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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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On 7/26/2021 at 3:47 AM, romaz said:

Low output impedance is just as important as low noise with respect to SQ when designing a PSU and is more difficult to achieve.  If low noise is all that mattered, then why not just use batteries for everything?  Try battery powering a DAVE with any ol' cheap battery that you can buy from Amazon such as a PowerAdd that are designed for recharging cell phones and what you'll get are soft, slow, and smeared transients, a flat sound stage, and weak dynamic contrasts.  As you start to lower the output impedance from the power source, music starts to take form and comes to life.  It just becomes more 3D and palpable and low output impedance is what differentiates a DC4, SR7, Farad, or LPS-1.2 from the rest.  It's amazing how few ultra-low output impedance PSUs there are that are being sold for audio.  Chances are that if the manufacturer fails to mention "output impedance" or better yet, fails to state the output impedance of their PSU in their ad, that PSU is probably not a low output impedance PSU.  Despite the long wait times for PSUs from Sean Jacobs and Paul Hynes, there's a reason people have queued up for these devices.

 

Hi,

 

I am curious to know if there are any "theoretical" explanations for this, in the context of digital to analog conversion (as I understand you are using these low impendance PS to power a DAC).

 

Thanks

my blog

 

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2 hours ago, RickyV said:

@Superdad?

 

Wouldn’t these do as a hi power choke?

MUNDORF VN236, 10mH, 5%, FERON ZOC, Ø2,5mm viOFC

 

$225 seems a bit over-priced, with nothing really to show it being much better than the $25 Hammond we use, except "oxygen free copper" wire.  9_9

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Anyone experience this with sound change? I live in a series of tall flats that historically only had virgin media cable. Fibre to street then coaxial cable to flats. This last few weeks a fibre provider installed fibre cable to every flat. The whole area is brand new install for them. Mine was installed yesterday and I am one of the first to switch on. Everything in the system remains the same (switches cables etc LPS) except the modem is now a fibre modem before my edge router x instead of cable modem. Even the LPS 12 is the same.

 

the sound with new equipment is more compressed and bass has decreased.

 

anyone ever changes ISP with totally new gear back to the street and suffered a big decrease in SQ?

 

could it just be that the modem and other fibre equipment from the ISP needs breaking in, it’s all brand new not just a switch of an existing ISP that has been running for years.

 

the modem they gave is Adtran the network is called community fibre, area is London.

 

joins go as follows, fibre up wall 10 floors from their splitter cabinet, pigtail splice to wall socket, 5m fibre patch to modem, modem powered by LPS I was using before.

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7 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

$225 seems a bit over-priced, with nothing really to show it being much better than the $25 Hammond we use, except "oxygen free copper" wire.  9_9


Much thicker wire so lower internal resistance, vacuum impregnated, probably better iron core material.

Over priced, yes and normally use in speaker filters. 🙂

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Raal SR1a

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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12 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Hi,

 

I am curious to know if there are any "theoretical" explanations for this, in the context of digital to analog conversion (as I understand you are using these low impendance PS to power a DAC).

 

Thanks

 

Question can be dismissed. I got confused by the assertion that there were improvements in "transients".

my blog

 

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Does that coil have enough current capacity at all? as far as I can tell that is a speaker filter coil, likely not made with any DC in mind let alone high current DC, likely lacking an air gap so saturating off the bat...just my 2 cents.

 

 

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch on LPS, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Master, Corsair AX1200i, 16Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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anyone interested in an AMD build, I can vouch for the fact that the Aorus Master is well worth the upgrade....straight from the box and everything still cold after the swap....more flavours of nuances, control, inkieness, well many of the audio buzzwords we like so much ;-)

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch on LPS, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Master, Corsair AX1200i, 16Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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Big question now is, add another 8 pin cable or not, did anyone venture into that realm? (probably, I just can't find it)

 

I dare paraphrase someone by saying that this was 'a small step for the CPU but a giant step for SQ"

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch on LPS, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Master, Corsair AX1200i, 16Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

Big question now is, add another 8 pin cable or not, did anyone venture into that realm? (probably, I just can't find it)

If you mean the 2nd 8 pin EPS cable for the CPU, I would say Yes, Its worth it.

My build wasn't an AMD though. It was a Xeon W-1290 on Gigabyte Vision D which had  8+4 pin CPU EPS connectors. I started wiring with just 2 pins and added 1 pair at a time and heard an uptick in SQ, mainly in fullness and dynamics. I ended up fully populating the 8+4 connectors.

 

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thanks! I found the thread meanwhile...and the extra 8Pin connectors I ordered when making the first 8Pin EPS cable...Neotech is ordered so I expect the hear the difference in a few days.

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch on LPS, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Master, Corsair AX1200i, 16Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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First question is : did they test the fibers after installing? We had fiber connected in a new home some years ago and they had to come back three times to repair breaks in the street. I'd start with your ISP, the work may not be finished and it could be they use some backup system for now.

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch on LPS, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Master, Corsair AX1200i, 16Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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thanks everyone for the advice, I appreciate it.

 

I played again this evening familiar streaming tracks - I can tell if it improved, which means if anything its subtle, had TV steaming with sound on all day. Olympics is good for background!

 

I tried wifi streaming over tidal from MacBook, there is no improvement just a slightly different sound vs UPnP as the Laptop connects via usb plus its a laptop and the signature of the Nordorst cable is different but that is as normal (I still need to try the cellular stream over hotspot vs wifi stream) Wifi is into the router prior to Ediscreation Silent Switch Extreme version (network diagram attached).

 

I have run tests offline with Vox (not connected to wifi) Flac files stored on SSD and there is a difference as expected to the streaming but there was a difference before its just a bigger gap now.

 

I disconnected the power to the Modem while playing offline files too, no change so its not an EMI or other interference from the new modem.

 

Powered the Modem back on and played a Vox stored track while it booted up then switched to a steam of the same track via UPnP.  It could be that it improved slightly but I cant be certain and I don't even know that if that was the case why on earth rebooting a modem when the connection seemed fine would change anything. Perception that bass went up slightly but cant be certain it mild if anything. I will do some more side by side tests and plug back in the old virgin modem to check the difference between the two again. Might need to wait until weekend but that's OK.

 

Different modem could be a plan I will get in touch with the ISP, the guy who installed said it was an "Adtran area" but I don't see why another modem wouldn't work they would just need to activate it.

 

who knows where the signals are bouncing from and what could be different to the Virgin Network. I ran the test @seeteeyou suggested over wifi from MacBook just now and the result are attached but I couldn't tell you what is a good result or not. Latency 18ms, jitter 88.4 I can run the same test on the virgin cable when I plug it back in. If packets are arriving with error due to a break in the fibre could it cause packet resend if that makes sense? maybe the tests should be hard wired into the switch to test and then the router torun the latency test again?

 

Settling in is also an option, existing system has a audio level reclocking switch and the whole downstream from the ISP has been worked on a lot and its been great, the switch to provider was obvious not subtle, even my wife tells me she thinks its different.

 

Thanks again for your comments

Dan

Screenshot 2021-07-29 at 20.47.26.png

Screenshot 2021-07-29 at 20.47.53.png

Screenshot 2021-07-29 at 10.16.10.png

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How long ago was your  connection initiated? Sometimes speed goes up/latency goes down once your connection is updated everywhere.

 

Not sure I get what the Mac is doing, is that just controlling the streaming amp? Assuming it is used to stream music coming in via WIFI going out over USB that may be your battlezone.

 

Wifi does not work for me, for best SQ wired does the trick. Via Wifi I get 200+ Mbps and  a ping of 7 ms, which is pretty good, SQ over wifi is a lot less than via ethernet, or fiber.

 

Connect your mac to your switch with a piece of UTP and try again, if there is a large difference  you may be looking at the position of your WIFI AP....20cm to the left or right might be enough...

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch on LPS, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Master, Corsair AX1200i, 16Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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@MarcelNL the amp has a built in streamer the Mac is more for local files and internet radio. It’s the UPnP streaming via the switch direct to the amp that’s changed. The test in the graphs above was run over wifi though.
 

the line was activated on Wednesday Morning.

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