A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[BigAlMc]

Even if your ISP tells you that you cannot use another router you can. Its simply a case of will your ISP willingly hand over the credentials you need to set up another router or do you need to work harder to find them.

 

For example SKY won't give you the credentials but their router is really crap so I replaced it but it took a couple hours to find the credentials.

 

Technically speaking I'm breaking their terms and conditions but not exactly gonna lose sleep over that.

[Blackmorec]

I’ve spent the past 2.5 years learning about, experimenting with, building, refining and upgrading my streaming network and I can tell you that without doubt the biggest bugaboo has been run-in.  Some components take days, others months and differences aren’t subtle.  Based on my recent experiences with network changes  I recommend waiting at least a week for all the changes made to settle down…then decide whether you have a problem or not.

 

 

 

[MarcelNL]

@LondonDan I'd start with a UTP cable on that Mac and work from there, if that sounds the same talk to your ISP. 

[ASRMichael]

Hi Rob

 

Finally got round to installing new HDPlex cooler. (Bigger & taller). It’s not that it’s 3mm higher it much much bigger. I would say 40% bigger. I used Grizzly paste for everything this time too..
 

Temps at 4.2kHz are around 31-33c playing music. They should get better once paste breaks in. Really good temps considering my CPU i9 10900k is 125w & 3.7c 

 

Also ran out of paste to top heatsinks barely has anything at all. I’ll need to order more. 

 

Few cores are higher but I’ve always had that. My mobo shows 31c on display. 

 

 

[Exocer]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

Hi Rob

 

Finally got round to installing new HDPlex cooler. (Bigger & taller). It’s not that it’s 3mm higher it much much bigger. I would say 40% bigger. I used Grizzly paste for everything this time too..
 

Temps at 4.2kHz are around 31-33c playing music. They should get better once paste breaks in. Really good temps considering my CPU i9 10900k is 125w & 3.7c 

 

Also ran out of paste to top heatsinks barely has anything at all. I’ll need to order more. 

 

Few cores are higher but I’ve always had that. My mobo shows 31c on display. 

 

 

The temps look nice and low! Do you notice an improvement in SQ with the lower temps? Will contact Larry to find out more about this new kit. 

 

Cheers,

-Rob

[ASRMichael]

10 minutes ago, Exocer said:

The temps look nice and low! Do you notice an improvement in SQ with the lower temps? Will contact Larry to find out more about this new kit. 

 

Cheers,

-Rob

Too early to tell! I believe my system take 2-3 days to stabilise after being unplugged for 4 hours. 

[MarcelNL]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

Too early to tell! I believe my system take 2-3 days to stabilise after being unplugged for 4 hours. 

Do you keep it on 24/7? 

 I leave my DAC on 24/7 and the LPSU's for various parts meaning the OXCO in the I2S card stays nice and cosy.

 

I stopped having the PC on 24/7 so when I installed the Ryzen 9, it's power consumption must be considerable...must play with that once I reach a stable point in progress.

[ASRMichael]

15 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

Do you keep it on 24/7? 

 I leave my DAC on 24/7 and the LPSU's for various parts meaning the OXCO in the I2S card stays nice and cosy.

 

I stopped having the PC on 24/7 so when I installed the Ryzen 9, it's power consumption must be considerable...must play with that once I reach a stable point in progress.

Always 24/7! I didn’t install heating in my converted garage because I knew it would get it warmth from my hifi! 
 

If My amp is off then I turn it on It takes an hour to sound its best. 

[romaz]

On 7/27/2021 at 4:30 PM, Superdad said:

The Jaegers are okay but expensive, inconvenient to work with, and not often in good stock.

But I hold GX16 connectors in extremely low regard. Most of those to be had are garbage from China, you can buy a bag of 30 sets (male and female pairs) for $6!

 

Frankly we would like to see everyone move to the really terrific Neutrik speakON connectors. Exceptional flat contact area, very high current capability, 1mOhm contact resistance. Plus super easy to work with, accepts big wire, readily available in 2, 4, and 8 pole versions--all at reasonable prices.

https://www.neutrik.com/en/products/audio/speakon

 

According to Paul Hynes:

Gold-plated DIN connector:  5 milliohms impedance

Silver-plated XLR connector:  3 milliohms

Jaeger:  <1 milliohm

 

According to Sean Jacobs and Farad:
GX-16:  3 milliohms

 

With the GX16 4-pin connectors, if 2 pins are paralleled, you can cut impedance in half to about 1.5 milliohms.  

 

Neutrik Speakon connector (according to Neutrik):  ≤3 milliohms  (https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/nl4fc)

 

So the Speakon not really better than GX-16.

 

The GX-16 connectors currently being used in the ARC6 prototype are sourced in the U.K. and are 10x the cost of the ones you can buy from China.

 

A potential option yet to be explored are the Anderson PowerPole connectors which report a contact resistance of only 0.6 milliohms:

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-261g2-powerpole-contact-pp45

https://www.acerracing.com/collections/powerpole-connectors

 

For reference, the resistance of 16awg copper DC wire is about 4 milliohms per foot.

 

Barrel connectors have a contact resistance of about 30 milliohms each! 

 

If you're using 1 meter of DC wire with barrel connectors on each end, then your ultra low impedance PSU is no longer ultra low impedance.  With so much effort to get the ARC6 to sub 1-milliohm levels, you potentially throw away the effort if you use long DC cabling and bad connectors and so while the connectors on the final spec ARC6 DC4 has yet to be established, the GX-16 connectors are by far not your worst option.

 

[romaz]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:23 PM, seeteeyou said:

 

Just a few examples

 

https://www.transphormusa.com/en/evaluation-kit/tdinv3500p100-kit/

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/transphorm/TDINV3500P100-KIT/7926549

https://www.psma.com/sites/default/files/uploads/tech-forums-semiconductor/presentations/is082-portable-power-people-inergy-realizes-its-vision-transphorm-gan.pdf

 

I would treat that more like a bonus for me if I were getting positive results for audio applications.

 

Otherwise, better be safe than sorry these days since next disaster could very well be just around the corner. It could be flood or just about anything that we couldn't even imagine IMHO. Maybe that "Plan B" might end up saving our lives but who knows?

 

 

Hmm, definitely worth exploring!  

[MarcelNL]

I often use a connector for easy tinkering, but once cabling is final I use a straight cable no connectors.

[matthias]

54 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

I often use a connector for easy tinkering, but once cabling is final I use a straight cable no connectors.

 

I modified all components with Neutrik PowerCon 32 A connectors which get power from a hard-wired distribution block powered by one AWG 5 cable.

 

Matt

[Exocer]

3 hours ago, romaz said:

https://www.acerracing.com/collections/powerpole-connectors

@romaz I have not seen these connectors for at least 20 years! Back when I used to build battery packs to race in "stock" class RC touring cars, before brushless motors in the RC world were a thing we upgraded to this connectors from the standard "Tamiya" type connectors.

 

We then switched to Deans Ultra Plugs which were capable of handling more current and some seriously beastly LiPo battery packs. I found an old article which states the resistance as follows. These connectors handle some high voltages and high current from powerful brushless motors. I wonder if these are worth considering? Resistance seems very low:

 

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=826252&d=1147360609

 

 

 

I actually have a bunch of these laying around and never thought to use them for audio! May have to re-consider that. The onlydrawback is the contact area is very small.

http://wsdeans.com/products/plugs/ultra_plug.html

 

 

[ray-dude]

16 minutes ago, Exocer said:

I actually have a bunch of these laying around and never thought to use them for audio!

 

We actually had a lot of early success in our DC power experiments by "borrowing" components and strategies from competitive drone and RC racers - the goals of instant response to dynamic loads is very aligned, and it was shocking how well things scaled even at extreme dynamic current capabilities (1000A, etc).  

 

I think there is much to be harvested and learned from these adjacent spaces (almost all of which is a lot cheaper than what we're used to dealing with at the bleeding edge).  All the better if you have a closet full of parts to experiment with (please share as you find out what is working and not working for audio!)

 

 

[kennyb123]

4 hours ago, romaz said:

If you're using 1 meter of DC wire with barrel connectors on each end, then your ultra low impedance PSU is no longer ultra low impedance.

I always wondered about “connector madness” with DC cables and why high end audio manufacturers hadn’t standardized on barrel connectors.  I finally have my answer.  Thank you.

[Exocer]

48 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 All the better if you have a closet full of parts to experiment with (please share as you find out what is working and not working for audio!)

I will soon experiment with my DIY Sean Jacobs DC3, switching from questionable GX-16 connectors/Oyaide barrel to the Deans Ultra Plugs on both ends and report back.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

[elan120]

27 minutes ago, Exocer said:

I will soon experiment with my DIY Sean Jacobs DC3, switching from questionable GX-16 connectors/Oyaide barrel to the Deans Ultra Plugs on both ends and report back.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

Looking forward to your experiment result.  I also have a good stack of Deans ultra connectors on my bench, if it turn out to be better, I will follow your step to convert them.

 

[romaz]

4 hours ago, matthias said:

 

I modified all components with Neutrik PowerCon 32 A connectors which get power from a hard-wired distribution block powered by one AWG 5 cable.

 

Matt

 

Boulder amps use 250V 32A connectors and that connector is just massive:

Even though the Neutrik PowerCon 32A connectors can pass 32A of 250V AC, the contact resistance of that connector is only still about 3 milliohms and so with regards to contact resistance for low voltage power supplies like the ARC6, this connector is not really an improvement over the GX-16:

 

 

[romaz]

39 minutes ago, Exocer said:

I will soon experiment with my DIY Sean Jacobs DC3, switching from questionable GX-16 connectors/Oyaide barrel to the Deans Ultra Plugs on both ends and report back.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

 

Yes, very much interested to know your findings. 

 

With the giant LiFePO4 batteries I have here, without spending a lot of money, you can buy these 6awg DC cables terminated with ring terminals on one end (to connect to the battery) and PowerPole connectors on the other end to connect to the power supply.  These connectors are genderless and very securely snap on.  They can also be crimped instead of soldered for a more secure fit without the coloration that soldering adds.  

 

https://www.impulseelectronics.com/power-cable-75-amp-powerpole-to-eyelet-terminal/

https://powerwerx.com/5900-bk-anderson-power-6awg

[romaz]

But for all out "low impedance", it looks like the Dean's ULT might be the best:

 

0.13 milliohms is nearly an order of magnitude less impedance than the GX-16.

[seeteeyou]

So these RCA jacks turned out to get even lower

 

https://www.wbt.de/fileadmin/content/products/chinchbuchsen/0210_Ag_E_2006_12_14.pdf

https://www.wbt.de/fileadmin/content/products/chinchbuchsen/0210_AgMs_E_2006_12_14.pdf

Quote

− Permanent current ID > 20 A
− Transition resistance Rü < 0.1 mOhm (loop measured with WBT -0110)
− Contact resistance RBi ,RBa< 0.1 mOhm (patch resistance, inner / outer) 

 

Even the signal conductor is made of high-purity silver, does it get any better that?

[ASRMichael]

5 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

So these RCA jacks turned out to get even lower

 

https://www.wbt.de/fileadmin/content/products/chinchbuchsen/0210_Ag_E_2006_12_14.pdf

https://www.wbt.de/fileadmin/content/products/chinchbuchsen/0210_AgMs_E_2006_12_14.pdf

 

Even the signal conductor is made of high-purity silver, does it get any better that?

My ASR Emitter II amp uses the WBT connectors. 
 

I wonder what ohms my ASR Power Amps have. The connector is the biggest connector I’ve ever seen! Industrial like. 
 

 

[seeteeyou]

21 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

My ASR Emitter II amp uses the WBT connectors.

 

It's such a nostalgic experience to read our latest discussions, back in 2015 we're all about trying all kinda crazy mods with the original Chord Hugo in addition to quite a few USB DDCs by adding or replacing batteries / supercaps / WBT connectors / Mundorf Silver Gold etc.

 

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=180&t=3814233&p=38#50452533

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=180&t=3814233&p=86#54231214

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=180&t=3814233&p=126#56002314

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=180&t=3814233&p=131#56512554

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=180&t=3814233&p=135#56626889

http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1917714&page=1#pid29248762

 

 

 

 

 

Stock Hugo totally drove us nuts because of those recessed RCA jacks while we did understand the constraints of portable devices, many of us would love to try better cables without any adapters but only a few RCA connectors were a good fit.

 

Eventually some of us just went all out to get rid of those recessed RCA jacks, and then they're replaced by WBT-0210 Ag with Mundorf Silver Gold wires afterwards.

 

However, all of those jacks were meant for connecting coaxial S/PDIF cables or RCA interconnects. None of us actually tried replacing a DC barrel power jack with WBT-0210 Ag yet, therefore it could be an interesting experiment for sure.

 

---

 

BTW, I'm aware that a local shop here in Hong Kong should have replaced DC barrel power jacks with either Viborg CF201(R) or CM201(R) as shown below

 

https://www.facebook.com/Wilmer-Workshop-475207072498951/photos/3775937212425904

https://www.facebook.com/Wilmer-Workshop-475207072498951/photos/3775937255759233

 

However, I'm not sure about they're good enough for the high caliber of DC4 ARC6 despite their XLR contact pins with pure copper

 

http://www.viborgaudio.com/en/About/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192870395769

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323808402620

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=574760242779

https://www.amazon.com/VIBORG-Chassis-Connector-Insulator-Rhodium/dp/B07HK836PL

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/xlr-sockets/viborg-cm201-r-3-poles-male-xlr-panel-plug-silver-rhodium-plated-pure-copper-unit-p-13361.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/xlr-sockets/viborg-cf201-r-3-poles-female-xlr-panel-plug-silver-rhodium-plated-pure-copper-unit-p-13362.html

[Rovo]

Hello Exocer (Rob),

 

is it possible to supply me with the dimensions of the Taiko rectifier PCB board? I am building my own PC chassis and would like to check if it will fit.

 

Kind regards,

 

Robert

 

[Exocer]

5 hours ago, Rovo said:

Hello Exocer (Rob),

 

is it possible to supply me with the dimensions of the Taiko rectifier PCB board? I am building my own PC chassis and would like to check if it will fit.

 

Kind regards,

 

Robert

 

Hey,

It measures 12.5cm by 7cm.

 

Cheers,

-Rob