A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, romaz said:

 

You could ask him to do what he did for me with my DR.  Even though my DR is a single rail supply, it has 2 outputs.  It has a DR 12V output that can be adjusted down to 2V very easily with the turn of a small knob on a potentiometer within the SR7.   He also installed for me a 2nd output that outputs 19V but if I choose to use this 2nd output, I lose the benefits of double regulation because at 19V, I am now running only off the 1st stage regulator.  

 

You think this can be done with a 2 rail supply?  I still want to power my endpoint and server simultaneously from a single LPSU.

 

I'll pass this along to him and find out. Thanks!

[limniscate]

11 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

You could ask him to do what he did for me with my DR.  Even though my DR is a single rail supply, it has 2 outputs.  It has a DR 12V output that can be adjusted down to 2V very easily with the turn of a small knob on a potentiometer within the SR7.   He also installed for me a 2nd output that outputs 19V but if I choose to use this 2nd output, I lose the benefits of double regulation because at 19V, I am now running only off the 1st stage regulator.  

I'm wondering if I should do this as well.  So if you run 19V on one of the rails, you just lose the double regulation but don't lose the fact that you can use two rails?

[romaz]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

Speaking of which, that is the other intriguing question. Will Lee take the "best he's ever seen" Mutec data and go create a competing master reference clock in a price range we mere mortals can afford?  

 

1

 

Lee was impressed enough by the REF10 that Mutec has agreed to send him one in exchange for an sMS-200ultra and a tX-USBultra.  Sounds like a good trade to me.  Yes, he hopes to develop his own master clock at a lower price point and so we'll see what he comes up with.  

 

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

I don't believe we ever really heard how your experiments with the second sCLK-EX board went. Or maybe I missed it. Is the first set of 4 for the switch/sMS/tX, and the next set of 4 upstream in your server? What was the relative effect of the second sCLK-EX?

4

 

After a lot of back and forth, I finally decided on my component list and SOtM now has everything.  I hope to receive everything back from them in due time and I am hoping the REF10 will arrive around the same time.  I will not be active on CA much between now and then but I will report back my findings when I can find the time.

[romaz]

8 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

You think this can be done with a 2 rail supply?  I still want to power my endpoint and server simultaneously from a single LPSU.

 

I'll pass this along to him and find out. Thanks!

 

Yes, the SR7MR4 chassis has the option for 4 outputs.  With a 2-rail supply, you would only be using 2 of those 4 outputs.

[romaz]

3 minutes ago, limniscate said:

I'm wondering if I should do this as well.  So if you run 19V on one of the rail, you just lose the double regulation but don't lose the fact that you can use two rails?

 

Yes, that's right.  I'm not sure this is a feature that he ever intended to offer but when I was contemplating a way to power my HDPlex DC-ATX converter, which requires 16-24V, he kindly offered me this option to help me out.  What I will say is that once you hear how much better DR sounds over SR, you won't want to give it up.

[rickca]

I think perhaps SOtM should offer a device that just contains one or two sCLK-EX boards.  Today, if my sCLK-EX board is in, say, a tX-USBultra with clock points from that board transplanted into a switch and an sMS-200Ultra, I need to keep the component hosting the sCLK-EX (the tX-USBultra) around forever as I reconfigure in the future.

 

By having the sCLK-EX board in a dedicated component, I can introduce new devices to the configuration and maybe move the clock point from a superceded component to its replacement.  The dedicated component hosting the sCLK-EX board always remains in the configuration.

 

Does this make sense to those of you who are currently deploying SOtM ultra devices? 

 

If you want to replace clocks inside a PC with sCLK-EX clock points, where is the board supposed to go?  I would need a 2nd board in this scenario because I've used all 4 clocks between the sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBulta and switch.

 

Clearly my proposed device will add to the cost, but it makes future growth and reconfiguration more flexible.

[romaz]

29 minutes ago, rickca said:

I think perhaps SOtM should offer a device that just contains one or two sCLK-EX boards.  Today, if my sCLK-EX board is in, say, a tX-USBultra with clock points from that board transplanted into a switch and an sMS-200Ultra, I need to keep the component hosting the sCLK-EX (the tX-USBultra) around forever as I reconfigure in the future.

 

I would suggest you consider the following scenario instead. Figure out which Ultra product you are interested in the most, a device that you would be connecting directly to your DAC, such as the sMS-200ultra or tX-USBultra, and place the sCLK-EX board in the chassis of that device. As the endpoint closest to your DAC, this unit should be considered your most important device. The benefits of having the clock board in the chassis of your most important device is you can get away with very short clock cable lengths, around 5-10cm.  SOtM insists this will make a difference.  As your most important component, this device also deserves your best PSU. If you do this, then your best PSU ends up powering both this clock board and your most important endpoint. I can't stress enough how this clock board scales to the quality of the PSU that is attached to it and unless you have numerous high quality PSU rails just sitting around begging to be used, both fiscally and sonically, it would make sense to do it this way.

 

In the future, should you decide you want to clock a different device, don't worry, you won't be stuck. You can send your unit back to SOtM and for time and material, they will explant your clock board and transplant it into your next device of choice. I know because they are doing this for me now. You would need to do this anyway because whatever other device you may wish to clock down the road will likely require a different clock frequency and only SOtM can reconfigure the clock board for you.

 

Should you decide you want to remove your reclocking switch from your chain, as an example, and instead clock a USB card, router or other device, you would need to send all involved items to SOtM. This is another reason it's a good idea to go with SOtM's suggested SMB connectors. That way, you can untether at will any other devices that may be latched to the clock board that don't have to go back. This modularity is very important if you wish to utilize all 4 clocks on the board.

 

Should you elect to disassociate a certain device from the sCLK-EX, you can disconnect the cable but as stated by Rajiv, that device will likely no longer be functional, however, if you send this device back to SOtM, in most cases, they can revert it back to its original condition.

 

Regarding the SMB cables that have caused some confusion, SOtM prefers to go with these cables with their mods for a variety of reasons and while they only supply 1M long cables, that doesn't mean you have to use a 1M long cable. It is definitely in your best interest to use as short a cable as possible and any 50-ohm RG316 clock cable will do provided the cable is terminated with SMB connectors on both ends. Like all cables, they come in different lengths,  grades and price ranges but if you use a really short cable, you can probably get by with a fairly inexpensive cable. Here is a website that sells clock cables that you can use. You'll see that you can buy clock cables as short as 6" and as long as 5 meters. The short cables only cost about $20.

 

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/cable-assemblies/coaxial-cables-rf/456?k=smb to smb

 

 

[limniscate]

Are the SOtM products more sensitive to PSU quality than the Sonore Microrendu? 

[romaz]

3 minutes ago, limniscate said:

Are the SOtM products more sensitive to PSU quality than the Sonore Microrendu? 

 

I can't say for sure but I have found that low impedance devices really respond to low impedance PSUs. Any of my Ultra devices, for example, scale more noticeably to my SR7 than my server.

[austinpop]

@romaz

 

Did you receive your ISO-Regen yet?

[romaz]

2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

@romaz

 

Did you receive your ISO-Regen yet?

 

No,  another CA member was going to lend me his. His unit finally arrived last week but it was DOA and so he is waiting for a replacement.

[austinpop]

39 minutes ago, romaz said:

As your most important component, this device also deserves your best PSU. If you do this, then your best PSU ends up powering both this clock board and your most important endpoint. I can't stress enough how this clock board scales to the quality of the PSU that is attached to it and unless you have numerous high quality PSU rails just sitting around begging to be used, both fiscally and sonically, it would make sense to do it this way.

 

I'm currently using 3 x LPS-1s to power each of my trifecta, but eventually, I want to see what @limniscate's SR7 sounds like powering the tX-USBultra and the the sMS-200 (modded). I suspect I'll end up wanting to order one, but I want to hear it first.

[seeteeyou]

On 6/16/2017 at 4:53 AM, RickyV said:

Hi all,

I have been mailing with May from Sotm. She said that it is possible to replace a crystek 575 clock with one of the sCLK-ex tabs given the correct voltage and frequency. 

Thats all the info they need for all xo's you want to replace, frequency and voltage.

 

Just wondering if something similar were applicable if we're talking about DAC such as Chord Hugo 2 and Chord Mojo?

 

XTAL1 and XTAL2 don't look like such a challenge to replace IMHO

 

 

Both of them could be charged via USB so 5V DC from LPS-1 should be OK?

 

 

BTW, I looked at the list of toys available with 10 MHz master clock inputs but none of them seemed to be all that interesting to me

• ESOTERIC G-0、G-0s、G-0Rb、G-02、G-03X、G-25U、K-01、K-01X、K-03、K-03X、K-05、K-05X、K-07、K-07X、D1、D-02、D-02X、D-07X、P1、P-02、P-02X、N-05
• TASCAM CG1000
• dcs dcs992II、Vivaldi
• Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX HD、OCX-V、OCX、TRINITY
• BRAINSTORM DCD-8
• Phasetech HD-7A
• Phasemation HD-7A192
• SFORZATO DST-01、DSP-03、DSP-05
• TEAC UD-503、NT-503
• SPEC RMP-X1
• Sound Warrior SWD-CL10
• TechDAS D-7、D7i
• RATOC RAL-DSDHA2
• M2TECH EVO DAC TWO PLUS、HIFACE EVO TWO
• CH Precision C1
• Aurender W20

In other words, it should make more sense to void the warranty of a decent yet fairly inexpensive DAC (stuff from Chord should be good enough?) by replacing the clocks with sCLK-EX and then add the master clock later on.

 

Since it's best to save an excellent clock for the one that's closest to the DAC itself, how about we just do that inside the DAC by modifying it?

 

Not sure if anyone were having serious balls to mod Chord DAVE as well as DAVINA in the future?

[lmitche]

I've always wondered if the low cost and surplus rubidium 10mhz clocks sold on eBay are useful for audio.  There are some good web sites like timenuts where enthusiasts share ideas and experience, but I find zero audiophile experience there.

[seeteeyou]

An audiophile here in Hong Kong (ThomasLi) added GPSDO to his dCS Vivaldi full stack and that turned out to be effective upgrade

 

http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=82136
http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=84115

 

GPSDO should cost roughly 120 bucks in China, as usual there's a catch since both quality power and clock cables are mission critical. In other words, GPSDO itself should be relatively cheap but we must know how to feed that properly

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=38893473067
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=42336500072
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=43019130458
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=528444781495
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=540879583214
https://www.amazon.com/DISCiPLINED-CLOCK-GPSDO-OUTPUT-SQUARE/dp/B01B2HZP90
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-DISCiPLINED-CLOCK-GPSDO-10M-OUTPUT-SQUARE-WAVE-power-supply-Antenna-/111514491254
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-Receiver-GPSDO-10MHz-1PPS-GPS-Disciplined-Clock-with-Antenna-Power-Supply-/251802969291
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-DISCiPLINED-CLOCK-GPSDO-10MHz-10M-OUTPUT-SQUARE-WAVE-RS232-OUTPUT-GPS-NMEA-/281649576001
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-DISCiPLINED-CLOCK-GPSDO-10MHz-10M-OUTPUT-SQUARE-WAVE-RS232-OUTPUT-GPS-NMEA-/131663521573

 

Like what I mentioned before, DAC options available with 10 MHz master clock inputs are either too cheap (overkill to add an expensive Mutec REF 10) or costing a bit too much. We don't wanna feed such a nice master clock to the source while it's being held back by the relatively inferior clocks inside the DAC itself.

 

In other words, we better find the right DAC to modify and replace the clocks inside that IMHO.

[rickca]

7 hours ago, romaz said:

In the future, should you decide you want to clock a different device, don't worry, you won't be stuck. 

Thanks for your answer @romaz.  I was trying to figure out a way to avoid rehosting the sCLK-EX board, but your points are compelling.  I'd feel a lot more comfortable about all this if SOtM was planning to provide service in the USA in the future.

 

Where are you putting the sCLK-EX board with the clocks for your PC components?

[rickca]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

I've always wondered if the low cost and surplus rubidium 10mhz clocks sold on eBay are useful for audio.  There are some good web sites like timenuts where enthusiasts share ideas and experience, but I find zero audiophile experience there.

This is what I found ...

Most rubidium clocks, are designed for long-term stability, which is really not very important to digital audio. The short term stability -- jitter and close-in phase noise is what matters in audio.

[rickca]

8 hours ago, limniscate said:

Are the SOtM products more sensitive to PSU quality than the Sonore Microrendu? 

From John Swenson's description of the ultraRendu changes, it seems like the ultraRendu will benefit from a high quality PSU even more than the microRendu.  Perhaps @JohnSwenson could confirm?

[rickca]

7 hours ago, romaz said:

 

No,  another CA member was going to lend me his. His unit finally arrived last week but it was DOA and so he is waiting for a replacement.

A direct comparison of ISO REGEN vs tX-USBultra is still a key thing for me.  

[beautiful music]

10 minutes ago, rickca said:

A direct comparison of ISO REGEN vs tX-USBultra is still a key thing for me.  

+1?

[darkless]

43 minutes ago, rickca said:

A direct comparison of ISO REGEN vs tX-USBultra is still a key thing for me.  

I'm also interested in this comparison. 

[beautiful music]

On 5/28/2017 at 5:57 PM, mozes said:

Hi Greenleo

My system is IR>tXultra>Dac

and my listening impressions are based on this configuration.

 

The one who had the IR and tX-USBUltra is @mozes and in fact @greenleo and I asked him to make this comparison and some sort of them tXUltra>IR>DAC but it seems he hasn't a time to make these test at that time.

 

Hopefully he can do this at the moment 

[rickca]

24 minutes ago, sadekkhalifa said:

Hopefully he can do this at the moment

Moussa has been traveling this week.  He also reported that he shorted his Vinnie Rossi mini.  We probably need to give him a break. 

[amir57bs]

17 hours ago, romaz said:

 

My new DR SR7 has arrived and the difference against my single regulated SR7 is easily noticeable and very worthwhile.  Improved dynamic contrasts and an even smoother, more relaxed and effortless presentation.  I wasn't sure how my SR7 could get better and now I know.  This is a highly recommended upgrade and I have now decided to replace my standard SR7MR2XL with the DR version.

 

Here is what Paul Hynes had to say:

 

"The DR version effectively expands the dynamic range of clean power delivery by reducing output voltage sag with larger load transient current delivery and reducing the overall noise level of the output voltage rail over the range of load current change. There are other benefits but I would prefer you to have the experience of these before I say anything further, as I do not want to affect your conclusions in any way."

 

I am going to order one but i told paul to design a better chassis like streacom FC9. my problem is bad looking chassis of SR7

[tboooe]

I sure wish Paul Hynes would update his website to provide more information.  I am sure he is getting flooded with inquiries.  Is there a better source for information other than his website?