A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

4 minutes ago, Confused said:

Are the LED’s on your REF10 too bright for you?

 

The Ref10 isn't that bad. They are the dimmest of all my devices. 

[sig8]

Just put together a new server with i9-10900 CPU and ASUS Republic of Gamers Strix Z490-E Gaming LGA 1200 ATX board. Sounding better than i9-9900k ASUS Prime Z390-A LGA 1151 ATX right out of the box. Same power supply and RAM modules. Would let it burn for few days and do A-B one more time to be sure.

[internethandle]

I've use the Aptitlig blocks for a number of years now to get mostly various power-related components (conditioners etc.) off the carpeted floor (along with some Herbie's Audio Lab Superior Decoupling Spikes) in my apartment. They work great and definitely bring an audible improvement! You've prompted me to get some of the smaller ones to put under my SR4T and tx-USBUltra SE, I think, I keep forgetting to do that. Right now they're just on Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfeet (which are just on top of a desk). Anyway, one of the better budget tweaks in audio, and can lead to Daiza et. al upgrades later on for those that want to first wade into vibration control.

 

You've also reminded me I've been meaning to grab a Cardas Clear Power for my SR4T, too. Right now it's just got an older Harmonic Technology cord on it, which is nice, but not on the level of the Clear. They're great cords, at least in my system. Currently have a Beyond Clear feeding a PS Audio conditioner and a Clear feeding a headphone amp at the moment to great effect.

 

[austinpop]

12 minutes ago, Confused said:

Are the LED’s on your REF10 too bright for you?

Yes, but I’ve dimmed all my LEDs with these stickers:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WT7PYO

[MikeyFresh]

16 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Yes, but I’ve dimmed all my LEDs with these stickers:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WT7PYO

 

So have I, they work very well, and have rid me of that bright LED annoyance.

[sandyk]

44 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I've always hated blue LEDs, and the intense ones may be a health hazard:

http://texyt.com/bright+blue+leds+annoyance+health+risks

 Actually, that article isn't completely correct. The original Blue LEDS were very pale,  a lighter almost "Sky blue",  and needed a considerably higher operating current than the modern Blue LEDs. You could still clearly see their internal structure when illuminated.

Many of those earlier Blue LEDs ,for some reason,  even had the leads reversed where the longer lead wasn't the +VE side.

[Exocer]

4 hours ago, sig8 said:

Just put together a new server with i9-10900 CPU and ASUS Republic of Gamers Strix Z490-E Gaming LGA 1200 ATX board. Sounding better than i9-9900k ASUS Prime Z390-A LGA 1151 ATX right out of the box. Same power supply and RAM modules. Would let it burn for few days and do A-B one more time to be sure.

 

Great information.

 

Mind if I ask a few more questions about your build? If not:

 

1. What OS do you have deployed?

2. What playback software are you using?

3. Do you upsample or play at native sample rates?

 

Thanks!

[shahed99]

23 hours ago, flkin said:

Ah how interesting! I got there with the Townshend Podiums eventually after switching to tinned copper. It wasn’t an immediate step up for me but took some rearrangement of cables to get there. 
 

Right now I’m finding a naturalness and correctness to the sound that I haven’t heard before with the tinned copper loom. But one thing unusual I noticed is the daily variations of sound seems to be more than before. One day, it’s spot on sound and another day bass gets fatter or soundstage is smaller. I suppose it’s to do with breaking in as it’s happening less over time. 
 

You say you’ve switched over to $2.5k wires, is this still tinned copper?

 

I replaced the $2.5k worth of interconnect and speaker cables with western electric ones. The previous ones weren't tinned copper. Also, I think the duelund hook up wire takes a while to break-in.

[shahed99]

21 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Brilliant 😂 

 

I came very close to buying the Townsend but went with the Gaia footers instead. Big increase in the SQ and focus of the image.

 

Gaia footers are great. Unfortunately, they helped even less than Townshend when it comes to stopping low frequency sound vibration reflecting back to the floor. However, I liked what Gaia did to my system. The sound was more relaxed and organic. At the end, there were two attribute changes I couldn't live with - i) I'd have to increase the volume to get the same level of details. The sound became darker. ii) the sound stage became wider at the expense of center stage becoming hollow. It was like a gape in the middle. Later I read an impression piece of a Stereophile writer who shared the same observation regarding shift of center stage.

 

This goes to show how much system dependent everything is. Townshend platform is a definite step-up from Gaia in my system in all regards. However, it costs about 3X more than Gaia; making Gaia an excellent value. I'll be putting my Gaia footers on sale soon.

 

[HeeBroG]

I use the x4 Townshend Pods under my speakers and subs.

Perhaps not as stable as the platform but much cheaper.

I don't have young kids/pets to worry about so it's not really an issue.

I have a timber floor on concrete.

My REL subs used to vibrate on it's feet at loud volumes as timber floors are never completely flat.

I tried the spikes but it was still no good.

I contacted REL who suggested Blue Tack but this is much better.

I just used a spirit level app on my iPhone to adjust the position. 

 

G

 

[BigAlMc]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

bought 4 of these APTITLIG butcher blocks

 

I have a couple of these and a few of the door stoppers (that I see in your pics) deployed.

 

The door stoppers were worth the 20 quid alone for the look of confusion on my girlfriends face when I explained the heavy Amazon parcel she was complaining about was door stoppers 😂

 

But I deployed these on kit, not PSUs.

 

For example. EtherRegen you hereby qualify for a door stopper. Wallop!

 

LPS-1.2 I don't care if you're suspended in mid air by just the tension in the overpriced cables attached to you.

 

So am I supposed to revisit this and mollycoddle the PSUs as well? 

 

And if Alexey is shipping a couple of his DXP doofers too. Do they qualify for bamboo and door stoppers too?

 

Where does it end....... 🤔

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[BigAlMc]

2 hours ago, shahed99 said:

Townshend platform is a definite step-up from Gaia in my system in all regards.

 

Interesting.

 

The thing I don't like about the Gaia is how they stick to the floor. Moving the speakers is a real chore as these feckers are stuck to the floor. 

 

The upside compared to the Townshend is they make the speakers slightly taller but take up the same footprint as the speakers. The Townshend take up a lot more floorspace. But they also look pretty damn cool 🕶!

 

Interesting point about them sounding better in your system.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[flkin]

2 hours ago, shahed99 said:

 

I replaced the $2.5k worth of interconnect and speaker cables with western electric ones. The previous ones weren't tinned copper. Also, I think the duelund hook up wire takes a while to break-in.

Ah ok, I misread your note. Yes I’m also finding that breaking in the tinned copper wires is taking a long time with constant changes to the sound during the process.  Pretty irritating actually. 

 

40 minutes ago, HeeBroG said:

I use the x4 Townshend Pods under my speakers and subs.

Perhaps not as stable as the platform but much cheaper.

I don't have young kids/pets to worry about so it's not really an issue.

I have a timber floor on concrete.

My REL subs used to vibrate on it's feet at loud volumes as timber floors are never completely flat.

I tried the spikes but it was still no good.

I contacted REL who suggested Blue Tack but this is much better.

I just used a spirit level app on my iPhone to adjust the position. 

 

G

 

Individual pods might be a good alternative to the Podium as it’s really tough to set up. I needed 3 persons to get my Wilson’s on the Podiums and during setting up the Watt part fell on me and injured me a little. 
 

I also experimented and found that the Wilsons sounded better with full feet on spikes sitting on a brass coin. End effect for the speaker is that it is an inch or so higher than before. But to get a spiked Wilson onto the Podiums is no small task. 

[austinpop]

56 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Where does it end....... 🤔

 

I know you were being mostly facetious, but it’s a great question. Trust me, I’ve asked myself that many times, and of late I’m convinced it’s “whenever you decide.” There IS no end, but we all can and should stop or pause and enjoy our systems as they are.

 

Regarding prioritizing where to apply the vibration control, I looked at what the goal was. We’re trying to shunt vibrations from the component to the platform via rigid couplers, and relying on the properties of the platform to dissipate this energy. So I attacked components as follows;

• Those with transformers, as these are generators of vibration. Hence PSUs
• those with clocks as these are very sensitive to vibrations. Hence master clocks and DAC.

That still leaves a bunch of spaghetti in my system unaddressed, so I’m in the same boat as you. Maybe I’ll go further... or not. TBD.

[BigAlMc]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I know you were being mostly facetious, but it’s a great question.

 

Facetious sounds a bit harsh.

 

I was aiming for humour with an element of philosophical.

 

I have two spare door stoppers so plonking one on the LPS isn't an issue. Bamboo is a bit trickier.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Middy]

Ive not had much luck ( no discernable effect) with VB control. Like Austinpop a headphone rig. Speakers yes.. with resonance, spacing from the floor what material they are on ( absorbing/ reflection of sound) decoupling. Moving parts like CD players, record players. Makes sense....

An EE in work found a circuit affected  by SS capacitor bank (free standing) that vibration caused a voltage change.

It led to a major redesign.

A little OT and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I did want to try  VB control in the PSU, 3 spaced blobs of silicon on electrolyte caps sorbthane under transformers  washers under the pcb locations holes o-rings on cables and better management.

Inside control rather than just feet and a hard surface. This is not a safe thing for an amateur and i wonder if it is a safety issue, cost issue for minimal reward from manufacturers. A heavey machined metal case is RFI control more than vibration, high cost per unit.

Ive still got my amazon door stops.... maybe just an ill conceived musing but VB control is interesting and a real world example did bring door stops wood and stone chopping block out the kitchen next ro my bedroom ...

Please delete if too OT @austinpop but made me think what do the guys who make thier own linear PSUs do themselves and net benefits... 

 

Saftey first ams always..

 

[lmitche]

5 hours ago, flkin said:

Ah ok, I misread your note. Yes I’m also finding that breaking in the tinned copper wires is taking a long time with constant changes to the sound during the process.  Pretty irritating actually. 

 

Individual pods might be a good alternative to the Podium as it’s really tough to set up. I needed 3 persons to get my Wilson’s on the Podiums and during setting up the Watt part fell on me and injured me a little. 
 

I also experimented and found that the Wilsons sounded better with full feet on spikes sitting on a brass coin. End effect for the speaker is that it is an inch or so higher than before. But to get a spiked Wilson onto the Podiums is no small task. 

My Watt Puppies are practically nailed to the floor on spikes. At close to 200 lbs a speaker, moving them is an adventure in back pain.

[lmitche]

It occurred to me that some of you may have a list of ongoing projects to improve SQ. Below is my list. One is done, others have a ways to go, and at least two have yet to start. This list is subject to change.

 

I am open to feedback and further ideas. Hence this post. I am not going to call out specific part numbers as doing so often creates a rush on supplier inventory creating shortages.

------------
Project goal: There are a lot of great online posts about which SFPs sound best. Which sound best here?

 

Results: Here is my ranking from best sounding to worse:

1) Finisar 10GB/s LR LW 1310nm SFP+ Transceivers Single Mode
2) Finisar 10Gb/s LR LW 1310nm SFP+ Transceivers Single Mode (Wide Temp)
3) Fs.com - Intel E10GSFPLR Compatible 1000BASE-LX and 10GBASE-LR SFP+ 1310nm Transceivers Single Mode

 

Next steps: Done for now
------------
Project goal: Find a replacement for the unobtainable Apacer DDR4 2666mhz UDIMMs that matches or exceeds Apacer SQ. Best case would be another Samsung B-die memory module or whatever variant of Samsung memory chips that replaced B-die.

 

Questions: Is faster memory better? What if CPU base speed equals RAM speed? 3200mhz or 3600mhz? Note: Doing this rules out Hqplayer advanced up-sampling modes which need single core clock speeds approaching 5ghz. This approach is likely best for native playback builds only.

 

Next steps: Candidate 8 gb memory modules have been found, and delivered. Early SQ tests have  yielded a significant improvement in SQ, but why? See Roon project below.
----------
Project goal: Can powering and controlling an active cooling solution from a separate power supply instead of the motherboard minimize SQ impact?

 

Partial results: Noctua speed control with a 140mm Noctua fan and heatsink seems to have no impact on SQ. Fan speed can be adjusted for mechanical silence. Any mechanical vibration does not appear to impact SQ. Active cooling with a fan does lower operating temperature from 60 to 42C.

 

Next steps:

1) More SQ testing needs to be done on the air only solution.
2) Test active AIO pump and fan combos with high power Intel based Hqplayer solution. Need to find a fan and pump combo where it is possible to control the pump speed as well as fan speed from one speed control. Are one, two or three fans best? Is pump vibration a factor in SQ?
------------
Project goal: Can the Monoprice fiber USB 3.0 extension device end be powered directly creating a galvanically isolated solution?

 

Partial results: A dead cable was dissected. Circuit board markings indicate that the copper cable carries 12 volt boosted power from the host end of the cable.

 

Next steps:
1) Dissect a working cable, disconnect the power from the host end and replace with a local power source and verify operation.
2) Verify operation of the Monoprice cable with the 4 3.2 Gen 2 ports onboard the Ryzen 3XXX processors.
3) Poke a hole in the remote end case for an external power source.
------------
Project goal: Explore possibility of changing the host environment variables to accommodate recent changes to Roon and thereby improving SQ. Recently there has been much discussion of this in the Taiko Audio Extreme world.

 

Questions: A comparison of various Roon versions running on ram rooted AL shows a growing memory footprint over time. Current servers are configured with 8gb of RAM. Does 16gb of ram lead to improved SQ? Are other improvements possible?

 

Partial results: Total VM footprint of Roon 1.71 measures close to 8gb with a 2.5 gb working set. With a ram based root drive this may be causing unnecessary IO.

 

Next steps: First step, to control the variables as best as possible 4 2666mhz 4ghz Apacer memory sticks will be tested vs. two 4ghz Apacers sticks to understand memory size SQ impact.
------------

Upcoming:

Project goal: Test SQ with a high quality SMPS ATX. With all the recent improvements is an LPS still worth the bother? - Not started
Project goal: Test SQ of the new 300 watt Hdplex LPS - Not started

[Pablooo]

On 10/7/2019 at 7:12 PM, Marcin_gps said:

Hi Guys, 

 

Those of you who are looking at Apacer industrial ECC RAM, make sure to order the brand new model with Samsung IC:

D31.23185S.001  DDR4 4GB ECC UDIMM 2666 CL19 WT

 

It's a clear step up from the previously available model. 

 

BTW - I'm in the process of setting up JPLAY / JCAT Club here at AS where I'll be talking about new exciting products. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin 

I would like to build a new server with AMD Ryzen 7 3700X or Ryzen 9 3900X on a Gigabyte Aorus B550 Master. Has anyone experienced any compatibility problems with this particular Apacer memory?

[dminches]

1 hour ago, Pablooo said:

I would like to build a new server with AMD Ryzen 7 3700X or Ryzen 9 3900X on a Gigabyte Aorus B550 Master. Has anyone experienced any compatibility problems with this particular Apacer memory?

 

I am using that memory with the Ryzen 7 3700x but with an Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero motherboard.  That combination works fine..

 

[sig8]

11 hours ago, Exocer said:

 

Great information.

 

Mind if I ask a few more questions about your build? If not:

 

1. What OS do you have deployed?

2. What playback software are you using?

3. Do you upsample or play at native sample rates?

 

Thanks!

1. I am using Audiolinux.

2. HQ Player.

3. PCM upsampled to 352,800/384,000, DSD to DSD512

 

These things have been constant for last couple of years.

[kennyb123]

5 hours ago, lmitche said:

Project goal: There are a lot of great online posts about which SFPs sound best. Which sound best here?

 

Results: Here is my ranking from best sounding to worse:

1) Finisar 10GB/s LR LW 1310nm SFP+ Transceivers Single Mode
2) Finisar 10Gb/s LR LW 1310nm SFP+ Transceivers Single Mode (Wide Temp)
3) Fs.com - Intel E10GSFPLR Compatible 1000BASE-LX and 10GBASE-LR SFP+ 1310nm Transceivers Single Mode

 

Next steps: Done for now
------------

Great project status report!

 

Would you remind me again of the devices into which you are plugging those SFPs?  
 

You indicated that the transceivers you tried are all 10GB/s SFP+.  I missed why you went with SFP+ instead of gigabit SFP.  

[Exocer]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:11 PM, Exocer said:

 

I also want to note that the BS-GS2016(p) with stock amps sounds good with the Etherregen downstream.

 

Although I am curious how the combination of a BS-GS2008 and BS-GS2016 would work together...

 

On another note, I forgot I had an AQ Cinnamon laying around from the time I tried using it in my less resolving system. So, I have:

 

1. AQ Cinnamon

2. CableMatters Cat 8

3. Monoprice Cat 8

 

I will do some listening tests with each of them, going from Etherregen to server, for the person who inquired.

 

It is too early to tell how the Cinnamon will perform since I only used it for several hours at this point so I will wait for break-in prior to providing impressions. EDIT: I can also throw in Ugreen CAT 7 for comparison as I bought these to try POE to DC (more on that later).

 

Also, Parts-connexxion recently had a 50% off deal on Duelund caps so naturally I grabbed a pair of the .22uFs to replace the Audiocap Theta's I've meant to replace for years... (In my DIY speakers) And holy cow, the delicacy, smoothness and detail improvements were much more than what I was expecting, particularly in the high frequencies. I now wonder if my old caps were far off spec.

 

 

@mikicasellas 

So i've had the Cinnamon sending data non-stop for the last few days. 

 

The CableMatters Cat8 > AQ Cinnamon in my system.

 

More dynamics, more dimensional sound, more exciting. The difference isn't night and day but when I listen to the Cinnamon I do miss the previous sound. It could be synergy or that i've become accustomed to the CM 8 sound. If I had to choose a cable I would stick with long-term, the CM 8 would be my choice. I'll try breaking in the AQ Cinnamon in a less audio-focused area of my network and try another test in a few weeks.

 

I do not have the Ghent JSSG360 Ethernet cable for comparison unfortunately.

 

Cheers

[mikicasellas]

3 minutes ago, Exocer said:

@mikicasellas 

So i've had the Cinnamon sending data non-stop for the last few days. 

 

The CableMatters Cat8 > AQ Cinnamon in my system.

 

More dynamics, more dimensional sound, more exciting. The difference isn't night and day but when I listen to the Cinnamon I do miss the previous sound. It could be synergy or that i've become accustomed to the CM 8 sound. If I had to choose a cable I would stick with long-term, the CM 8 would be my choice. I'll try breaking in the AQ Cinnamon in a less audio-focused area of my network and try another test in a few weeks.

 

I do not have the Ghent JSSG360 Ethernet cable for comparison unfortunately.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks !!

 

Yes CM 8 wins over the AQ Cinnamon in my system too

 

I guess no one around here is using Ghent JSSG360

[flkin]

On 6/30/2020 at 9:41 PM, flkin said:

 

I have a particularly good recording of the ubiquitous Jazz at the Pawnshop by Naxos and at the beginning of the “High Life” track around the 25 seconds mark, I’m able to clearly hear an order and the bartender’s reply for bottled water. This is with the entire tinned copper loom so it shows that details are resolved just fine. For a bit of fun, can anyone say which brand of water it is? 😄

 

For the question I asked a few days ago above, I believe the drink in the track is “Evian”. I hear it being ordered, bartender confirming it and then once more perhaps by the customer. 😄