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MQA is Vaporware


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39 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I'll respectfully disagree with you on this one. Saying a streaming technology is vaporware because one can't purchase and download music using this technology, is a bit strange. MQA is all about streaming. 

 

 

However, this is not the story told at the beginning.

 

Here is John Atkinson quoted, with two totally untrue today fact:

 

As MQA needs to be applied at the mastering stage in a recording's production, it doesn't improve the sound quality of your existing CD collection. It is really only relevant to downloads.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ive-heard-future-streaming-meridians-mqa#iVGw34mUHUGtC4bm.99

 

The story kept on changing, and keeps on changing to this day.

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20 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Look how long Meridian fooled people. I have difficulty understanding why someone would choose to lose one million Pounds a year for 24 years but Meridian did.

You can continue to bleed money until the cows come home if you marry an incredibly wealthy American woman whose family pumps cash into your failing business.

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2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not certain that's the best information to support your point :~) 

I guess my point is that there was a total and utter lack of critical reporting by "influential journalists", as they were called in the MQA marketing plan, and they parroted any and all claims put forth by MQA. There is a lot of egg on a lot of faces. To your credit, I do believe you were not in that camp.

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6 minutes ago, soxr said:


The good thing about MQA is the fact that the competition also starts to think about improving or changing filter design (e.g. minimum phase vs linear phase), ways to improve compression (e.g. blank noise bits in flac so the entropy encoder has less work to do = smaller files), ways to deblur pcm while not licensing anything from Bob.

This whole MQA discussion was interesting as I learned a lot in the process. It made me test ideas that were on my todo list, but faster than what I was planning.

This drives competition which is good. I'm happy we don't need to license MQA decoders but we can process MQA in a different way and we can benefit from the lessons learned and also apply that knowledge to non-MQA files


 

I agree competition is good.

 

Perhaps, though, we can stop referring to any filtering solutions as "MQA" like, and just phase out the term as others come up with improved digital architecture. The sooner we stop using the fabricated marketing acronym, the better.

 

Just a suggestion.

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4 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

"To rewind a tad, all business is about profit. That's the nature of the beast. Nobody goes into business to work for free or give stuff away. However, when business involves collaboration with other commercial entities, it's common sense to expect balanced contracts which are mutually beneficial to all parties concerned. "

 

Sounds like President Trump talking about our foreign trade agreements. Common sense needing to prevail for both sides.  

Two thumbs up.  :D

No, sounds like fraud and collusion, Actually.

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19 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Who is colluding and committing fraud with respect to MQA? if you're talking politics, I understand, but let's keep that out of the MQA discussion.

Yes, sir I am talking both..first..politics..perhaps address the poster above?

 

Second: Yes MQA has fraudulently marketed their product. The only thing true about it is that it does fold down higher sampling rates to a smaller container. Everything else is a marketing lie.


Collusion: with the audio press and currently with mastering engineers being recruited as "reps".

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10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I hear you, but wouldn't stretch it that far. MQA has some wiggle room :~)

 

I hope the press was just clueless rather than colluding, but that doesn't help the end result.

So...would does it seem credible on any level that tenured for decades editors of the only two US remaining audiophile print magazines are clueless? One who markets himself as an electronics engineer, a recording engineer, a musician, and who has measured thousands of components and speakers...clueless?

 

Or buttering the bread. I don't mind at all defending colleagues, and providing counterpoints, all sides need to make their points, but....

 

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2 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

If that is so clear and obvious, where is your lawsuit?  Or, how do you spell c-l-a-s-s a-c-t-i-o-n?

No lawsuit required. This steaming turd will collapse under it's own weight.

 

Bob Stuart has failed at every other endeavor, this will follow suit. Unless his rich in iaws

gives him a few more million pounds.

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4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I hear ya. 

Not to mention, they, and all the other MQA Evangelists in the press have been provided with all the links, info, and discussions about MQA from readers dismayed about their coverage. So pleading clueless is a non starter. :D

 

This is what happens when you claim to serve consumers but are really manufacturer-centric.

 

Maybe I am off the mark, but you seem here to strike a perfect balance. The very fact you have these forums means you understand that consumers must be served. I don't know of any other audiophile publication, virtual, or print, that has this much exchange of information. I thank you.

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45 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Hi DA - Thanks for the kind words.

 

It's no secret that I feed my family from advertising income generated from CA. However, without putting the CA Community and readers / consumers first, there is no advertising income and there is no CA. For the most part ad prices are based on the amount of traffic a site receives. It's in my best interest to serve consumers and hope the income follows. It never turns out well for those who mix up the order of who is most important in this type of business. 

 

I could go on and on about this, but I hope my point is clear. It's just not worth it for me to chase advertising dollars by catering to manufacturers and putting the CA Community second. It also feels gross to think about running a business with those priorities mixed up. 

 

P.S. There are some very cool companies who totally understand this. They realize a stronger independent community is better for them than a site that is in their pocket. I enjoy working with these companies. 

Thank you for confirming what my intuition has told me about how you run the business. Clearly there are many cynics here, me among them, but you just have to believe someone when your instincts tell you they are kosher.  It seems, then you would have a hard time working at TAS or Stereophile because they without question cater to manufacturers at the expense of consumers.

 

BTW, I totally know what you mean by some companies just getting it. I bet I can name some. Sonore perhaps?

 

Cheers.

And many others.

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2 hours ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Well, if this thread's jihad about MQA is only about subjective differences, then it is hard to understand its ferocious intensity.  I know that some, mansr and others, claim there is more objective measurable proof of its failures and even fraud in actually violating technical claims made by MQA.  Fraud is fraud, even in consumer audio.  And, it may be provable by technical measures, though certainly not by subjective ones as you say.

 

If it is all subjective, what is the problem?  Some people like Bose, some don't. Some people like Magico, some don't.  Some like hi rez, others don't.  They listen and they buy what they think sounds best to them.  If people like how MQA sounds, let them have it.  So, why the jihad against what other people may subjectively prefer?

 

And, by the way, have you done any controlled listening comparisons yourself,  preferably blind or double blind?  Since you have already made up your mind about it, sighted listening would be hopelessly biased.

 

Again, I have no plans for MQA in my own system for a host of reasons.  My own listening has not convinced me I should, so far.  But, I am not going to tell others what to do or offer false or speculative innuendo about it.

You clearly can't see a foot in front of your nose, or the ramifications of a fake "format" like MQA.

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2 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

This is great!  I love this.  Oh, yeah, well you can't even see an inch, centimeter, millimeter, ad infinitum in front of your own nose.  Great insults, right?  So, let's go round and round like sensible adults, right?  But, glad to see you have got this thing all figured out in your mind, including any confidential MQA business plans, which you have not disclosed to the rest or us, or at least you think you do.  

If you are not delusional, then you are a shill.

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2 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

The potential problem with this line of thinking isn’t that it relies on the music companies’ greed, which is perpetual.  It is that it would hand over a fair amount of control to MQA.  The companies were down this road once before with Apple and have everlastingly regretted it (despite the fact Apple saved them, which they choose to ignore in their memory of those events).  For that reason, I have some doubt the industry will go “full MQA” without big consumer demand, and perhaps not then.

Apple "saved" the music industry?? I don't know a single person, myself included who spend a nickel to buy Apple's lossy crap. The fact that they still don't offer lossless downloads boggles the mind, and that audio is at the very bottom of their list.

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1 minute ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Yes, thank you.  I have understood this hypothetical scenario for quite some time.  I do note that there are a number of "if ... then"s and "may"s in it, as is appropriate, since there is no hard evidence that is the game plan.  And, we could go on forever with alternative scenarios that might lead to other conclusions.  

 

I think there are many holes in the logic of this case you have presented, but many of the themes throughout this thread seem to have a common speculative, conspiracy to monopolize by fiat theme.  Namely, that a little company, probably not yet a profitable one, in conjunction with big media publishers, streamers, downloaders, etc. can simply impose their will on us - all of us - with the insidious knowledge that this product is actually inferior soundIng.  But, they like it because it does offer the possibility of a sneaky DRM, which would only be sprung on us unsuspecting idiots at a later date.  And, of course, I am not even beginning to discuss government laws and regulations to prevent precisely the sort of conspiratorial monopoly being suggested here.  

 

Meanwhile, we as consumers would not protest.  We would just blindly, like sheep, continue to buy this stuff as if our life depended on it, making the fat cats at the top of the chain, including MQA, ever richer and richer.  Meanwhile, no other suppliers would dare start an alternative, competitive venture offering a different or a traditional non-MQA format or technology, even though that would allegedly sound much better to consumers and be highly preferred.  After all, consumers  (except us real smart ones here in this thread, of course) are all so easily brainwashed.  So, MQA would prevail no matter what, and quite easily. It is a no-brainer, as we used to say.

 

Look, I have had a long business and technology career.  I have degrees in Economics and Business Administration from a top tier US school.  I have studied market dynamics and structure, including consumer markets involving technological products.  I think the theories here just do not understand how capitalism and markets work, what is feasible and what is not.  Theories here are generally wild, whipped up hysteria based on irrational fears involving a new technology that is a threat to the status quo.  Fears, including quite irrational ones, are commonplace with new technology.  I have a world of experience dealing with precisely that.

"Theories here are generally wild, whipped up hysteria based on irrational fears involving a new technology that is a threat to the status quo.  Fears, including quite irrational ones, are commonplace with new technology."

 

Nothing of the sort happening here. What so ever.


This is nothing but proprietary DSP being marketed as a "format". There is no threat. Refer to the title of this thread.

 

It is air, a desperate last gasp by a dying company, run by a failed businessman who has bled out near 25 million pounds (nearly 40 million dollars) in Meridian's ridiculous history.

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11 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Nope, sorry to disappoint.  I just don't like bullies like you who throw around accusations that have no basis.  Do you want to call me some more names?  Fine, bring 'em on if that is the best you can do.

No name calling I am stating for a fact what you are. Your view of the situation is so of kilter, so either you are creating your own reality, or you have a vested interest. Period. Time to move on.

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2 hours ago, fung0 said:

 

So... your argument is... we shouldn't worry until after it's already happened? Even though there are many good reasons to fear the worst. (These have been explained ad nauseam in this thread; it should not be necessary to repeat them.)

 

 

First you dismiss this "little company," then in the next breath acknowledge that it's working with "big media publishers, streamers, downloaders, etc." I think that group (essentially the entire audio industry) certainly does have the ability to "simply impose their will on us - all of us." And to re-write government regulations, if need be.

 

I suppose you're trying to be ironic in your mention of "sneaky DRM," but this is not a trivial concern, nor one without historical precedent. We know that big media publishers love DRM, and it is not at all unreasonable to fear that they'd take any opportunity to "sneak" it into the ecosystem.

 

 

Obviously, we are protesting. Are you speaking for or against our freedom to do that? Or are you simply reiterating that it's only okay to protest once the battle is over?

 

 

The size and profitability of today's advertising and marketing industries is solid proof that consumers are indeed "easily brainwashed" - especially when those who have any understanding of esoteric technological and market factors keep silent. As you seem to feel we should do.

 

 

You clearly have a wonderful understanding of how classic capitalism is supposed to work. But you have apparently failed to notice that almost none of that theory applies any more, in zero-sum markets that no longer have any room for expansion, and which are dominated by at most a handful of companies, all of which have a strong vested interest in collaborating as opposed to competing. (They openly speak of 'co-opetition,' when they're in a jocular mood.)

 

It's simply inconceivable that any upstart competitor could create a viable alternative to, say, the audio CD. And this is exactly what's so worrying about MQA: it seems to be making headway that can only be accounted for by strong support from the music industry. MQA is a format that's tailor-made to please the music industry, unnecessary (at best!) from the point of view of both audiophiles and average consumers. But if the big music publishers unanimously decide that all CDs shall be MQA-encoded, there's no market force that could stop them.

 

Under today's distorted form of capitalism, it makes perfect sense to argue early and loudly against use of technology in such a clearly anti-consumer way. If we don't speak up, right now, then who will... and when?

I admire you for trying. But I found logic and facts are not really working with the MQA Zombies.

 

Hmm...sounds familiar.

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