that didn't even go through the first unfolding algorithm which (to my ears) is audible? It seems better to avoid mqa altogether..  

 

 

I thought this would be obvious.  If you don't have any mQa files or mQa streams (e.g. Tidal), then this discussion is moot.  Some folks expressed concerned about royalties being sent to mQa Ltd. by Roon and these folks may be streaming mQa through Tidal or they may be playing mQa files that are stored locally.  Turning off the mQa core decoder in Roon stops any royalties from Roon to mQa Ltd.

[lucretius]

15 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

Curious as to what your connection is to Roon, a system that promotes MQA.

 

I thought I made myself perfectly clear earlier.  I have no connection to Roon nor am I receiving any benefits from referrerals. 

 

Roon doesn't promote mQa at all. Apparently, Danny from Roon doesn't even like it.  But Roon does provide a service to subscribers who want mQa/Tidal.  Earlier, I presented to you, the business argument why Roon would entertain mQa/Tidal subscribers. I have no influence over the business decisions made by Roon. Yes, Roon is a business, not an armchair activity.

 

15 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

And you actively promote Roon, offering deals.

I'm curious as to what the thought process is there.

 

Did we not go through this before?  So I reiterate, I am happy for those using the referral link I posted because they will receive an extra 30 days of Roon. Yes, Roon isn't for you.

 

15 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

Roon is keeping Tidal afloat.

 

I disagree. You can stream Tidal various ways without Roon.  Also, in Canada for example, we do not have access to Qobuz, so for streaming we fall back on Tidal.

[lucretius]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Having a Roon referral URL in your signature on a "crass scale of 1-10" is about an 8.

 

The URL has been removed.  Tough crowd!

[lucretius]

4 hours ago, UkPhil said:

Looking at the latest exported Tidal data there are approx 3500 MQA items that are only 16/44.1 released in the last week that have Sony / Columbia as it’s copyright 

 

@KeenObserverwill need to start boycotting all the major labels, various audiophile music players (including Audirvana and Amarra), many makers of DACs, streamers, amps with DACs, CD players with an MQA decoder, etc., and Qobuz (which hosts some MQA-CD), as well as, various audiophile websites (I dare not mention any names) that have any promotional links to any of the aforementioned.  😀

[lucretius]

30 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

The bottom line to me is this:

 

What is the sense of buying high end equipment if you are going to be playing MQA on it?

 

I agree, if mQa is all or mainly what you'd be playing, no sense in buying high-end equipment.

[lucretius]

45 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Roon is an active promoter of MQA.

 

Other than attracting mQa/Tidal folks by providing the facility to stream Tidal and decode mQa (just like Audirvana and Amarra), how is Roon actively promoting mQa?  Many of the Roon staff previously worked for Meridian* but Roon no longer has ties with Meridian, other than to make Roon available (i.e. to help Meridian make their equipment Roon ready -- which they will do for any manufacturer that is willing to work with them).  If Roon were to disappear, this would have only a negligible affect on Tidal or mQa.

 

*Are you going to hold Meridian employees personally responsible (even when they've changed employers)?

 

Quote

If Sony is now dumping this MQA crap on the market. then I would advocate boycotting Sony.

 

Why isn't Sony included in your signature?

[lucretius]

12 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Go online and read reviews of Roon.  All the ones I read emphasize the fact that Roon supports MQA.

Roon provides more than negligible support for MQA.

 

We are all free to do what we want. Do as you wish.

 

Roon "supports" mQa/Tidal in exactly the same way Audirvana and Amarra does, as mentioned earlier.  In the Roon forum you will find some mQa evangelists that are active posters -- they have no connection to Roon other than being customers.

 

15 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

As for me, I will avoid Tidal and Roon like the plague as long as they support MQA.

 

Similarly, you should also avoid Qobuz, Audirvana, and Amarra. And for consistency, that should be noted in your signature. 

 

 

[lucretius]

6 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Riddle me this:

 

Without MQA and Tidal would Roon exist?

 

I don't know.  Roon does get their fair share of mQa/Tidal customers.

 

 

7 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Without Tidal and Roon would MQA still exist?

 

You can make a reasonable argument that without Tidal, mQa would not exist.  Roon is irrelevant.

 

 

[lucretius]

15 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Those who brought us this licensing scheme have been exposed and are sitting on a spreadsheet I created in 2016. 

 

link?

[lucretius]

20 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Interesting to see Tidal labeling only track 8 as mQa. Roon labeling the entire album as 24/44.1, even though only track 8 says 24/44.1 at playback, and Roon not identifying track 8 as mQa on playback. This whole mQa thing removes all the ambiguity and shenanigans, just like Bob said :~)

 

 

 

 

Perhaps that is what mQa's last breath looks like?

[lucretius]

On 8/7/2021 at 5:45 PM, KeenObserver said:

 

This is the thing that baffles me. We are refining our music playback systems to the Nth degree and the studios want to give us crap like MQA.

I will say that I do have some outstanding recordings. Some of the smaller houses have been producing outstanding recordings. Mostly classical. BIS produces some outstanding recordings.

 

You sound like the right person to start an e-petition:

https://www.thepetitionsite.com/

 

[lucretius]

46 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Waiting for the next shoe to drop.

 

Universal?

[lucretius]

6 hours ago, Archimago said:

Whether MQA would have continued if Atkinson/Harley were not on board we would never know.

 

Honestly,  I think you are grossly overestimating the influence of these otherwise insignificant men or shameless little boys. They are not the Steve Jobs or Bill Gates of the audiophile world. JA and RH could barely sell magazines.

[lucretius]

My eyes are burning. Was that last link necessary?

[lucretius]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Just like the auto market. There are/were Yugos and Bentleys. Both get us to the grocery store. At least we have options. That's a great thing. 

 

There was a good chance that your Yugo would fail before getting to the grocery store.  🙂 

 

How do you double the value of a Yugo? Fill the gas tank.

 

What do you call a Yugo that breaks down after 100 miles? An overachiever.

[lucretius]

1 hour ago, Ryan Berry said:

I can't go into many details

Must have signed an NDA!