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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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3 hours ago, Elberoth said:

 

What extra flexibility do you have in mind when talking about the 10MHz clock option ? 

 

To me, the external clock means more cables, an extra box, and substantially higher cost. 

 

I also have problems seeing any benefits an external clock could provide vs an internal clock, unless the later is of poor quality (It is important to not that the real world phase noise numbers will be degraded by extra cabling, connectors and additional PPL used to get 12MHz clock needed by the SmS-200. So even if you use the best in the world 10MHz clock with ultra low phase noise, the real world #s will be much, much worse. It is even possible that $25 Crystek clock Alex is using in the ISO Regen will have less phase noise than the 10MHz clock + cabling + PLL combination).  

 

To be fair to @romaz, this question is best addressed to SOtM directly.

 

Neither of us have experienced the SQ benefits, if any, of driving the tX-USBultra (or dX, or sMS-200ultra) with an external master clock. Our clock experiences so far have been the reverse - with the sCLK-EX board in the tX/dX being the master clock for the modded switch and modded sMS-200.

 

As for your point about the degradation in clock precision with the length of the clock cables from the tX/dX to the modded switch and sMS-200, I shared the same concerns, so went into this project with some trepidation. However, I was relieved and delighted with the outcome. The SQ improvement is unambiguous - and really dramatic.

 

That is the only thing I can report, since I have no way to vary the type and length of clock cables.

 

Every one should make their own decisions when going down this path.

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14 hours ago, magnuska said:

My plan is to power the sms-200 set to 12 volt from a HD plex 200w and the tx-usb ultra with the uptone LPS-1. Could I even power boths of them with the LPS-1 if they are set to 6-9v default?

 

I am using 2 LPS-1s, each set to 7v - 1 powering the modded switch and modded sMS-200, and 1 powering the tX-USBultra.

 

As part of my troubleshooting for the streaming pause problem I detailed in earlier posts, I had occasion to swap the LPS-1 with my HDPlex-100 to power the tX-USBultra, and I felt the SQ took a significant hit.

 

So I highly recommend powering each of the sMS-200ultra and the tX-USBultra with their own LPS-1, set to 7V. But make sure you order both Ultra units with the stock voltage option (6.5-9V), not the 12V option.

 

You will not be able to power both with a single LPS-1 - the current demands will exceed 1.1A.

 

Finally - a caveat. No one has yet received an sMS-200ultra and actually verified that it works within the capacity of an LPS-1. What I have, like @romaz, is a modded sMS-200, which is not the same thing.

 

14 hours ago, magnuska said:

 

I would also need a new short USB cable between the SotM products.

What do you guys recommend there?

 

That's a matter of opinion. I have been very happy with the short 0.2m Curious cables, but I'm sure others will have recommendations.

 

I felt the Curious outperformed the 2 other cables in my possession - the Cardas Clear USB, and the dual-headed Lightspeed 2G, but to be fair, both of these are 2m, and the length may be an issue for SQ.

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12 hours ago, michaeltay5871 said:

I am not sure whether anybody knows about this but it seems that the new Sms-200 ultra is different from the upgraded Sms-200 with ultra clock.  I enquired from May and she replied "The main parts remain the same, but some features would be upgraded, according to the upgraded feature, some component would be added." So the stock or new Sms-200 ultra should sound better than the one with upgraded clock only?

 

I suspect that they have only 2 ultra clocks on the new board because there are other upgraded features and components on the stock Sms-200 ultra.

 

 

Great question, and impossible for any of us outside of SoTM to know the answer.

 

Since the sMS-200ultra costs more than the base sMS-200 + mod costs, one would hope the ultra does sound better, to justify the extra cost. But again, we won't know until head to head comparisons are possible.

 

Once @limniscate gets his unit, we should be able to do a head-to-head!

 

 

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6 hours ago, limniscate said:

I ask May if the SMB connectors negatively affect sound quality.  She said she'll have to test after Munich.

 

4 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

That she didn't immediately say no, and that they haven't tested this yet is concerning. Convenience at the cost of quality is not worth it in my book when we tweak for the smallest improvements. I'm going to wait then until we know for sure. Thanks for asking. 

 

Great question, and would certainly be good to get clarity.

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Back to the original topic of running the micro rendu from a bridged connection ...

 

On Windows 10 CU, I bridged my motherboard NIC (Intel I219-V) with an Asus PCI-E wireless adapter (PCE-AC56).  I successfully streamed some Qobuz music to the micro rendu using BubbleUPnP and DLNA/MPD mode with the micro rendu directly attached to the I219-V.

 

I used to leave the motherboard NIC disabled prior to making the bridge, and the wireless adapter has been rock solid.  Now I'm occasionally losing my internet connection and the Windows 10 network troubleshooter fixes it and says 'default network gateway is unavailable'.

 

I made a static IP for the bridge and double checked that it is correctly set up.

 

Has anyone else experienced and fixed this problem?  Google points to possible problems with drivers, but you know what it's like trying to research this kind of thing with Google ... lots of unreliable information.

 

 

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

I am using 2 LPS-1s, each set to 7v - 1 powering the modded switch and modded sMS-200, and 1 powering the tX-USBultra.

Rajiv--

 

It seems you are using a Y cable on the LPS-1 that is powering both the modded switch and the modded sMS-200. Can you tell us where you got the Y cable, how much it cost, and what other options, if any, you considered?

 

Thank you.

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3 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

Rajiv--

 

It seems you are using a Y cable on the LPS-1 that is powering both the modded switch and the modded sMS-200. Can you tell us where you got the Y cable, how much it cost, and what other options, if any, you considered?

 

Thank you.

 

Sure, happy to.

 

This is the Y-cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q8IKRE, but I plan to make my own soon using Canare 4S6 as per the DIY cables thread. Just haven't had the time.

 

The other option I considered was to use separate LPS-1s for the switch and the sMS-200. However, upon searching all my cupboards and drawers, I came up one LPS-1 short. Further digging under my sofa cushions for spare change still left me about $393.25 short to buy another LPS-1.

 

:D

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4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Sure, happy to.

 

This is the Y-cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q8IKRE, but I plan to make my own soon using Canare 4S6 as per the DIY cables thread. Just haven't had the time.

 

The other option I considered was to use separate LPS-1s for the switch and the sMS-200. However, upon searching all my cupboards and drawers, I came up one LPS-1 short. Further digging under my sofa cushions for spare change still left me about $393.25 short to buy another LPS-1.

 

:D

 

Ha! Love the humor and the quick response. My next question was going to be whether you thought there might be a sonic improvement with separate LPS-1's powering the switch and sMS-200. And it would appear that your answer is:  I don't know (but if I win the lottery, I'll find out quickly). 

 

I guess the real takeaway is that, despite any potential sonic negatives from using the Y cable, you still heard very significant improvements when adding the switch, and so any additional improvements from using a third LPS-1 in your "Ultra Stack" would just be icing on the cake. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

 

Ha! Love the humor and the quick response. My next question was going to be whether you thought there might be a sonic improvement with separate LPS-1's powering the switch and sMS-200. And it would appear that your answer is:  I don't know (but if I win the lottery, I'll find out quickly). 

 

I guess the real takeaway is that, despite any potential sonic negatives from using the Y cable, you still heard very significant improvements when adding the switch, and so any additional improvements from using a third LPS-1 in your "Ultra Stack" would just be icing on the cake. 

 

 

Indeed.

 

We did try 3 LPS-1s when I was at @limniscate and it sounded mighty fine!

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Like others have said, I agree that my Chord DAVE sounds better when fed from the sMS-200 (compared to mRendu or even fed directly from a SOtM sMS 1000SQ Windows Edition) and the sound improved more when it was powered by the LPS-1 and the tx-USBUltra further improved the sound by adding more dynamics and bass notes firmed up.  

However, after spending a couple of years in the wilderness of USB dacs, I've decided to go back to Linn streamers. Consequently, I have a SOtM sMS-200, tx-USBUltra, an LPS-1 and a Curious USB cable that I'll be posting for sale soon. Before I officially list them for sale, I thought I'd let this group know that if you're looking for a package deal on an sMS chain and saving a few bucks, message me offline.

ChrisG

Bend, OR

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6 hours ago, ChrisG said:

Like others have said, I agree that my Chord DAVE sounds better when fed from the sMS-200 (compared to mRendu or even fed directly from a SOtM sMS 1000SQ Windows Edition) and the sound improved more when it was powered by the LPS-1 and the tx-USBUltra further improved the sound by adding more dynamics and bass notes firmed up.  

However, after spending a couple of years in the wilderness of USB dacs, I've decided to go back to Linn streamers. Consequently, I have a SOtM sMS-200, tx-USBUltra, an LPS-1 and a Curious USB cable that I'll be posting for sale soon. Before I officially list them for sale, I thought I'd let this group know that if you're looking for a package deal on an sMS chain and saving a few bucks, message me offline.

curious as to what brings you back to Linn streamers after all these fun tweakings?

certainly I'd think it will cost you a lot more, right?

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10 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I am using 2 LPS-1s, each set to 7v - 1 powering the modded switch and modded sMS-200, and 1 powering the tX-USBultra.

 

As part of my troubleshooting for the streaming pause problem I detailed in earlier posts, I had occasion to swap the LPS-1 with my HDPlex-100 to power the tX-USBultra, and I felt the SQ took a significant hit.

 

So I highly recommend powering each of the sMS-200ultra and the tX-USBultra with their own LPS-1, set to 7V. But make sure you order both Ultra units with the stock voltage option (6.5-9V), not the 12V option.

 

You will not be able to power both with a single LPS-1 - the current demands will exceed 1.1A.

 

Finally - a caveat. No one has yet received an sMS-200ultra and actually verified that it works within the capacity of an LPS-1. What I have, like @romaz, is a modded sMS-200, which is not the same thing.

 

 

That's a matter of opinion. I have been very happy with the short 0.2m Curious cables, but I'm sure others will have recommendations.

 

I felt the Curious outperformed the 2 other cables in my possession - the Cardas Clear USB, and the dual-headed Lightspeed 2G, but to be fair, both of these are 2m, and the length may be an issue for SQ.

 p *§ pu6nhluö  pp'

Vinnie Rossi LIO integrated amp with DAC, Sotm SMS-200 ultra/TX USB ultra, powered by an Uptone LPS-1 Audiostore Roonserver powered by a  HD plex PS. ASUS router AC 68 powered by a Teddy pardo PS, 

Speakers are standmounts Klångedang T1 with external crossover , Rega Planar 3 Lejonklou Slipsik phonostage

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50 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Interesting! :D

 

Sorry about that!:$ Twas my 1 year old daugther trying to say. Dad I don`t like you sitting so much at the computer. Its my turn now...:D

Vinnie Rossi LIO integrated amp with DAC, Sotm SMS-200 ultra/TX USB ultra, powered by an Uptone LPS-1 Audiostore Roonserver powered by a  HD plex PS. ASUS router AC 68 powered by a Teddy pardo PS, 

Speakers are standmounts Klångedang T1 with external crossover , Rega Planar 3 Lejonklou Slipsik phonostage

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12 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I am using 2 LPS-1s, each set to 7v - 1 powering the modded switch and modded sMS-200, and 1 powering the tX-USBultra.

 

As part of my troubleshooting for the streaming pause problem I detailed in earlier posts, I had occasion to swap the LPS-1 with my HDPlex-100 to power the tX-USBultra, and I felt the SQ took a significant hit.

 

So I highly recommend powering each of the sMS-200ultra and the tX-USBultra with their own LPS-1, set to 7V. But make sure you order both Ultra units with the stock voltage option (6.5-9V), not the 12V option.

 

You will not be able to power both with a single LPS-1 - the current demands will exceed 1.1A.

 

Finally - a caveat. No one has yet received an sMS-200ultra and actually verified that it works within the capacity of an LPS-1. What I have, like @romaz, is a modded sMS-200, which is not the same thing.

 

 

That's a matter of opinion. I have been very happy with the short 0.2m Curious cables, but I'm sure others will have recommendations.

 

I felt the Curious outperformed the 2 other cables in my possession - the Cardas Clear USB, and the dual-headed Lightspeed 2G, but to be fair, both of these are 2m, and the length may be an issue for SQ.

Its me again, she"s asleep now....quick reply now..

 

Thanks Austinpop for your reply.

 

I read the fine review at audiostream and he put the best powersupply on the tx-usb ultra wich seems logic. The question is though if my HD plex is not good enough. I have not heard the previous HD plex 100 w and mine is the upgraded new version they ve jus released.  It sounds actually pretty good. On par with my Teddy pardo. Why would you not recommend the 12 v option on the sms Ultra?

 

Regards Magnus

Vinnie Rossi LIO integrated amp with DAC, Sotm SMS-200 ultra/TX USB ultra, powered by an Uptone LPS-1 Audiostore Roonserver powered by a  HD plex PS. ASUS router AC 68 powered by a Teddy pardo PS, 

Speakers are standmounts Klångedang T1 with external crossover , Rega Planar 3 Lejonklou Slipsik phonostage

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24 minutes ago, magnuska said:

 

Sorry about that!:$ Twas my 1 year old daugther trying to say. Dad I don`t like you sitting so much at the computer. Its my turn now...:D

 

No worries, I understood it was an accident of some kind. Just could´nt resist to reply! ;) 

 

 

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1 hour ago, magnuska said:

The question is though if my HD plex is not good enough. I have not heard the previous HD plex 100 w and mine is the upgraded new version they ve jus released.  It sounds actually pretty good. On par with my Teddy pardo.

 

I missed that. I have no experience with the new 200w units, so do not know how they sound.

 

1 hour ago, magnuska said:
Why would you not recommend the 12 v option on the sms Ultra?

 

Simply because it then eliminates the possibility of using it with an LPS-1. You'd be looking at more expensive units like the VR MINI or the Paul Haynes SR5/SR7 to achieve that level of quality or better.

 

The reason SOtM offer the 12v option is not because it is sonically superior, but because it allows you to match to an existing PSU you may already have.

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8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I missed that. I have no experience with the new 200w units, so do not know how they sound.

 

 

Simply because it then eliminates the possibility of using it with an LPS-1. You'd be looking at more expensive units like the VR MINI or the Paul Haynes SR5/SR7 to achieve that level of quality or better.

 

The reason SOtM offer the 12v option is not because it is sonically superior, but because it allows you to match to an existing PSU you may already have.

Are you sure that the sMS-200 Ultra can be powered by an Uptone LPS-1?  The website says that the max current input is 2A.

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http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/sotm4/1.html 

 

Not a review, but Srajan seems to have been having a bad day when he wrote this up. Echoes many of my frustrations...

" Where the Ultra goes ultra is price. Competing devices with a single output sell for half or less. How many users will exploit the tx-USBultra's ability to distribute source signal to two devices is questionable. While on the q word, ditto for packaging devices whose purpose is to minimize noise with switch-mode wall warts which inject their own HF noise into the power line, hence partnering gear. Sure, it might motivate diehards to shell out even more for a linear or battery supply. Bravo, you get to sell them an extra box*. 'cept that the battery versions invariably arrive with their own SMPS for charging. Hey, sell them one more box. Why, argh, can't this type of kit arrive with a linear supply built in? How about this: "If you use two USB output ports at the same time, the sound might degrade so we recommend using one port." Why then have two in the first place? To run a reclocked printer? There's more: "If you don't use the product, turn off power by unplugging the power supply." Really? For $990, that's how one turns things off? No comment."

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On 5/4/2017 at 10:58 AM, seeteeyou said:

I dunno where to put this but many of us should be interested in replacing DC cables with even better ones

 

FYI - recently there's yet another audiophile DC plug available in Taiwan

 

They should be able to ship internationally and here are their contacts

 

http://www.atl-newcablestudio.com/Contact.html

 

DC plugs from Oyaide are only good for bulk wires with 6.3mm diameter or below, however ATL ones are good for anything up to 8mm. Basically that's good for CrystalPower Special and the genuine bulk wires are available in Hong Kong as well as China

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=23058296058

http://www.audiofile.nl/sites/default/files/2014-07-01 R6 Crystal Cable Retail Pricelist.pdf#page=3

 

Of course we could also find a reputable seller on Audiogon etc. and then get one of those genuine Crystal Cables Power cables for cheap, then we could simply replace the IEC plugs on both ends with DC plugs accordingly.

So does anyone know what the price is on this DC plug from Taiwan?

 

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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2 hours ago, limniscate said:

Are you sure that the sMS-200 Ultra can be powered by an Uptone LPS-1?  The website says that the max current input is 2A.

 

No I'm not sure. None of us can be, until someone gets their hands on it and tries. 

 

It was just a reasonable extrapolation from the fact that the tX-USBultra in my sytem runs on an LPS-1. 

 

It may well be that the sMS-200 Ultra is just over "the edge."

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