MQA is Vaporware

[witchdoctor]

If you shoot for the moon you might at least hit the top of the telephone pole. Why rain on the parade?

[witchdoctor]

This is an ambitious project and if they can send MQA streams via Tidal and all I need is a $300 meridian explorer dac I'm game. Not a very big risk IMO. I am all for anyone that is trying to improve digital.

[witchdoctor]

I think Tidal is going to charge you something extra to stream MQA. I was told by MQA representatives at RMAF 2016 that it would cost $40 a month.

 

That seems fair if it provides the goods

[witchdoctor]

I am not a fan of "hirez" 96/24 files or DSD. To me what goes into the mike on the recording end is much more important than the sampling rate. My personal preference is music recorded at a live event even if it is in MP3 format.

 

The next thing is listening in immersive audio that has been upmixed with my Marantz processor to 10.1 channels sounds closer to a live event than anything in just 2 channel stereo.

[witchdoctor]

MQA is Da Bomb! I just listened to Empire State of Mind in MQA through the Tidal desktop app (software decoding) and the initial bass lines that open the song damn near reached out of my desktop speakers and slapped me!

 

Whoever says this is vaporware needs to check this out.

[witchdoctor]

maybe the thread title should be: I Wish MQA was Vaporware

 

Now I'm listening to The Nordic Sound by 2L and it sounds damn good.

[witchdoctor]

MQA was launched on December 2014. It is now January 2, 2017 so let’s see where MQA is at today.

 

Remember all the people who said that MQA was not Digital Rights Management? Well Utimaco disagrees. “MQA turned to Utimaco, a leading manufacturer of hardware-based security solutions that provide the root of trust to keep cryptographic keys safe, secure critical digital infrastructures and protect high value data assets. “ “Critical to the continued success and monetization of the streaming and download services of the entertainment industry, is the ability to secure and safeguard end-to-end transmission of intellectual property. A market leader in hardened encryption, Utimaco is at the forefront of enabling the authenticated delivery needed to drive next-generation entertainment consumption.”

 

Now turn to content. As of today there is no music in the genres 80% of American buy, Rock, R&B/Hip Hop, Pop and Country. Add Latin and EDM and you are at about 9 out of ten people buying music in America have no MQA encoded music to purchase. Don’t wait for licensee Warner Music Group to suddenly turn a switch and their music become available because they told the SEC in their latest financial statements they haven’t figured out how to distribute digital music.

 

There are 10 companies that produce equipment with MQA decoders. None of the products have enough units in the hands of consumers to make any impact. Many companies announced they would not support the format. The view of companies neither producing products nor announcing they would not support the format is indifference. Hardly a must have feature.

 

I said earlier this year that I would need 200 artists producing new music in the genres I regularly buy for MQA to be viable a viable format for me. I don’t see any interest by those artists in recording high resolution much less with MQA encoding. Those genres are rock, alt rock, alt country and bluegrass. And personally I will not test any MQA equipment until eight of the nine albums I use as my reference are available in MQA.

 

The Doors “Riders on the Storm “was used as demo of MQA not realizing there was no master to authenticate. Something that was well known but apparently unknown to the MQA people and audio journalists.

 

As of January 2, 2017 two years after its splashy launch we have a lot of audiophile press about MQA, announcements and demonstrations. But there is a limited supply of equipment to decode MQA files and no music encoded for nine out ten American music buyers, classic vaporware.

 

Rt66indierock, don't ever try the stock market, your timing is BAD. It's like your post caused it to rain MQA streams **FREE** from Tidal and I didn't have to buy nuthin, not even a DAC.

[witchdoctor]

Witch,

 

Vaporware for me is less than 10,000 albums. I nice round number I've used for several decades. Then we get to commercial viability.

 

I think my timing was good. MQA didn't have 10,000 albums as of January 2, 2017 and they still don't. When they do MQA won't be vaporware.

 

WOW, vapor=10,000? OK

[witchdoctor]

Will you be publishing something to show if the MQA thing is good or not?

 

Yes, here is my review-

 

MQA is 100% worth every single cent I paid for it and then some, bargain of the cemtury

[witchdoctor]

MQA with Tidal desktop top app software decoding is the Shiny Object of the Week. Of those 190 or so MQA albums on Tidal, perhaps 50% are recorded/produced in a way that could be considered "audiophile" quality. But no one would pay $20 more per month for what's currently there (maybe you would?). And some of those titles are quite harsh by any standard. I lasted about 5 seconds on that Fitz and the Tantrums album. No amount of MQA magic can rescue that amount of peak limiting.

 

190 albums is at best an introduction to the format. Yes, I like the sound of some of the titles. But the lack of a price increase for this introductory MQA rollout does not justify this level of sycophancy IMHO.

 

Different strokes I guess, check out Private Dancer in MQA or The Doors and see what you think

[witchdoctor]

Whoever thinks desktop speakers are a reliable way to judge sound quality is delusional.

 

JBL rules, more than half of what you listen to was mastered on JBL speakers and these Studio 230's use trickle down tech from their best studio monitors the M2. Wait until this week-end when I can audition it in Auro 3D in the big rig

 

 

[witchdoctor]

A proper listening test for MQA would A/B a single track where the track is the same source for both versions (same master, same original sample rate). Make sure it is a track which demonstrates lots of low level details (hall ambience will be especially effective, also soundstage depth) as these are what will be lost in the artifacts created in MQA. Also, listen really closely for differences in timbre, especially on bowed strings and brass instruments. Do a level test first as well with an SPL meter, any sound pressure differences will invalidate any results.

 

I am well aware of the historic significance of JBL loudspeakers, indeed, many of my musician friends still own the JBL 3-way studio monitors and I have heard them quite often. A near filed listening environment is unsuitable for testing things like ambience retrieval and soundstage depth. I have also heard JBLs, high end horn speakers, while they do offer excellent dynamics, they are very weak in portraying instrumental timbre accurately. You are aware that the company which makes JBLs (Harmon Group) also makes a line of higher performance speakers under the Revel name, right?

 

Yeah I know about revel but everytime I play my JBL's I can't seem to want to change anything, just happy with what I am hearing. If I do upgrade it will be the new JBL 4312E just announced at CES.

[witchdoctor]

First thank you Chris for allowing this debate it had to be hard on you. For the record a process or format needs to be .25% of the population to be real enough to not be considered vaporware.

 

Vincent1234 some of your comments frighten me. Since they are not related to my original post I will address them in a separate thread. But your comments on MQA were helpful to the debate.

 

I wanted the debate about MQA to focus on the amount of music available and providence of the source used to create the MQA file. Special thanks to those who have added their knowledge.

 

Jason Victor Serinus at Stereophile on January 6, 2017 in his CES coverage dutifully reported that there are 15,000 albums available in hi-resolution and the potential market for premium music service is 12 million people. I believe both numbers and the reports that paid streaming services reached 100 million subscribers at the end of 2016. I don’t think it was intended to show 7 out of 8 paying subscribers don’t care about premium streaming services.

 

I am wondering three things. How many people will pay to stream those 15,000 hi-res albums currently available? How much of the catalog will have to be hi-res to interest those 12 million potential customers? And will MQA get a significant piece of this market?

 

That is the wrong question. The right question is with napster also bringing hirez streaming to the masses this summer will redbook go the way of the 8 track tape or the cathode tube TV?

[witchdoctor]

I see a lot of posts about bitrates. Remember the old saying, garbage in garbage out. The algorithm used to convert analog to digital bits is 40 years old. Putting lipstick on a pig by increasing bit rates does not change that its a pig. There is a device called aftermasterpro that claims to change the algorithm used by "remastering" the signal and then sending it to your device:

 

A/B some tracks and decide for yourself:

 

Listen | AfterMaster | Audio Labs

[witchdoctor]

To answer your question about CDs going away the simple answer is no. There are 6.2 million CDs for sale on Amazon today. Indie (see username) bands sell CDs directly to their fans at shows. Too important of a revenue stream to go away without a replacement format. Mainstream music lovers are still buying enough CDs that Target and Walmart have power with record companies to dictate pricing. You have to move a lot units to have this power.

 

Since I can, I'm going to stop by the operations headquarters of Aftermaster and see what they are up to. And ask if they have solved their shipping problems. I'm dropping off two of my golf clubs about four blocks away to have some repairs done. But I must say the chip they using is not going to do what you say it will. I looked at the specifications.

 

That's great news! I don't know that they published all of the data regarding that chip but the more you find out the better. With a price of less than $200 that's less than some HDMI cables. I plan to order the device soon and look forward to hearing about your upcoming visit.

[witchdoctor]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/business/media/music-sales-remain-steady-but-lucrative-cd-sales-decline.html

 

 

2015 figures (I think 2016 figures should be in by around March of this year), $US:

 

 

Music industry total: Just over $7 billion.

 

Streaming (services including Tidal, free streaming [including ad-supported], Internet radio): $2.4 billion

 

Digital downloads: Just under $2.4 billion

 

CDs: $1.5 billion

 

Vinyl: $416 million

 

YouTube and similar sites: $385 million

 

That is a definite eye opener about CD sales. Can you imagine if they get surpassed by vinyl sales in the future

[witchdoctor]

Not really the same issue. There's not an equivalent constituency for "high fidelity video".

 

I'm still liking the theory that the original concept for the Pono Player was the original MQA rollout plan. There's even a legacy blue light on the top of the Pono. Hopefully, some time in the future, someone will spill the beans about what went south between Neil Young and Meridian.

 

If you like the theory Neil Young is looking for investors

[witchdoctor]

It directly addresses their credibility.

 

Start a new thread

[witchdoctor]

Pure unadulterated pro-MQA propaganda. Bravo sir, you've earned your pay for the week!

 

 

He is posting an opinion about MQA in an MQA thread, why are you annoyed?

[witchdoctor]

Why would I need it to provide a test rig to evaluate your caveman ears.

 

If you don't need a degree in analog circuit design to listen to something for a difference, I don't need one remove your sighted bias from your evaluation technique.

 

The physics at play are going to be there regardless.

 

I have the requisite knowledge to control for your sighted bias.

 

Blah, blah, blah, just start a new thread already... booooring

[witchdoctor]

You are here at the behest of MQA to attempt to quell unrest and tamp down valid concerns about what MQA means to the future of music for consumers. You are literally doing your day job here.

 

So what? who are you, the thread moderator?

[witchdoctor]

Good to hear we have some common ground.

 

I personally feel the record labels have got themselves into a complete mess, and it isn't the fault of audiophiles of whatever viewpoint. A telling quote from the recent CES was a record company executive, somebody like the head of Atlantic records, saying that the recording industry is the only industry that has spent the last 30 years lowering the quality of its product. They said that 16/44.1 music was perfect, and implied that any digital recording at any resolution was also 'perfect'. Then they spent huge sums of money suing people who had only copied crap MP3 files from music sharing sites, as though they were something incredibly valuable, when actually they sounded shit and were only useful to a consumer to give and indication of what music they liked and might want to buy in higher resolution. So why not just give MP3 files away, in order to sell the high quality stuff? Of course they never bothered to provide hi-res until quite recently because they don't even appear to understand that a high quality music recording product is ruined if you compress it to death.

 

I am not defending the record companies but don't think they are 100% responsible for the complete mess. record sales will never come back to pre MP3 levels. Thriller will never be topped in temrs of sales. Illegal downloads did as much damage to the industry as the execs did to themselves. They are now playing the cards they were dealt in the best way possible to make a profit.

[witchdoctor]

For me unfortunately that would mean software decoding only for now. Just checking: you also only used software to decode?Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Wht not? 96/24 sounds great to me vs buying anew dac.

[witchdoctor]

For all you posters that got nothing better to do but whine you need to do three things ASAP:

 

Stand up

Put this on in MQA

Set volume to 11

 

#NowPlaying "Let The Good Times Roll" by Ray Charles in @TIDALHiFi tidal.com/track/68711790

[witchdoctor]

Great track. There's a ton of great music up and streaming in Hi-Res!

 

I was reading the liner note, Ray borrowed horn players from Count Basie and Duke Ellington orchestras and it was arranged by Quincy jones, the entire album is sooo good in MQA. Those horns just leap out of the speakers.[TABLE=class: info-box__table info-box__table--block, width: 949]

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[TD]Some players from Ray Charles' big band are joined by many ringers from the Count Basie and Duke Ellington bands for the first half of this program, featuring Charles belting out six songs arranged by Quincy Jones. "Let the Good Times Roll" and "Deed I Do" are highlights, and there are solos by tenorman David "Fathead" Newman, trumpeter Marcus Belgrave, and (on "Two Years of Torture") tenor Paul Gonsalves. The remaining six numbers are ballads, with Charles backed by a string orchestra arranged by Ralph Burns (including "Come Rain or Come Shine" and "Don't Let the Sun Catch You Cryin'"). Charles' voice is heard throughout in peak form, giving soul to even the veteran standards. ~ Scott Yanow[/TD]

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