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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

The Computer Audiophile

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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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2 hours ago, Dev said:

 

WS C621E Sage is EEB Form Factor - 12 inch x 13 inch

 

For comparison:

ATX Form Factor - 12.0 inch x 9.29 inch

Extended ATX Form Factor - 12 inch x 10.9 inch

 

Also Sage is a dual socket mobo. If you populate both, you need to figure out the cooling and routing heat pipes on the H5 case.

 

 

Planning to use both heatsinks, one for each CPU. 

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6 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

Planning to use both heatsinks, one for each CPU. 

 

Why is liquid cooling shunned upon if the power supplies are external to the case?  Is the vibration of the liquid and radiator fans problematic?

 


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

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12 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

 

Yes, that's correct. I am pretty sure it would fit, although I haven't tried it yet. 

 

10 hours ago, Dev said:

 

WS C621E Sage is EEB Form Factor - 12 inch x 13 inch

 

For comparison:

ATX Form Factor - 12.0 inch x 9.29 inch

Extended ATX Form Factor - 12 inch x 10.9 inch

 

Also Sage is a dual socket mobo. If you populate both, you need to figure out the cooling and routing heat pipes on the H5 case.

 

 

I messaged with Larry at HDPlex last night.  His feedback was not encouraging.

 

"The socket type is not supported", meaning to me that it won't work with the heatsinks out of the box.  There may be some DIY necessary.

 

I asked him if the board would even fit in the case and here is his response:

 

"Well, judging from its EEB size  305 cm x 330 cm, it will fit inside H5.

However, there will be no space left on the front or on the side to install PSU or HDD rack.

I am also not sure if the mounting hole for ATX motherboard will match this EEB motherboard."

 

ATX and EEB share 5 mounting holes but one corner of the board will not be screwed in.  It will mount in the H5 based on this, which is very positive.

 

Here's a video showing ATX vs EEB differences.

 

 


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

I messaged with Larry at HDPlex last night.  His feedback was not encouraging.

 

"The socket type is not supported", meaning to me that it won't work with the heatsinks out of the box.  There may be some DIY necessary.

 

I asked him if the board would even fit in the case and here is his response:

 

"Well, judging from its EEB size  305 cm x 330 cm, it will fit inside H5.

However, there will be no space left on the front or on the side to install PSU or HDD rack.

I am also not sure if the mounting hole for ATX motherboard will match this EEB motherboard."

 

ATX and EEB share 5 mounting holes but one corner of the board will not be screwed in.  It will mount in the H5 based on this, which is very positive.

 

I think the basic question is even if it fits and you are able to somehow (DIY) mount the heat sink/pipes (assuming passive cooling), would the chassis be even capable to dissipating heat appropriately for 2x85W CPUs ?

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36 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

I think the basic question is even if it fits and you are able to somehow (DIY) mount the heat sink/pipes (assuming passive cooling), would the chassis be even capable to dissipating heat appropriately for 2x85W CPUs ?

 

Larry stated it should fit.  I asked him further questions about the alignment within the case and shared the video for him.  Here is his response:

"The video suggests EEB shares the mounting holes with ATX as well as the IO shield position and PCIE slot.

You would only need to add 3-4 mounting holes for the front row of the EEB board due to it is longer."

 

Whether the case can dissipate the heat I don't know.  How does the Extreme case dissipate the heat effectively with pipes?  The H5 heat pipes could certainly be improved upon.


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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Here's a different passive heatsink option "supposedly" rated up to 205w.

 

https://www.dynatron.co/product-page/b6

 

Maybe some pipes can be attached to it as well to drain heat to the case.  Either way I think this is a path I'm going to start heading down.


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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22 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Here's a different passive heatsink option "supposedly" rated up to 205w.

 

https://www.dynatron.co/product-page/b6

 

Maybe some pipes can be attached to it as well to drain heat to the case.  Either way I think this is a path I'm going to start heading down.

 

These heatsinks are typically used in conjunction with a blower fan - intake or outtake. In a 1U chassis which the B6 heatsink is targeted, they typically will use couple of 40mm fans. Without the fan, in a shallow chassis like H5, the heat will be massively trapped. Attaching heat pipes to the heatsink and chassis is a solution to dissipate it but to cool 2x85w CPU, you need large surface area as well. I would think, looking at the pictures, the Extreme is quiet larger and more metal than the H5 case.

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57 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

These heatsinks are typically used in conjunction with a blower fan - intake or outtake. In a 1U chassis which the B6 heatsink is targeted, they typically will use couple of 80mm fan. Without the fan, in a shallow chassis like H5, the heat will be massively trapped. Attaching heat pipes to the heatsink and chassis is a solution to dissipate it but to cool 2x85w CPU, you need large surface area as well. I would think, looking at the pictures, the Extreme is quiet larger and more metal than the H5 case.

 

Well crap.  Time to find another solution.

 


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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Why are fans or fan cooling a bad idea if the power supply is isolated? Does it affect the sound or is the ambient noise it creates?

 

 


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

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41 minutes ago, dminches said:

Why are fans or fan cooling a bad idea if the power supply is isolated? Does it affect the sound or is the ambient noise it creates?

 

 

 

Fans create vibrations and add other noise.  Not ideal if it can be avoided.  An external fan blowing into the chassis with its top exposed is a solution, but not ideal.


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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46 minutes ago, dminches said:

Why are fans or fan cooling a bad idea if the power supply is isolated? Does it affect the sound or is the ambient noise it creates?

 

 

Fans make both vibration and ambient noise, which can often be tolerable, but worse make electrical noise even with inline fan filters.


nuckleheadaudio.com

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So the big question is whether the H5 can cool these dual procs successfully and in my case with HQPlayer DSD upsampling.  I don't even know whether the SGM Extreme can do this.  If the H5 can't then I need to either consider the Xeon build with a fan or a fanless build with a Ryzen proc.


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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And here is Emile's comments on HQPlayer with the Extreme...

 

"We have tested HQPlayer version 3.x with the Extreme, DSD upsampling using the most taxing filter back then, polysinc-xtr (non -2s), it can run on 1 CPU up to DSD256, for DSD512 you need both CPUs, at which point it draws about 330 watts from the wall. The EC modulators in HPlayer 4 use even more resources, this is really beyond reasonable assuming using a linear powered server. HQPlayer 4 does do better with higher individual core clock speeds and large caches, the current AMD offerings which we are also testing can do a better job here (at least for value), though not for bit perfect playback as there is some inconsistency between CPUs and even between cores on the same CPU, which we may be able to solve though. The bottom line is we have not given up on HQPlayer."

 


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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Interesting, I've not used CUDA GPU support in HQPlayer for a while now as it has a negative effect on SQ, even when the GPU is mildly (<20%) loaded.  Not a mild effect either with 1080 GTX btw. Anyone else noticed similar?

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45 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Interesting, I've not used CUDA GPU support in HQPlayer for a while now as it has a negative effect on SQ, even when the GPU is mildly (<20%) loaded.  Not a mild effect either with 1080 GTX btw. Anyone else noticed similar?

 

Are you connected direct or through NAA?  I use the NAA and have not experienced that - although I have not tried all filters and modulators with / without CUDA offload.

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37 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Are you connected direct or through NAA?  I use the NAA and have not experienced that - although I have not tried all filters and modulators with / without CUDA offload.

 

NAA over Fibre (opticalModule + ER atm).  For me at least I hear a more relaxed sound, less "hash", wider soundstage, better depth placement etc.  

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On 3/8/2020 at 6:07 AM, matthias said:


Before fully giving up on the ER, I decided to give these new SFP transceivers that Emile liked a try and I believe I have found them. This is the link that Emile provided and neither of us were sure these were the actual transceivers he likes because these are quite a bit less expensive at only $30 each.  

https://planetechusa.com/product/mgb-tlx-mini-gbic-lx-module-20km/
 

 

On 3/8/2020 at 9:32 AM, guiltyboxswapper said:

@matthias I did see this posted, infact, I brought the planet SFPs as soon as Emile mentioned them.  

 

I suspected with the tiny chassis's the oR and oM came with that they too would benefit from lower EMI footprint SFPs.  They did btw, as mentioned certainly sound less mechanical.  I should have posted about that, but apologies writing isn't my forte.

 

 

Any reason you guys went with single mode fiber instead of multi mode?

Are you both still using that gbic linked with good effect?

 

thanks


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Modified Buffalo switch-> SOtM sNH-10G-> Custom Audiolinux server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> EtherRegen-> AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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Anyone....

for the benefit of a Fibre newbie/numpty.

If I wanted to ‘dip my toes’ into fibre world, and purchased a Sonore Om, with the Planet Gbic’s mentioned, would a 1 metre single mode LC cable be suitable and within ‘spec’ to run into an EtheRegen? I am somewhat nervous of using cable designed for long distance operation ( with or without attenuators)

thanks for any guidance.

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53 minutes ago, Frojo said:

Anyone....

for the benefit of a Fibre newbie/numpty.

If I wanted to ‘dip my toes’ into fibre world, and purchased a Sonore Om, with the Planet Gbic’s mentioned, would a 1 metre single mode LC cable be suitable and within ‘spec’ to run into an EtheRegen? I am somewhat nervous of using cable designed for long distance operation ( with or without attenuators)

thanks for any guidance.


For several years, I have use fiber cable of varying lengths (1 to 15 meters) without any issues. 
 

All of my fiber cables are 10Gb capable from Fibertronics


Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, Roon, HQP) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > opticalRendu (HQP NAA) > Holo Cyan (DSD version) > Nord One UP NC500MB mono blocks > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client

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9 hours ago, ericuco said:


For several years, I have use fiber cable of varying lengths (1 to 15 meters) without any issues. 
 

All of my fiber cables are 10Gb capable from Fibertronics

 

Thanks ericuco, your link is to/ for multimode fibre not single mode....?

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6 hours ago, Frojo said:

 

Thanks ericuco, your link is to/ for multimode fibre not single mode....?


Correct, they also have single mode cables if that is what you want.


Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, Roon, HQP) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > opticalRendu (HQP NAA) > Holo Cyan (DSD version) > Nord One UP NC500MB mono blocks > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client

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20 hours ago, Frojo said:

Anyone....

for the benefit of a Fibre newbie/numpty.

If I wanted to ‘dip my toes’ into fibre world, and purchased a Sonore Om, with the Planet Gbic’s mentioned, would a 1 metre single mode LC cable be suitable and within ‘spec’ to run into an EtheRegen? I am somewhat nervous of using cable designed for long distance operation ( with or without attenuators)

thanks for any guidance.


You could always buy a longer cable and keep it coiled.  Coiling a fiber cable actually causes attenuation.  Alternatively buy a pair of attenuators as they are cheap.  5 dB might be a good place to start.


Digital:  Innuos Zenith Std Mk2 > Shunyata Sigma USB > Chord Hugo M-Scaler > Wireworld Gold Startlight > OPTO DX > Shunyata Alpha S/PDIF > Chord Hugo TT2 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

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2 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:


You could always buy a longer cable and keep it coiled.  Coiling a fiber cable actually causes attenuation.  Alternatively buy a pair of attenuators as they are cheap.  5 dB might be a good place to start.

Thanks for your answer, do I assume that a 1metre single mode cable would not be suitable/ recommended? 
 

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