Lee Scoggins Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jud said: Let me tell you about a first-hand experience with Synergistic's description of one of its products, then suggest something you might do with the HFTs if you're interested. On the Audiostream website, one of the Synergistic products was being reviewed and discussed in the comments by various people including one of the Synergistic principals. Looking at the Synergistic website, I noted a description of one of their cables, saying that zapping it with a couple of million volts from a Van de Graaff generator treated the cable through "a process called quantum tunneling." I came back to Audiostream, and in the comments section noted that quantum tunneling occurs an uncountably infinite number of times in every tiniest bit of the universe every tiniest fraction of a second, and that zapping something with a Van de Graaff generator makes no difference to that. The next time I came back to the Synergistic website, the copy read that the cable was treated by the Van de Graaff generator through "a process we call quantum tunneling." Clever, eh? Just appropriate an actual term from quantum physics and make it say whatever you want. This has made me a bit skeptical - well, extremely skeptical, really - of other claims by Synergistic. Now, the suggestion about the HFTs: Unlike potentially subtle variations of noise and timing within a DAC, for example, changes in the frequency and/or timing response of a listening room are liable to be fairly large and readily measurable with calibrated mics and room response measurement software. Perhaps you'd like to do before and after room measurements with and without the HFTs? Jud, I would be interested in reading the Audiostream article...do you have a link? Do you know what SR product they were reviewing? I know the new editor (ex-Part-Time Audiophile) Rafe Arnott is a fan of the HFTs. There are two ways to use the HFTs: stand-alone and with an "Atmosphere" tower. The tower transmits waves that apparently excite the HFTs in a way to be more effective. Ted has promised to send me one to try. What I can tell you is that with careful placement, the system has more clarity and airiness in the highs with a room of HFTs. there are three types of standard HFT and a new "wider-angle" HFT which uses a different cone geometry. As for the zapping, I visited the factory earlier in the year and listened to a zapped and un-zapped cable. The zapped cable does sound better. Here is a photo of the Tesla Coil they use to send 2 million volts through the cable. Link to comment
Lee Scoggins Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, mansr said: The thing about those thimbles is, due to their size, they can't have any effect on frequencies below about 25 kHz. At higher frequencies their effect is also practically nil since they occupy only a very tiny portion of the total wall area. As scams go, it's hard to find one more obvious. You know this is total bullshit coming from an engineer. If you were the least bit curious, you would buy or borrow some and play around with them and you would indeed find that they do work. Not everything that works is obvious based on simple physics. Have a more open mind and get first-hand experience before pontificating on things you know nothing about. As the saying goes, a man with experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion. Ralf11 and MikeyFresh 2 Link to comment
mansr Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said: You know this is total bullshit coming from an engineer. If you were the least bit curious Curiosity is why I studied engineering. Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, mansr said: Curiosity is why I studied engineering. It's a shame that you lost your curiosity after becoming an engineer, and became so closed minded about what so many other members report in different areas of the forum such as Rajiv's very large thread, and the Uptone threads etc.. What Lee has reported here sounds highly unlikely to me too, but unlike you, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand until I had an opportunity to try them. The same applies to other items such as some from Bybee, which on the surface at least , appear to be just an encased very low value wire wound resistor (.025 ohm ?) , and Peter's Lush USB cables etc. Teresa 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Indydan Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 1:59 PM, Ralf11 said: not quite true - about 5% of his posts have been bragging about his stereo Lee has also bragged about knowing people like the Cheskys. He also let us know that the Cheskys are millionnaires... MikeyFresh 1 Link to comment
crenca Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 38 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said: You know this is total bullshit coming from an engineer.... It's just basic engineering and physics applied to a marketing claim. Heck it's just common sense because what you allegedly "hear" does not even pass the smell test. Marketing claim is probably too strong in that what you and Teddy sell is pure voodoo/snake oil. You play an audiophile confidence game, and this is one of the few places that calks you out on it. To sum up for you: you're the one who smells like bovine manure Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
Popular Post rickca Posted December 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 7, 2018 WTF happened to the MQA is Vaporware thread? Now we have a whole bunch of totally OT posts here. Please start another thread if you don't want to talk about MQA. @Rt66indierock please remove all this OT BS from your thread. Axiom05, mansr, MikeyFresh and 1 other 3 1 Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
FredericV Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said: Here is a photo of the Tesla Coil they use to send 2 million volts through the cable. 2 million volts? Really? Your technical facts are wrong. Maybe you came too close to the Tesla coil and now you'll need your head examined. Did you forgot to wear protective clothing? As 2 million volts will jump a lot further than what is shown in your picture. Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing. Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted December 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 7, 2018 why would an engineer - or even a barista working their way thru a science or engineering degree - WASTE their time on idiotic claims that violate well understood principles of physics??? I mean, DAMN !! kumakuma and FredericV 2 Link to comment
kumakuma Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: why would an engineer - or even a barista working their way thru a science or engineering degree - WASTE their time on idiotic claims that violate well understood principles of physics??? I mean, DAMN !! Even retired Telstra Principal Telecommunications Technical Officers probably have better things to do with their time than investigating the audio equivalent of trying to fly by flapping your arms... Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, kumakuma said: Even retired Telstra Principal Telecommunications Technical Officers probably have better things to do with their time than investigating the audio equivalent of trying to fly by flapping your arms... A typical smart arse reply by someone who always jumps to the defence of E.Es even though he isn't one himself. It's a shame that people like yourself reject outright the many real advances in the SQ of Computer Audio by numerous members in other areas of the forum. Still, if you are happy with the mediocrity of the audio from your own system ,just ignore the very real advances made elsewhere in other areas of the forum. I have no interest in anything further you have to say, so don't expect a reply. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Looks like it. Smells like it. Tastes like it. Good thing I didn't step in it! To deflect the deflection. Now, back on topic. Adopting MQA is the single worst thing the music industry could do. MikeyFresh 1 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post Rt66indierock Posted December 8, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, rickca said: WTF happened to the MQA is Vaporware thread? Now we have a whole bunch of totally OT posts here. Please start another thread if you don't want to talk about MQA. @Rt66indierock please remove all this OT BS from your thread. I like people to self-identify they are a problem to the hobby of high performance audio. Saves me a lot of trouble documenting who is a problem. The list generally grows steadily with with a few spikes when people get nervous about various authorities being questioned. In any case this thread will soon be over and all the craziness on display here will be documented. I will more ruthless in removing off topic posts in the "MQA is not Commercially Viable" thread. Hugo9000 and crenca 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said: I would be interested in reading the Audiostream article...do you have a link? Do you know what SR product they were reviewing? It was years ago, so I don't have a link and don't remember the product. Perhaps Ted does, since it apparently caused him to change web copy. 1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said: I know the new editor (ex-Part-Time Audiophile) Rafe Arnott is a fan of the HFTs. There are two ways to use the HFTs: stand-alone and with an "Atmosphere" tower. The tower transmits waves that apparently excite the HFTs in a way to be more effective. Ted has promised to send me one to try. What I can tell you is that with careful placement, the system has more clarity and airiness in the highs with a room of HFTs. there are three types of standard HFT and a new "wider-angle" HFT which uses a different cone geometry. I was in a dealer's listening room that had the HFTs. Didn't hear anything notable, though the dealer was excited about them at the time. A couple of months later they were gone, unremarked by the dealer. I didn't notice a change in the room's sound. Apologies for the OT, but I think the relationship between MQA and the Synergistic marketing is that both require a "willing suspension of disbelief" that to my mind isn't borne out by my listening experience or any data I've seen. (MQA at least does provably alter the signal.) Ralf11, crenca and Hugo9000 3 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 hours ago, mansr said: The thing about those thimbles is, due to their size, they can't have any effect on frequencies below about 25 kHz. At higher frequencies their effect is also practically nil since they occupy only a very tiny portion of the total wall area. As scams go, it's hard to find one more obvious. I was hopeful he might take up the measurement suggestion and determine that to his own satisfaction, but it doesn't appear likely. Confused 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post sandyk Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: Adopting MQA is the single worst thing the music industry could do. Perhaps not the single worst thing the music industry could do, but probably close to it. Does the general public need it , or want it ? There is nothing wrong with well implemented 24/192 or DSD which we already have. IF "deblurring" of high res LPCM is really advantageous for optimum playback, we should be devoting further research to that area , NOT introducing another proprietary format . Teresa, kumakuma and Hugo9000 3 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
kumakuma Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 25 minutes ago, sandyk said: A typical smart arse reply by someone who always jumps to the defence of E.Es even though he isn't one himself. I'm confused. How is agreeing with smart folks saying things that made sense a bad thing? Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, kumakuma said: I'm confused. How is agreeing with smart folks saying things that made sense a bad thing? BYE ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, sandyk said: Perhaps not the single worst thing the music industry could do, but probably close to it. Does the general public need it , or want it ? There is nothing wrong with well implemented 24/192 or DSD which we already have. IF "deblurring" of high res LPCM is really advantageous for optimum playback, we should be devoting further research to that area , NOT introducing another proprietary format . This is very well put. What is "wrong" with an established HiRes format tho, is that parasites cannot profit off of it - only artists and their labels, not MQA. sandyk and Teresa 2 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, sandyk said: If this logic held, we'd all be following you. mansr and Don Hills 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Lee Scoggins Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Indydan said: Lee has also bragged about knowing people like the Cheskys. He also let us know that the Cheskys are millionnaires... That's not accurate. I mentioned the Cheskys because we were talking about my recording background and my experience at Chesky Records was relevant. The topic also came up in discussions of download and streaming sites. Link to comment
Popular Post crenca Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said: I like people to self-identify they are a problem to the hobby of high performance audio. Saves me a lot of trouble documenting who is a problem. The list generally grows steadily with with a few spikes when people get nervous about various authorities being questioned. I don't disagree with any of this, but I would note that Synergistic, Lee Scoggins, heck even (especially) Absolute Sound and Stereophile - they make a living at "being the problem". For them, being the problem is the solution (for them), and they are quite $successful$ at it. The real problem is not those high up on the confidence game pyramid, but all those below them. I am pessimistic that yet more documentation is what will effect much, though I suppose it won't hurt. Ralf11, Hugo9000, Rt66indierock and 1 other 2 1 1 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, crenca said: I don't disagree with any of this, but I would note that Synergistic, Lee Scoggins, heck even (especially) Absolute Sound and Stereophile - they make a living at "being the problem". For them, being the problem is the solution (for them), and they are quite $successful$ at it. The real problem is not those high up on the confidence game pyramid, but all those below them. I am pessimistic that yet more documentation is what will effect much, though I suppose it won't hurt. What has been going on with MQA is having an impact. "If the feedback and correspondence I receive globally is anything to go on, enthusiasts are victims of misinformation overload and as such their frustration levels are HIGH." David Blumenstein crenca 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Sal1950 Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said: You know this is total bullshit coming from an engineer. If you were the least bit curious, you would buy or borrow some and play around with them and you would indeed find that they do work. Not everything that works is obvious based on simple physics. Some things are simply silly, some ridiculous, the HFT's go beyond that to escape definition. They are like a experiment in "let's see how gullible some in the audiophile community really are, and how big a monkey we can make out of them." Can anyone, anywhere, provide some verifiable, scientific evidence these devices have any audible effects? BLAH mansr and Hugo9000 2 "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
kumakuma Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Hopefully the Nigerian 419 scammers never get their hands on Synergistic Research's customer list... Ralf11 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
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