MQA is Vaporware

[MetalNuts]

It is a nightmare for all those who prefer to have their music in the digital format if MQA works like Cinavia in the video discs.  

[MetalNuts]

42 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don't believe 4k video was something consumers asked for or need. I'm not sure it's actually that good for anyone other than those with giant screens who sit close, and the people selling goods. 

 

Lossless 1080p, which isn't sent into homes via streaming, satellite, or cable, would be better. When people see how good an over the air HD video looks compared to lossy 4k, they may think twice about 4k. The same can be said for great 44.1 versus high resolution and MQA.

 

Despite it is not the right place to talk about 4K video, with respect I myself as one of the consumers  prefers 4K which is so much better.  The break through is like from VCD to DVD.  Once you have watched 4K, it is hard to go back.  The technology in 4K and HDR is not adding a who knows what filters as in MQA.  

 

Having said that, I do agree that  a bigger TV is needed to get the most benefit of 4K video.  However, is MQA so magical that it can be proved that it sounds better in a crap equipment?  If they can really do that, I wonder how the HIFI equipment industry will survive since it is no longer the equipment that makes it sound better but MQA.

[MetalNuts]

19 hours ago, firedog said:

The video comparison witchdoctor makes is a bad analogy for one simple reason: most people see the benefits of hi-res video and screens immediately, (not necessarily 4k) but most don't hear the advantage of hi-res audio because it is subtle - and on highly volume compressed music (most today) and hip hop type music, it doesn't really make a positive difference.

 

The better my system has gotten, the more I've realized that well recorded Redbook sounds fine, and I'm happy with it. Some Redbook recordings sound better than a lot of hi-res ones. I'd still prefer a well done hi-res recording, but it isn't an absolute necessity for me to feel I'm listening to something very good. 

 

Yes, some old recordings like those of RCA are good and 90% of my music collection is from ripping CDs.  If the recording is good, It does not matter that they are converted to 16/44 or 24/88 or 96 provided someone in the process did not mess up with the EQ etc. 

[MetalNuts]

4 hours ago, FredericV said:

Our industry is a difficult one. The younger generation doesn't really care about high quality. They just want instant audio in an acceptable quality. The current gen of audiophiles is almost at it's end. We have maybe 10 to 20y left. Look at CES: this year it was a flop, several years ago it was overcrowded.

 

I have reservation in your opinion that younger generation doesn't really care about high quality.  The younger will become what we are with the passage of time. 

 

Most of the younger generation carry the music with them wherever they go (not like the elders who already have their own house and living room to place the HIFI equipment and like to sit there quietly and comfortably listening music).  In our younger days, we used walkman, discman and we have no place of our own and no money to buy the equipment that we have today.  

 

In my place, despite the youngsters do not yet have their own place to pile up their HIFI equipment,  most of them are using very expensive headphones, earphones which to a certain degree indicated that they demand quality.  When the time comes, they will just like us on the path to audiophile. 

 

So cheer up!

[MetalNuts]

Sorry, I am not the guy who will even accept payment from MQA to have the DRM running in my music files and server, not to mention pay for it.

[MetalNuts]

8 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 Nothing in audio is perfect, there is no Original Sin, and there is no going back to the place of ideal perfection. Ultimately there is no free lunch in digital, and music production is about a constant flow forward … shaping distortions and how they play with frequency balance and transients.  When a record is first tracked, then rough mixed, mixed, revised, mastered, revised in mastering and finally approved … there is no fixing it.  Anything that changes violates 5-20 people who have all signed off.  Distortion artifacts are musically incorporated in to all music production, there is no perfection in music.  That way of thinking is bogus and anti music.  Music is flawed and that’s a good thing, it’s the humanity.   Perfection has no place in music production, it’s a dangerous myth. 

 

 

 

I agree particularly with "Distortion artifacts are musically incorporated in to all music production" and "Music is flawed and that's a good thing, it is the humanity. Perfection has no place in music production"

 

One example of distortion artifacts are musically incorporated in to all music production I can think of electric guitarist will choose a amp with abundant distortion cos' that's the guitar sound in his mind.  To demand perfection in music production, we need perfect people doing perfect jobs all the way.  Even if that is achievable, we need perfect equipment to play it back.  Is there any perfect equipment for all audiophile?

 

 

[MetalNuts]

8 minutes ago, Confused said:

Nudging this thread gently back onto the topic of MQA...... 

 

I picked up a rumour that the reason dCS have delayed their promised firmware update to include MQA decoding in some products is due to a dispute over monies with MQA.  Apparently MQA want dCS to pay them a license fee for every unit sold, (or has been sold?) even if the user does not use MQA.  I am guessing this could be tracked by whether or not a user downloads a particular plug-in or something, I'm not sure.  If dSC are effectively absorbing the licence fee costs, the difference between some and all users could be significant.  To be clear, this is just a rumour that I have picked up third hand, I cannot vouch for it's accuracy.  Does anyone know the facts?  I know Roon's MQA implementation is also delayed, so as pure speculation I do wonder if similar issues are involved.  OK, there could be technical issues, but it is not a giant leap to wonder if there is some dispute over the money.

In a commercial reality, money plays a significant role and it would not surprise me at all if it is about money.  

[MetalNuts]

3 minutes ago, esldude said:

Amen to that.  I too don't want the AVR effect.  Some have so many logos to display they use up the entire box they come in to show them.  

Funny, they are not the logo of sponsors but those licence fee collectors.  It makes you feel the AVR should worth more.  LOL!

[MetalNuts]

On 11/11/2017 at 9:12 PM, Confused said:

Just as a point of note.  Strictly speaking, the BBC is not UK Government funded.  It is funded from the proceeds of a TV Licence, that you are obliged to purchase if you want to use a TV in the UK, irrespective of what you want to watch on it.  It is a subtle point, because the Government has some say over the cost of the licence, and it is the Government's Police force and court system that will prosecute you if you do not pay the licence.  However, the BBC is therefore independent of Government in terms of how it operates and what research it might choose to perform, the Government is not dictating this stuff.  OK, if this seams overly pedantic, yes I know and apologise for that, but it is a subtle difference.  For what it's worth, the BBC is doing some very worthwhile R&D work currently, the recent CD quality FLAC internet radio streaming initiative being one example.  (MQA free hi-res streaming, you might say......)

 

As a former British colonist, I understand that BBC is formed under a Royal Charter and it is different from the Act of the Parliament.  There are a lot of Societies, Institutes or companies formed under a Royal Charter and the followings are some example: The British East India Company, Bank of England, The Law Society, Standard Chartered Bank, The Royal Hong Kong Jockey Club (now The Hong Kong Jockey Club), The Royal Hong Kong Police (now the Hong Kong Police and it has now become part of the government).

 

They are not government bodies and they may or may not operate under funding from the government directly or indirectly.  My best example is the Hong Kong Jockey Club which initially funded partly by the membership fee then later developed to produce a lot of income from the betting services.  The income apart from the betting tax paid to the HK Government, and its costs for the operation, all those remain are reserved for charity purpose.  The Hong Kong Jockey Club can determine on its own how to spend its reserved part on charity and the Hong Kong Government cannot compel it to donate to any charitable organization.

[MetalNuts]

45 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Actually that BACCH 3D stuff (which is what that refers to) does sound interesting from what I've read. Looking forward to hearing a demo one day.

 

Anyway there are other threads about that:

 

 

I cannot afford USD54,000 for the startup microphones and cameras needed to experience Bacch-SP 3D sound.  Sad!

[MetalNuts]

1 minute ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hehe yes but it's a little like how F1 tech sometimes trickles down to affordable production cars some 5-10 years later.

 

Maybe some of that tech will trickle down (or maybe not). But would love to have a listen.

 

I would like to experience how it sounds but it is remote that the price will go down dramatically to be within my budget.

[MetalNuts]

39 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I hate banning people and moderating speech of adults, but it has to be done once in a while. 

 

IMHO, he has been given so many chances.  People here expected that by his profession, he could enlighten us with knowledge how the mastering work but I believe to the disappointment of most people here, they were just treated rudely without any courtesy from him.   I find it most disturbing is his attitude of claiming to know but refused to share those matters people here are curious.  If we were fools here, I don't see the reason why he has been here so long blaming the fools here know nothing.  I am confused who actually is the fool.

 

[MetalNuts]

1 hour ago, Mordikai said:

I try not to over analyze things like this. We have no idea what's going on in his life or if he's always like this. I like to give people a break but he was pushing it. 

 

It is not an excuse not to treat people normally like any civilized person would by reason of what one has experienced in his life unless those people made him suffered and he comes here to pay them back.   If this is an excuse, no wonder there being so many shootings killing innocent people.  I do not think it right to have any sympathy with the shooter, all my sympathy are with the victims and their family.

[MetalNuts]

1 hour ago, Mordikai said:

Dude-  I said " I like to give people a break". I was not making an excuse for him, he can make his own. Second, wtf are you talking about? This is an audio chat room, he was unpleasant, bfd!  How is what I said equivalent to sympathizing with mass shooters? I was trying to say it's a waste of time to psychoanalyze over the internet.

I am sorry if I have mistaken what you meant by what you wrote.

 

I was given to understand that you want to give people a break (that's for sure) and you suggest we have to consider his experience in the past which may justify how he behaves (is it not a proposed excuse or way out for him? then what is it? a defence or justification). 

 

I don't think I should or justify myself go F***** people in a forum because I had a bad experience in the past and people in the forum (may be you are excepted) would tolerate my F******* by my past experience (how would they know I have a bad past experience?). 

 

[MetalNuts]

43 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

Also, you make the assumption that bandwidth is plentiful.  In my discussions with people in the industry such as David Chesky and Ken Forsythe, bandwidth at the scale of streaming is a very real issue. 

 

I do not understand why 4K movie now can be streamed (Netflix) without bandwith issue but music files have.  I believe the data size of 4K movie be it in terms of seconds, minutes, hours must be bigger than 24/192 music data.  Is it the same technique in streaming data?

 

 

[MetalNuts]

2 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

We will see.  The Cheskys have a solid record of innovation in music and some street smarts in business.  HDTracks has been very successful.  I have known them since the early 90s and they are good people.

You don't have to wait and see and I can tell you absolutely that I don't stream and I don't like my music files embedding something that restricts my rights in using the files and compel me how to use it.  No matter how the propaganda MQA tries to brainwash consumers, I am a no brainer and I cannot be brainwashed to believe MQA is doing any good to the sound quality. 

[MetalNuts]

I am surely not as persistent as he is, if I were him I would have given up longtime ago from the response of the members here and I should have realized that I do not have any substantial facts to back up the MQA claim save and except one's personal subjective feeling and the hearsay from those claiming to know MQA better.

[MetalNuts]

6 hours ago, knickerhawk said:

 

Have you seen this in actual advertising use? It doesn't appear on the MQA website, and I haven't come across it elsewhere, but perhaps I've missed it? Given the different typeface and look from the current logo (which doesn't include "Lossless"), my guess is that this particular mark will never see the light of day in actual use. 

 

Strictly speaking, it does not matter whether the "Lossless" word appears on the trademark, which by itself may be a misrepresentation actionable under appropriate law. 

 

I believe MQA should not be allowed to register as trademark.   MQA which in full is "Master Quality Authenticated" which indicated/implied that the products are of a superior/best quality which would make other products (if any) of the same category inferior and by the trademark it is taking unfair advantage over the others.  Further, "Authenticated" implies of approval, verification, confirmation of certain standard by authority.  Which authority?  Unless there was proof provided to satisfied the registrar, it is a misrepresentation and should not be allowed to use. 

 

 

[MetalNuts]

It is good to do some testing to confirm one's belief but IMHO, a testing environment must as far as possible to make everything constant and to control variables. If the volume level of the two source is different, we are allowing variables to creep in to affect the result and that is not satisfactory enough to have a conclusive result. 

[MetalNuts]

 The article quoted: "Stuart mentioned in an e-mail to me that much fewer than 1% of recordings contain musical information above 48kHz—something he knows for a fact, because MQA's encoders collect such information as they do their work."

 

Then what's the purpose of manufacturing equipment that claims to have a frequency response of 1-100k Hz, i.e. Meridian's 857 Reference Power Amplifier or DSP 8000 speaker with frequency performance of up to 32k Hz . 

 

If one believes that the human audio range is 20 - 20k Hz and it is pointless to make equipment outside that range. 

 

This makes me wondering what Bob actually believes and the reason why the whole industry does not confine to making equipment within that range like years ago before the SACD era.

[MetalNuts]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Most DAC chips today offer a choice of filter. How many DAC boxes let the end user choose, let alone offer the full selection available?

 

This is the reason I replaced Esoteric N-01 with dCS Rossini Dac.  There is no choice of filter in N-01 (whereas N-05 has) and the consumers have to believe that only MQA files will activate the MQA filter and non-MQA files will have no filter.  I found it unreasonable that the former model N-05 has a choice of filter whereas the flagship model N-01 does not have the option to choose.

[MetalNuts]

If one prefers chocolate, he can buy equipment and cables to make the chocolate favour stands out, the same with one who prefers vanilla. 

 

Why should one let MQA to pre-favour it chocolate or vanilla with no way of turning back?  Not to mention that lossless files become lossy.

[MetalNuts]

39 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Agreed.

 

My avatar is still better than yours. I took a poll and 50% said yours was a distraction! I concede it could be a guess. I am planning to increase the sample size to 3 next time to get  more conclusive results ?

Thank you and I know now my avatar has fulfilled its purpose successfully. ?

 

[MetalNuts]

34 minutes ago, shtf said:

Forgive my ignorance but I suppose I should ask.  What value is there in even a legitimate established and immutable theory?  It is still just a theory, right?

 

 

I guess theory allows one to prove it right or wrong, if one proposes a theory without any intention to prove it right or wrong, he should use words like "magic" or "voodoo"

[MetalNuts]

45 minutes ago, rickca said:

That word unfolds makes me nervous.  At the moment Qobuz doesn't do MQA.

 

Yes, it sounds like the MQA slogan.

41 minutes ago, mansr said:

I think they're just having a bit of fun with words.

 

I might be wrong since English is not my mother tongue but it does not make sense at all.  To unfold something, that something must be folded, otherwise, there is nothing to be unfolded.  Ordinary high resolution files like wav, flac are folded or I am being fooled?