A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[lwr]

I have been looking to buy a Buffalo GS-BS2016 but they are sold out everywhere I’ve checked.  Does anyone know where a couple of them can be found- new or used?

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, lwr said:

I have been looking to buy a Buffalo GS-BS2016 but they are sold out everywhere I’ve checked.  Does anyone know where a couple of them can be found- new or used?

 

PriceBlaze.com should have new stock in two weeks at $300 per switch. 

[RickyV]

6 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Those extra caps are on the SMPS though, so when removing it for the external LPSU there should be no difference physically.

 

Now I am confused. Smps do not need buffer caps. LPSU need buffer caps before regulation but after regulation not so much. In general but the not needed ones will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

The capacitor bank in the Melco switch is not needed but will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

 

[sukyung]

3 hours ago, lwr said:

I have been looking to buy a Buffalo GS-BS2016 but they are sold out everywhere I’ve checked.  Does anyone know where a couple of them can be found- new or used?

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/BUFFALO-レイヤー2-スマートスイッチ-16ポート-BS-GS2016/dp/B00NGON6HQ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=BS-GS2016&qid=1588835461&sr=8-1

[Cooler]

Anyone compared cisco 2960G vs Buffalo GS-BS2016?

[bodiebill]

11 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Today, after a month of hesitation, I managed to power my Cisco 2960G-8 switch with a 12V LPSU, forgoing the stock SMPS.

 

Does anyone happen to know whether this Cisco switch would also accept DC voltages higher than 12V directly to the main board?

[RickyV]

12 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Does anyone happen to know whether this Cisco switch would also accept DC voltages higher than 12V directly to the main board?

 

I think nobody knows that for sure. I wouldn't try that unless you are willing to take the risk of killing it.

[bodiebill]

33 minutes ago, RickyV said:

I think nobody knows that for sure. I wouldn't try that unless you are willing to take the risk of killing it.

 

Good advice, I will stick with 12VDC.

[sunny_time_99]

6 hours ago, RickyV said:

Now I am confused. Smps do not need buffer caps. LPSU need buffer caps before regulation but after regulation not so much. In general but the not needed ones will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

The capacitor bank in the Melco switch is not needed but will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

 

Hello everybody, there is a big difference between theory and practice. Theoretically, smps should not be operated with additional output capacitors - but if you do that, you will notice sound improvements depending on the capacitor you use. the same applies to linear power supplies. Yes: in front of the regulator, you are welcome to use big and expensive capacitors - but it is a fairy tale that there is no noticeable increase in capacity behind the regulator. it is always best to make these experiences yourself and not to move in theoretical papers. All of the sound enhancements that I have achieved with my small craft group in the past 5 years came from unconventional approaches. Strangely, if you do it the way you always did, you get the same result, but not a better one.

 

happy listening

Sunny

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, sunny_time_99 said:

Hello everybody, there is a big difference between theory and practice. Theoretically, smps should not be operated with additional output capacitors - but if you do that, you will notice sound improvements depending on the capacitor you use. the same applies to linear power supplies. Yes: in front of the regulator, you are welcome to use big and expensive capacitors - but it is a fairy tale that there is no noticeable increase in capacity behind the regulator. it is always best to make these experiences yourself and not to move in theoretical papers. All of the sound enhancements that I have achieved with my small craft group in the past 5 years came from unconventional approaches. Strangely, if you do it the way you always did, you get the same result, but not a better one.

 

happy listening

Sunny

 

Hi Sunny, 

I remember the pcb pictures you posted here in this thread with the ideal rectifier. I noticed then too that there is room for capacitors after regulation. I am wondering if that's beneficial in digital and analog or just digital? I just started to experiment with capacitor after smps, see my picture of buffalo switch. What caps do you use? Low esr ones I presume?

 

Thanks about the ideal rectifier idea, i kept searching for them in ready made pcb form and found these. 

https://evotronix.eu/main/

 

[RickyV]

@sunny_time_99 For further electronics DIY posts we should probably take it to PM.

👍

[Johnseye]

9 hours ago, RickyV said:

Now I am confused. Smps do not need buffer caps. LPSU need buffer caps before regulation but after regulation not so much. In general but the not needed ones will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

The capacitor bank in the Melco switch is not needed but will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

 

 

This is what @Nenon said about the module in the picture with the extra caps:

 

"The Melco comes with an external SMPS. Part of the "voicing" of the Melco was adding a bank of extra capacitors to smoothen the noise of the SMPSS it comes with."

 

Since I didn't see any extra caps on the picture of the Melco board itself, and this statement was above the picture of the SMPS module, I assume the extra caps are on the SMPS module.  My understanding then is that the switch boards are identical with the exception of the firmware.

[Gavin1977]

On 5/6/2020 at 7:35 PM, ASRMichael said:

Sad day....Clumsy is an understatement! Putting last touches to my new build & then this happened!!    
 

Snapped a capacitor off my Pink Faun Ultra USB card! 😢😢😢😢

 

The joys of DIY! NOT! 

 

This method might work for you, or hot air soldering gun

 

https://github.com/iancanada/DocumentDownload/blob/master/PowerSupply/ADM715X/SMDtutorial.md

[matthias]

On 5/3/2020 at 5:14 PM, Exocer said:

Then perhaps I will consider replacing the Elfidelity card with something higher end, ala Pink Faun, JCAT Femto USB etc. 

 

Looking forward to your impressions.

 

A very good card which is less expensive than the "audiophile" ones, is the Sonnet with ASM3142 chipset:

 

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro-usbc-pcie.html

 

Matt

[matthias]

8 hours ago, matthias said:

A very good card which is less expensive than the "audiophile" ones, is the Sonnet with ASM3142 chipset:

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro-usbc-pcie.html

 

Just be sure to get the latest card. Cards shipped before April 2020 use ASM1142 chipset. Some vendors may have the old one in stock.

 

Matt

[Exocer]

11 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Just be sure to get the latest card. Cards shipped before April 2020 use ASM1142 chipset. Some vendors may have the old one in stock.

 

Matt

 

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

In other news, my LPS 1.2 just arrived and I haven't decided where to use it yet.

 

My network is as follows:

 

Arris SB8200 > Ubiquiti EdgeRouter SFP > Etherregen (A-Side) > Music server (A-Side).

 

Linksys EA7500 bridged-mode for wireless control and other wireless gadget I'd like to keep away from the server.

 

Will need to read up on current requirements for each of the above devices but I'm thinking the largest improvement will be had powering the Etherregen or Elfidelity card.

[matthias]

16 minutes ago, Exocer said:

In other news, my LPS 1.2 just arrived and I haven't decided where to use it yet.

My network is as follows:

Arris SB8200 > Ubiquiti EdgeRouter SFP > Etherregen (A-Side) > Music server (A-Side).

Linksys EA7500 bridged-mode for wireless control and other wireless gadget I'd like to keep away from the server.

Will need to read up on current requirements for each of the above devices but I'm thinking the largest improvement will be had powering the Etherregen.

 

There are reports from WBF that the largest improvement is by providing the better power supply for the Arris SB8200 but I am not sure if the LPS 1.2 has enough "juice" for it.

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

9 hours ago, matthias said:

A very good card which is less expensive than the "audiophile" ones, is the Sonnet with ASM3142 chipset:

 

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro-usbc-pcie.html

 

It does not look like this card can receive external power, correct?

In my experience 80% of the SQ improvement of audiophile usb cards comes from good external linear power.

[matthias]

13 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

It does not look like this card can receive external power, correct?

In my experience 80% of the SQ improvement of audiophile usb cards comes from good external linear power.

 

Correct, but the price of this card is about 10% of audiophile cards with the same chipset.

Depending on your set-up you can use it with this device

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo-express-sel-tb3/overview.html

and power the Echo Express SEL with a HQ 12V/5A LPS.

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

5 minutes ago, matthias said:

Correct, but the price of this card is about 10% of audiophile cards with the same chipset.

Depending on your set-up you can use it with this device

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo-express-sel-tb3/overview.html

and power the Echo Express SEL with a HQ 12V/5A LPS.

 

Matt

 

Thanks Matt. In that scenario the total price would come close to that of an audiophile card.

 

The Elfidelity card still seems an interesting option: also 10% of the cost of the audiophile cards, external 5V power and no interaction with the PCIe slot (so no riser card needed in my case). All subject to the perceived SQ improvement of course. And I must admit I have not done comparisons other than to the motherboard's stock usb output. 

[matthias]

2 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

In that scenario the total price would come close to that of an audiophile card.

 

The Echo Express SEL plus Sonnet USB card is about 300USD.

The new JCAT XE is 800EUR.

I do not know if the Pink Faun USB card uses the ASM3142 chipset as well.

In all cases you can add the components of a MPAUDIO PS for example with about 250EUR.

 

Matt

[matthias]

32 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

The Elfidelity card still seems an interesting option: also 10% of the cost of the audiophile cards

 

AFAIK, the Elfidelity card provides only cleaning, removing of noise, injecting of external 5V and needs USB input.

Correct?

So it is barely comparable with an (audiophile) USB card which has its own USB host controller.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

AFAIK, the Elfidelity card provides only cleaning, removing of noise, injecting of external 5V and needs USB input.

Correct?

So it is barely comparable with an (audiophile) USB card which has its own USB host controller.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I think that is correct.

 

The effect of the cards is DAC dependant and in my setup the Elfidelity apparently already comes a long way by just removing noise (and not adding significant pollution itself thanks to a good external LPS). This may be because the ISO Regen and Denafrips Terminator together effectively deal with the jitter part.

 

So I am curious to hear what an expensive card would add to this, but just have not tried yet...

 

@matthias Did you (or anyone else) compare the Sonnet USB card with an audiophile usb card?

[bodiebill]

USB PCIe cards based on ASM3142 are available on AliExpress around $17,

These can be powered with a SATA power connector, so does this mean they could be powered externally? Or does the power for the card itself come from the PCIe connection?

[lmitche]

On 5/7/2020 at 4:30 AM, bodiebill said:

 

Good advice, I will stick with 12VDC.

You may want to try a lower voltage like 5 volts. Many of these switches use commodity 12 volts power supplies and then drop the voltage to 3.3 or 5 volts for use internally. I did this recently with a Linksys RE9000 labelled for 12 volts. It works fine and sounds better fed at 5 volt with a two step two amp lt3045 dc to dc regulator.