A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Elberoth]

47 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc01.html

 

Several versions available. 

 

 

Thanks for the link. I have ordered 0.2m and 1m cables.

[Elberoth]

Anyone tried getting rid of the regulator board from the sMS-200 ?

 

I just got this tip from another forum member:

 

If you want to get the most out of your SMS then open up the box remove the external regulator board and inject 5v straight onto the main board. Lord knows how sotm managed to produce such an awful reg board but if you use the sonore battery psu or Paul Hynes reg straight into main board the results are superb.

 

I'm gonna try this on my return from Munich High End show. I have just opened the sMS-200 up and it seems like a very easy mod to perform. 

 

The original regulator board uses a DC/DC converter (probably to accomodate a vide range of input voltages) and those tend to be very noisy. It makes zero sense to pass the power via this regulator, if you can set the LPS-1 to 5V and power the device directly.

 

[AmusedToD]

6 minutes ago, Elberoth said:

Anyone tried getting rid of the regulator board from the sMS-200 ?

 

I just got this tip from another forum member:

 

If you want to get the most out of your SMS then open up the box remove the external regulator board and inject 5v straight onto the main board. Lord knows how sotm managed to produce such an awful reg board but if you use the sonore battery psu or Paul Hynes reg straight into main board the results are superb.

 

I'm gonna try this on my return from Munich High End show. I have just opened the sMS-200 up and it seems like a very easy mod to perform. 

 

The original regulator board uses a DC/DC converter (probably to accomodate a vide range of input voltages) and those tend to be very noisy. It makes zero sense to pass the power via this regulator, if you can set the LPS-1 to 5V and power the device directly.

 

I suppose this is impossible to do if the PSU is 12v, right? 

[Elberoth]

4 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

I suppose this is impossible to do if the PSU is 12v, right? 

 

You would need to add a separate voltage regulator that would drop the voltage to 5V as this is what the main board needs. But with such a big voltage drop the heat (from the regulator) would become an issue.

[AmusedToD]

4 minutes ago, Elberoth said:

 

You would need to add a separate voltage regulator that would drop the voltage to 5V as this is what the main board needs. But with such a big voltage drop the heat (from the regulator) would become an issue.

 

Ok, apparently a 5V PSU is the safe bet then.

 

If there is a tx-USBultra right after the SMS-200, do you think this mod is worth the effort as the signal would be regenerated by the superior clocks in the tx-USBultra?

 

Looking forward to your report.

[lmitche]

7 hours ago, romaz said:

The sCLK-EX board is a single board that has 4 independent clock outputs.  Because they are independent, they can be specified to be whatever frequency you want.  I don't know this for a fact but my guess is that they each get their timing from a single master internal clock.  

Could someone with a relationship please ask SOTM if the clocks are synchronized in some way?  My guess is they can't be as each clock can run at different multiples. Nevertheless synchronization in this way would explain the SQ quality benefits observed here. Otherwise, in theory, upgrading independent clocks in each device should be able to deliver the same benefits.

[Elberoth]

30 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Ok, apparently a 5V PSU is the safe bet then.

 

If there is a tx-USBultra right after the SMS-200, do you think this mod is worth the effort as the signal would be regenerated by the superior clocks in the tx-USBultra?

 

Looking forward to your report.

 

I think nobody can answer this question. If I had to guess, I would say - probably. 

 

And BTW - I wish SOtM offered a sMS-200lite version that would lack the whole input voltage regulator board and just run from 5V supply. 

 

This is the board I'm talking about:

 

[mozes]

6 hours ago, romaz said:

 

Based on output impedance alone, I don't believe so (based on my rough calculations and I could be wrong).  Vinnie Rossi's LIO's ultracap PSU has a stated output impedance of 16 milliohms which is superior to many other PSUs but remember, according to Paul Hynes, an exceptional output impedance should be <10 millohms over a broad frequency range and his SR7 has a measured output impedance of <3 milliohms from DC to 100kHz. Anyway, based on photos I've seen, Vinnie's LIO utilizes 9 ultracaps per bank which would be equivalent to about 1.78 milliohms per ultracap.  I'm not sure if Vinnie is using the same ultracap in his Mini DC-4EVR PSU and I'm not sure how many ultracaps he's using per bank but almost certainly, it's going to be well over 3 milliohms.

 

The claim to fame of battery PSUs is that they have no leakage current that can lead to ground loops.  Paul claims that his floating rail design similarly results in no electrical potential differential (ground loops).

 

In the end, the proof is in the listening.  I have heard Vinnie's Mini several times at shows but I have never directly compared the 2.

Thanks @romaz for your detailed answer, very informative!

[guerph]

6 hours ago, limniscate said:

Does anyone know anything about the new W4S LPS?

 

https://www.wyred4sound.com/products/upgrades-mods-accessories/ps-1-modular-linear-power-supply

I have one and love it. I use two modules currently, one powers the sMS-200 and the other powers my 2Qute. I just ordered a third module to power the tx-USBultra.

[mozes]

7 hours ago, limniscate said:

That was not our (@austinpop and I) experience.  When we just had the switch in place, it made just as big of a difference as when we had just the tX-USB Ultra in place.

Yes that was enlightening

[AmusedToD]

@romaz, what do you think would be the ideal upgrade path in my case.

 

I have the SMS-200 powered by the Sbooster 12v linear PSU. Next week I will add the tx-USBultra after the SMS-200. I ordered the 12V version.

 

In order to avoid paying big money for Ethernet cables, I decided to go with a wifi dongle for the SMS-200. Therefore, I won't be using a switch, just my Asus dual band router.

 

You reported big SQ gains from using the tx-USBultra clock with your switch. Would it be possible to use its clock for the router and would it affect SQ (having in mind the data would travel wirelessly from my PC server to the streamer)? If yes, would both the router and the tx-USBultra need to be sent to SOTM for modifications?

 

Would there be any benefits in adding a linear PSU (or even an Ifi iPower) to a WiFi router in my case?

 

If my both my PC server and the sms200 are on the wifi network, should I bridge the connections for further SQ gains or not?

 

Sorry for bombarding you with questions, but you are obviously one of the most knowledgeable persons around here.  

[romaz]

4 hours ago, Elberoth said:

Anyone tried getting rid of the regulator board from the sMS-200 ?

 

I just got this tip from another forum member:

 

If you want to get the most out of your SMS then open up the box remove the external regulator board and inject 5v straight onto the main board. Lord knows how sotm managed to produce such an awful reg board but if you use the sonore battery psu or Paul Hynes reg straight into main board the results are superb.

 

I'm gonna try this on my return from Munich High End show. I have just opened the sMS-200 up and it seems like a very easy mod to perform. 

 

The original regulator board uses a DC/DC converter (probably to accomodate a vide range of input voltages) and those tend to be very noisy. It makes zero sense to pass the power via this regulator, if you can set the LPS-1 to 5V and power the device directly.

 

 

 

I got this tip as well from a CA member, not sure if it's the same one.  It was this info that led me to reach out to Paul Hynes to provide me regulators for the Adnaco I will be modifying.  

[Johnseye]

9 hours ago, romaz said:

 

So, my Adnaco S3B has come in and it is indeed very good and the combination of Adnaco + tX-USBUltra is just heavenly.  I see great potential with the Adnaco with its clocks replaced.

 

Is the S3B single mode and does it use laser or is it multimode LED?  Any reference to the noise generated by the transmitters?

 

9 hours ago, romaz said:

 

Where SOtM's sound signature is this wonderful detail clarity, it can also sound a bit thin.  If there has been a criticism with their latest Ultra server, this is it and perhaps, this signature is even intentional.  This is why I value AO with its sound signatures and digital filters because it allows me to put a bit of meat on the bones of the SOtM.  I generally value silver over copper DC cabling but I have intentionally gone with copper with my SOtM gear.  

 

This is where I've struggled.  My system is built for clarity from end to end.  When comparing the sMS-200 with mR one of the differences is with that perceived fullness, or softness.  At first I thought it provided some balance, but after an extended trip and not listening to my system for a while I went back and compared the two again.  This perspective led me back to the sMS-200.  The dimensionality and clarity gained is far more appealing to me than any softening, which now sounds like a veil, and is everything I've tried to remove from my signature.

 

[romaz]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

Could someone with a relationship please ask SOTM if the clocks are synchronized in some way?  My guess is they can't be as each clock can run at different multiples. Nevertheless synchronization in this way would explain the SQ quality benefits observed here. Otherwise, in theory, upgrading independent clocks in each device should be able to deliver the same benefits.

 

 

This is on my list of questions to ask at Munich, Larry, but my guess is that they are synchronized.  In the same way that a motherboard has a "master" clock that then provides synchronous timing to a various sublocks of different base frequency via a clock generator, digital clock manager, or PLL, it could be the same thing here.  My basis for believing this is that this board has an external master clock option that would provide synchronous timing to these 4 clocks.  It's my guess that this external master clock would essentially supercede the stock internal master clock.

[romaz]

4 hours ago, Elberoth said:

 

I think nobody can answer this question. If I had to guess, I would say - probably. 

 

And BTW - I wish SOtM offered a sMS-200lite version that would lack the whole input voltage regulator board and just run from 5V supply. 

 

This is the board I'm talking about:

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that if you ordered a "custom" sMS-200 directly from SOtM, that they would do this for you since they have full control of manufacturing.  It's amazing how open they have been to my mods requests even though they sometimes don't agree with what I have requested.  I think their main boundary is that they won't mod another audio company's product.

[seeteeyou]

Since we've quite a bit of interest in DC cables lately, here's one more tweak for everyone and pretty much all reviews from Japan seemed to be very positive so far

 

http://www.megatech.tokyo

https://www.amazon.com/FINEMET-FT-3AM-B4AR-F1AH0434-length/dp/B00NE1QQ8W

https://www.amazon.com/Finemet-saturable-core-MP1006LF3T-length/dp/B00R5GWP2S

 

http://www.kaijin-musen.jp/211_8756.html

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ファインメットビーズ-１０個-FT-3AM-B4AR-全長7mm-穴径1-6mm/dp/B00NE1QQ8W

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ファインメットビーズ-１００個-FT-3AM-B4AR-全長7mm-穴径1-6mm/dp/B00QZML3NU

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ファインメット-可飽和コア-４個-MP1006LF3T-全長6-4mm-直径11-4mm-穴径4-8mm/dp/B00R5GWP2S

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/142562-microsd-memory-card-transport-project-63.html#post3615018

 

Nanocrystalline Soft Magnetic Material FINEMET

http://www.manz-electronic.com/product_hitachi-metals_1.html
https://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/products/elec/tel/pdf/hl-fm4-k.pdf#page=29
http://www.hitachimetals.com/materials-products/amorphous-nanocrystalline/surge-absorbers.php

http://audioexotics.vanillaforums.com/discussion/13000/zanden-chukoh-宙光-sound-unheard-of

Quote

Well, I have to confess I am a total layman on technical specification, however, I first came across a newly developed material called FINEMET was used in Zanden's Choku, the Chukoh also employs this material in its output and input transformers. One sonic trait of having FINEMET transformer is low noise and a more organic sound (better tonality, absence of hardness, speed and attack).

 

[romaz]

4 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

@romaz, what do you think would be the ideal upgrade path in my case.

 

I have the SMS-200 powered by the Sbooster 12v linear PSU. Next week I will add the tx-USBultra after the SMS-200. I ordered the 12V version.

 

In order to avoid paying big money for Ethernet cables, I decided to go with a wifi dongle for the SMS-200. Therefore, I won't be using a switch, just my Asus dual band router.

 

You reported big SQ gains from using the tx-USBultra clock with your switch. Would it be possible to use its clock for the router and would it affect SQ (having in mind the data would travel wirelessly from my PC server to the streamer)? If yes, would both the router and the tx-USBultra need to be sent to SOTM for modifications?

 

Would there be any benefits in adding a linear PSU (or even an Ifi iPower) to a WiFi router in my case?

 

If my both my PC server and the sms200 are on the wifi network, should I bridge the connections for further SQ gains or not?

 

Sorry for bombarding you with questions, but you are obviously one of the most knowledgeable persons around here.  

 

 

If you have the ability to bridge 2 LAN cards in your PC server, that would be your most inexpensive option to get an upgrade in SQ.  I would start there.  Directly removing the router from the path between your server and sMS-200 should result in a very notable improvement.  Don't worry about spending big money on Ethernet cables.  SQ is already very good with an inexpensive BJC CAT6A.  Move up to better Ethernet cables only as a finishing touch but I would allocate resources elsewhere for now.

 

I have tried powering my modem/router with a linear PSU and there is a notable improvement using my HDPlex and more so with my SR7.  If you have a spare rail, give it a go and see what you think.

 

You should notice a rather large improvement by following your sMS-200 with the tX-USBultra but this is provided you can power the tX-USBultra with something at least to the caliber of your Sbooster.  You could send your router to SOtM to tap the extra clocks in your tX-USBultra, however, you may not notice a huge improvement unless you also replace all the clocks in your motherboard.  It remains my belief based on observations that if you follow a good clock with a bunch of bad clocks (that are in your motherboard), you will negate the benefits of that good clock.  If you are intent on taking advantage of those unused clocks in your tX-USBultra, consider doing what Rajiv has done and send in your sMS-200 and a switch for clock replacement.

[limniscate]

Quote

Hi Richard, as many already pointed out, exceeding the performance of the amp you have without "amping up" the investment very significantly might be a tall order. As you enjoy the sound of M625 S2 but you would like more power, I warmly recommend the Rowland M725 S2 class A/B monos or the Rowland M825 stereo, or the M925 monos. Outside the Rowland World, I might look at Solution amps.... Quite expensive, but yield a musicality that also meets my sound concept.

 

But there is something you can do to enhance the music of your system while keeping M625 S2, Corus, and the Aeris DAC.... Last week I have installed the recently released Rowland Power Storage Unit (PSU). As I mentioned via email, this is an external full chassis power supply based on ultra-capacitors. It is designed to feed simultaneously Aeris and Corus with pure DC, and takes them off the AC mains grid. I had heard glowing third party reports on it, but I was a little skeptical... While I have not had ultra-capacitors in my system, I understood the concept, and have had battery powered pre-amplifcation before.... And the performance difference between batteries and AC was very subtle.

 

But when I connected PSU into the Rowland Aeris DAC I realized that batteries supplies and PSU are totally different animals... The performance enhancement is simply staggering, even on my system which I already considered wonderful, where Aeris feeds directly a pair of Rowland M925 4-chassis monoblocks into Vienna Acoustics Die Muzik. The enhancement is apparent from first activation for all audible parameters I can think of, and is followed by a rapid evolution lasting perhaps 200 hours, which pushes performance even futher.

 

I will soon create a dedicated thread on PSU with a lot more detail.

 

Guido

 

This is a post from Audiogon.

 

This new Rowland PSU looks like an Uptone LPS-1 type solution for DAC and Pre.

 

Guido, the OP, reviews for Positive Feedback.

[romaz]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

Is the S3B single mode and does it use laser or is it multimode LED?  Any reference to the noise generated by the transmitters?

 

 

You have the option of either, John.  Single mode adds $80 to the price.  Cables are cheap either way.  Not sure about noise generated by the transmitters but there is an unmistakable improvement in clarity with the S3B vs my server's stock USB port.

 

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

This is where I've struggled.  My system is built for clarity from end to end.  When comparing the sMS-200 with mR one of the differences is with that perceived fullness, or softness.  At first I thought it provided some balance, but after an extended trip and not listening to my system for a while I went back and compared the two again.  This perspective led me back to the sMS-200.  The dimensionality and clarity gained is far more appealing to me than any softening, which now sounds like a veil, and is everything I've tried to remove from my signature.

 

2

 

I feel the same way.  I prefer the added dimensionality and clarity of the sMS-200 but there are some within my audiophile group that prefer the mR.  They both have something to offer.

[ElviaCaprice]

27 minutes ago, romaz said:

You should notice a rather large improvement by following your sMS-200 with the tX-USBultra but this is provided you can power the tX-USBultra with something at least to the caliber of your Sbooster.  You could send your router to SOtM to tap the extra clocks in your tX-USBultra, however, you may not notice a huge improvement unless you also replace all the clocks in your motherboard.  It remains my belief based on observations that if you follow a good clock with a bunch of bad clocks (that are in your motherboard), you will negate the benefits of that good clock.  If you are intent on taking advantage of those unused clocks in your tX-USBultra, consider doing what Rajiv has done and send in your sMS-200 and a switch for clock replacement.

 

You lost me here, Roy.  You have yet to replace your mobo clocks but you saw a big improvement in SQ with the SOTM products and new clocking.  I thought you were in the mindset that working back from the DAC upstream that the best clock is first next to the DAC and so on. 

I don't know that we can say that better clocking in the mobo is really the panacea that we are hoping for, without the ability to provide clean power throughout the mobo.  Which in my opinion comes first and foremost over any new clocking.

All we know, so far from observation, is that placing a bad clock after a better clock, downstream, seems to effect SQ negatively.  Same can be said for power supplies.

 

It could just be that once we can power the server/mobo with quality power throughout the stream that clocking becomes insignificant thru the remaining downstream as long as we maintain clean power.  Idea being that there is no need to fix the audio stream which was effected by bad power in the beginning stages of the stream.

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

You lost me here, Roy.  You have yet to replace your mobo clocks but you saw a big improvement in SQ with the SOTM products and new clocking.  I thought you were in the mindset that working back from the DAC upstream that the best clock is first next to the DAC and so on. 

I don't know that we can say that better clocking in the mobo is really the panacea that we are hoping for, without the ability to provide clean power throughout the mobo.  Which in my opinion comes first and foremost over any new clocking.

All we know, so far from observation, is that placing a bad clock after a better clock seems to effect SQ negatively.  Same can be said for power supplies.

 

I'm sure Roy will speak for himself but we will both be powering our servers with the SR7 and is the driving need for the 12v.  So good clean power is being provided. 

 

The effort then is to determine benefits from better clocks upstream to the endpoint and to what end. To the NAS or router? The jury is still out but once Roy's server is built we will know more. Although Roy's new server is a bit more than clock upgrades so there's that complexity. 

[ElviaCaprice]

23 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

I'm sure Roy will speak for himself but we will both be powering our servers with the SR7 and is the driving need for the 12v.  So good clean power is being provided. 

 

The effort then is to determine benefits from better clocks upstream to the endpoint and to what end. To the NAS or router? The jury is still out but once Roy's server is built we will know more. Although Roy's new server is a bit more than clock upgrades so there's that complexity. 

 

Yes, but you will fail to address still the faults of the regulators on the mobo which create poor power regardless of how clean the original power supply is.  At least so far.

 

I repeat, which you missed.

It could just be that once we can power the server/mobo with quality power throughout the stream that clocking becomes insignificant (to a certain degree) thru the remaining downstream as long as we maintain clean power.  Idea being that there is no need to fix the audio stream which was effected by bad power in the beginning stages of the stream.

 

I will also add as long as those remaining clocks are sufficient enough not to create new jitter/noise.  If I am correct then the streaming chain becomes much more simple and short, server to DAC.

[AmusedToD]

37 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

If you have the ability to bridge 2 LAN cards in your PC server, that would be your most inexpensive option to get an upgrade in SQ.  I would start there.  Directly removing the router from the path between your server and sMS-200 should result in a very notable improvement.  Don't worry about spending big money on Ethernet cables.  SQ is already very good with an inexpensive BJC CAT6A.  Move up to better Ethernet cables only as a finishing touch but I would allocate resources elsewhere for now.

 

I have tried powering my modem/router with a linear PSU and there is a notable improvement using my HDPlex and more so with my SR7.  If you have a spare rail, give it a go and see what you think.

 

You should notice a rather large improvement by following your sMS-200 with the tX-USBultra but this is provided you can power the tX-USBultra with something at least to the caliber of your Sbooster.  You could send your router to SOtM to tap the extra clocks in your tX-USBultra, however, you may not notice a huge improvement unless you also replace all the clocks in your motherboard.  It remains my belief based on observations that if you follow a good clock with a bunch of bad clocks (that are in your motherboard), you will negate the benefits of that good clock.  If you are intent on taking advantage of those unused clocks in your tX-USBultra, consider doing what Rajiv has done and send in your sMS-200 and a switch for clock replacement.

 

Thanks @romaz for taking the time and effort to reply to my questions. I would love to meet you in person at the show in Munich, if you have the time of course. I also need to see May as I will be collecting my tx-USBultra in person at the show. May was kind enough to bring along the ultra to the show and save me some  cash on shipping and customs. SOTM really is a great company to deal with!

 

Regaring bridging two LAN cards in my PC, please note I am using a late 2014 iMac, so I am not really sure this can be done due to the construction of the computer. If you have a suggestion how to overcome this, I would highly appreciate that.

 

But what about my WIFI (PC) -WIFI (streamer) proposal for establishing connection between my PC and sms200? I know some users have reported SQ gains by using a wifi dongle instead of LAN (and May also suggested to me this can be a legitimate "upgrade" path).

 

I emailed May some 10 days ago and told her I couldn't connect a TP LINK WiFi dongle (RTL8812AU chip) to the sms200 as the streamer didn't recognize the device, and today a firmware upgrade appeared with a code for recognizing this specific dongle. I can only call this superb customer service (even though I returned the dongle and ordered another one, so I won't have the chance to test whether the new firmware actually works with this specific dongle).

 

The Sbooster should be on par with the LPS1 according to HB channel on YouTube, but I am wandering whether using an even better 12V PSU with the tx-USBultra will render more significant SQ gains. Sotm's Sps-1000 comes to mind, and allows powering of 3 devices with different voltages simultaneously.

[ted_b]

34 minutes ago, romaz said:

 Not sure about noise generated by the transmitters but there is an unmistakable improvement in clarity with the S3B vs my server's stock USB port.

Roy, thanks for all this.  I am contemplating trying the S3B (as Larry is recommending it too).  My comparison will be an NAA setup (I have two; Windows NAA and microRendu as NAA).  If S3B brings more clarity and body, then great, I jettison the NAA idea.  But Jussi's NAA approach offers some benefits (like simple dac driver environment) that I;m not sure the S3B will also ameliorate.  What say you?

[ted_b]

Double post