A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[rickca]

10 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I will get there, but right now, the SQ out of my server is just so darn good, my motivation isn't that strong.

I bet even Emile can't give definitive technical explanations for all his design/component decisions on the Taiko Extreme.  He has done a lot of experimentation, research and listening.  That seems to be the most productive approach for making progress, as you have proven to yourself.

 

Those who demand objective measurements or technical rationale for why some things sound better will continue to insist that we're delusional.  I'm fine with that.

 

 

 

 

[soares]

9 minutes ago, rickca said:

Those who demand objective measurements or technical rationale for why some things sound better will continue to insist that we're delusional.  I'm fine with that.

Same here! 😀

[taipan254]

Assuming I pulled the right diagram (see attached), it looks like the USB ports on the SGM extreme motherboard Emile uses also pulls from the chipset and is not cpu direct. 

[vhs]

7 hours ago, taipan254 said:

Assuming I pulled the right diagram (see attached), it looks like the USB ports on the SGM extreme motherboard Emile uses also pulls from the chipset and is not cpu direct. 

Yes.....Apparently 

[Iving]

10 hours ago, taipan254 said:

Assuming I pulled the right diagram (see attached), it looks like the USB ports on the SGM extreme motherboard Emile uses also pulls from the chipset and is not cpu direct. 

 

Nice resource of CPU-direct PCIe tho' ...

also U.2 I notice ...

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3307189/intels-905p-optane-15tb.html

Plenty of (fanless) bespoke scope for DIYers!!

[vhs]

3 hours ago, Iving said:

 

Nice resource of CPU-direct PCIe tho' ...

also U.2 I notice ...

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3307189/intels-905p-optane-15tb.html

Plenty of (fanless) bespoke scope for DIYers!!

 

PCIe interface is always beneficial. I am using a regular SATA PCIe Card (Marvell 9235) for HDD (music files storage) which is better than onboard SATA.

 

[vhs]

Hello all, I just registered for an account in this forum not long ago.

 

My build:

 

Hardware:

 

MB: MSI z390m Gaming Edge AC (chipset clock: Connor Winfield DOCSC022F 24MHz)

CPU: i7-8700 (3.2GHZ)

Ram: Corsair DOMINATOR® PLATINUM 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 2400MHz C10 Memory Kit

Case: Streacom FC9 Alpha Fanless Chassis

SSD (OS): Samsung 970 Evo Plus (500G)

HDD (Music File): WD Ultrastar DC HC530 (14T)

SATA Cable: Pachanko "Aphelion" SATA

SATA PCIE Card: IOCrest Marvell 9235 - direct to CPU

NIC: Jcat Net Femto (Powered by Full ATX LPS) - direct to CPU

Lan Cable (Roon Server to Uptone eR): Supra Cat8 (13m) w/Telegartner Cat8.1 RJ45

Lan Cable (Uptone eR to dCS Vivaldi Upsampelr): Pachanko Ethernet "Aphelion (1.5m) w/Telegartner Cat8.1 RJ45

LPS: Uptone JS-2

Vibration Control: Thixar Silence, Stillpoints UltraSS

Power Cable: Shunyata Alpha HC

Hook-up wire: NEOTECH 18 AWG UP-OCC (Teflon)

Ground Box: Telos GNR 3.1mini

 

Software:

 

OS: WS2019 Datacenter w/ AO3 custom Roon Shell and Process Lasso

 

Music Software: Roon Server

 

Tuning :

1. BIOS: Hyper-Threading = ON

2. BIOS: Disable all other features of CPU and unnecessary components

3. WS2019: Disable write-caching for SSD and HDD.

4. WS2019: Network bridge in WS2019 (i.e., Roon Server direct connect to dCS Upsampler via a 13m long Supra Cat8 lan cable)

5. WS2019: Disable 35 numbers of Windows Services

6. Process Lasso: Assign CPU0-3 for OS / CPU4-11 for Roon

7. Process Lasso: Turn off Process Lasso Engine

 

Disable the following Windows Services in WS2019 Datacenter (AO Roon Shell):
1. Themes
2. Print Spooler
3. Windows Font Cache Service
4. Connected User Experience and Telemetry
5. Intel HD Graphics Control Service
6. Intel Push Notifications System Service
7. Program Compatibility Assistant Service
8. Intel Dynamic Application Loader Host Interface Service
9. IP Helper
10. Network List Service
11. Network Connectivity Assistant
12. Network Connection (Manual)
13. Network Connection Broker
14. Connected Devices Platform Service
15. TCP/IP Netbois Helper
16. IPsec Policy Agent
17. COM+Event System
18. System Event Notification Service
19. CRYPTOGRAPHIC Service
20. Web Account Manager
21. Windows Audio
22. Windows Audio Endpoint Builder
23. Human Interface Device Service
24. Quality Windows Audio Video Experience
25. Windows Connections Manager
26. Portable Device Enumerator Service
27. Windows Update
28. Windows Modules Installer
29. IKE and AuthIP IPsec Keying Modules
30. Server
31. Shell Hardware Detection
32. Security Accounts Manager
 

 

CPU Voltage Tuning:

 

CPU Core Voltage = 0.95v

CPU GT Voltage = 0.6v

CPU SA Voltage = Auto

CPU IO Voltage = Auto

CPU PLL OC Voltage = 1.2v

CPU ST PLL Voltage = 0.95v

Dram Voltage = 1.35V

PCH Voltage = Auto

 

 

[mourip]

Thanks @vhs. Looks like a well thought out system.

[Bricki]

On 2/13/2020 at 10:03 AM, lmitche said:

Over here, I am back to bridged USB NICs hanging off two direct to CPU USB 3 ports. Zero PCH traffic. Bliss!

G'day Larry

 

So are using your Etheregen "within" your ethernet bridge? A to B?

[sandyk]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 3:29 PM, soares said:

Just received my kit Furutech + Mundorf Wire for my OPPO 205.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oppo-BDP-93-95-103D-105D-UDP-203-205-Kit-Furutech-Inlet-R-IEC-Mundorf-Wire-/123213854445

For 150$ you get a notable better SQ in what concerns timbre and stage. After all this years still surprised how cables make such a difference... 🙂

Cheers Jorge

The replacement with a Furutech IEC inlet can only result in what can ONLY be a MINOR improvement in performance and reliability due to a more reliable low resistance contact, DESPITE it still using a standard grade mains cable plugging into it.

To take full advantage of the Furutech IEC socket you should also replace the existing cable's IEC plug with a similar high grade IEC plug !

When we first do something like this modification, the differences often appear to be much greater than they really are, although they may indeed be there. Reversing the modification under non sighted conditions will normally show this.  

( I would be among the last person that most members could call Anti-subjective, but just being realistic )

 

Perhaps a better solution may be to bypass the IEC socket entirely ?.

 You should be able to achieve at least as good results by chopping off the mains plug and fitting a 2 pin plug to it as before.
 A small backing plate could be made to cover the I.E.C. socket's hole, with a hole in it for the entry of the cable , using a rubber grommet,  and a mains cable retaining clip to secure the cable internally.
(Similar to https://www.noldtrading.com.au/nylon-cable-clamp-p-clip.html?source=googlebase&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyp7yBRCwARIsABfQsnSdftbPy0DC5M6XUYAfsWAeeajOerVN3Ir8_lUHot0pQSGJ-UXnGXMaAvICEALw_wcB)
 There would then be no advantage to using the Mundorf wire for the final few inches, as the small remaining resistance of the plug and socket connection has been eliminated , as well as a soldered or crimped connection on the Furutech socket itself .

A few inches of the exotic Mundorf wire can only help to compensate a little for the added resistance of the mating of the plug and socket, and perhaps the connections to the IEC socket. There is nothing magic about using this exotic and expensive wire for the final few inches of the A.C. mains supply lead other than perhaps reducing plug/socket resistance slightly for compensation purposes .

[lmitche]

57 minutes ago, Bricki said:

G'day Larry

 

So are using your Etheregen "within" your ethernet bridge? A to B?

I think the ER is best between the router and the server where it eliminates the cable and router born grunge. A side to router, B side to server if copper. Reversed for fiber of course.

[soares]

5 minutes ago, sandyk said:

If the Furutech IEC inlet does indeed result in what can ONLY be a MINOR improvement in performance due to a more reliable low resistance contact, DESPITE it still using a standard grade mains cable plugging into it.

To take full advantage of the Furutech IEC socket you should also replace the existing cable's IEC plug with a similar high grade IEC plug !

When we first do something like this modification, the differences often appear to be much greater than they really are, although they may indeed be there. Reversing the modification under non sighted conditions will normally show this.  

( I would be among the last person that most members could call Anti-subjective, but just being realistic )

 

Perhaps a better solution may be to bypass the IEC socket entirely ?.

 You should be able to achieve at least as good results by chopping off the mains plug and fitting a 2 pin plug to it as before.
 A small backing plate could be made to cover the I.E.C. socket's hole, with a hole in it for the entry of the cable , using a rubber grommet,  and a mains cable retaining clip to secure the cable internally.
(Similar to https://www.noldtrading.com.au/nylon-cable-clamp-p-clip.html?source=googlebase&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyp7yBRCwARIsABfQsnSdftbPy0DC5M6XUYAfsWAeeajOerVN3Ir8_lUHot0pQSGJ-UXnGXMaAvICEALw_wcB)
 There would then be no advantage to using the Mundorf wire for the final few inches, as the small remaining resistance of the plug and socket connection has been eliminated , as well as a soldered or crimped connection on the Furutech socket itself .

A few inches of the exotic Mundorf wire can only help to compensate a little for the added resistance of the mating of the plug and socket, and perhaps the connections to the IEC socket. There is nothing magic about using this exotic and expensive wire for the final few inches of the A.C. mains supply lead other than perhaps reducing plug/socket resistance slightly for compensation purposes .

Thanks for your views. I appreciated them. I compared the two with my Oppo still opened. The differences are minor but I could hear them. Couldn’t try no sighted test, but I trust it was not a biased evaluation. My system is very sensitive and minor changes are easily heard. Perhaps I should have used noticeable and not notable. My apologies for the English... Not my mother tong...🙏

[Bricki]

28 minutes ago, lmitche said:

I think the ER is best between the router and the server where it eliminates the cable and router born grunge. A side to router, B side to server if copper. Reversed for fiber of course.

Interesting, so your endpoint is not directly connected to the Etheregen? 🤔.

 

I will have to give this a try when I get a chance

[lmitche]

38 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Interesting, so your endpoint is not directly connected to the Etheregen? 🤔.

 

I will have to give this a try when I get a chance

My hardware config is likely to be unique, so YMMV. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Bricki]

BTW with regards to the furutech IEC inlets

 

They are a very worthwhile modification. I recently installed the FI-06 NCF IEC inlet on my integrated amp and I am very pleased with the results, particularly considering their relatively low price point. 

 

I also swapped an FI-11 IEC plug for an FI-50 NCF and found it to be a very worthwhile upgrade also. This is used on the power cord for my sps-500 that powers my Audiolinux endpoint NUC. 

 

In both cases the furutech rhodium plating takes an exceptional amount of time to burn in... there is an irritating harshness to the sound that does not disappear until you have over 500 hours burn in time.

 

 

In the long run you are left with a smooth sound without harshness and extra clarity and transient attack as well as a larger sound stage and greater depth.

[StreamFidelity]

8 hours ago, Bricki said:

BTW with regards to the furutech IEC inlets

 

They are a very worthwhile modification.

 

The Furutech NCF plugs and sockets also eliminated bottlenecks in my Power Line Conditioner GigaWatt PC-2 EVO+. The processing of the GigaWatt is flawless. Except for the IEC socket and the cheap power switch.

 

 

fis Audio has prepared the Furutech NCF IEC socket (left) with a special solder. On the right is the old one.

 

 

The vulnerabilities of the crimped connections are now bypassed.

 

 

 

The reward for the effort: A much cleaner bass.

[Ricardo007]

Hello

I need a little help : i try to source a usb stick SLC type online to buy but unsuccessful search so far ... can somebody help? 32 or 64Gb ideally or even 16Gb

Thanks

[adamaley]

https://geizhals.eu/winkom-pendrive-16gb-a599978.html?hloc=eu&v=e&fbclid=IwAR0lNxS_CuXwivtgFDJkUox8orZ5zwoli5Ll1u0_agPwkJgdUgaZdnVY3jg

 

http://www.memorydepot.com/ssd/listcat.html?catid=USBFLASH

 

Here are a few. Haven't used them, so can't endorse them.

[barrows]

On 2/8/2020 at 4:39 AM, FredM said:

Funny that Taiko Audio, Pink Faun and Grimm Audio are all located within a 1,5 hour drive from each other.

 

Just as funny as PS Audio, Ayre Acoustics, and Avalon Acoustics being within 10 minute drive from each other?

[mnuno10]

Hi,

 

I will make a fanless NUC to run Euphony Stylus with Tidal. I'm thinking of buy:

- NUC: NUC8i3BEH or NUC8i5BEH

- Disk: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250 GB NVMe M.2 Internal SSD

- Case: Akasa Turing

This seems good? Or do you have any other recommendation? What RAM(amount and model) do you recommend?

 

Thank you in advance.

[seeteeyou]

On 2/13/2020 at 4:43 AM, Nenon said:

So you are thinking that Melco used the Buffalo BS-GS2016/A with better power supply and maybe a better clock?

 

That would make the Buffalo BS-GS2016/A switch an excellent choice for tweaking. 

Do you happen to know the difference between BS-GS2016/A and BS-GS2016 (without the /A part)? The BS-GS2016 model is $210 on Amazon. Hmmmm.... not that I have spare time for more projects, but that is quite intriguing . 

 

How about EuphonyBridge  ? 

I have been thinking about this too, but I think networking is completely different than processing music. So what works best in one may not work best for the other. I personally would not go that route though. But I am up for modding a Buffalo switch. I even have a 25Mhz PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock. 

 

They simply got rid of the PSU inside BS-GS2016/A and then DC input was added. Some caps were also added inside S100 but they should be fairly cheap when compared to much nicer ones from Duelund or Mundorf etc. The best 25MHz clock from NDK only costs 10 bucks and it wouldn't be such a biggie. Maybe that chassis could add some costs to the package?

 

This review pointed out the (minor) differences between BS-GS2016/A and BS-GS2016 and that guy was getting his answers from Buffalo directly

 

https://kakaku.com/kuchikomi/review/history/?NickName=9832312e&CategoryCD=0074

 

Odd number ports on top were disabled by default and that's why plastic covers were added.

 

LLDP was disabled by default.

 

Hostname was changed to BS-2016_A by default.

 

DHCP was enabled by default.

 

And then they just threw in a nicer Ethernet cable with a different manual, that's it.

 

IMHO it's a bit too steep to ask for more than $200 on Amazon, while it really doesn't cost THAT much in UK and EU etc.

 

https://pricespy.co.uk/computers-accessories/networking/switches/buffalo-bs-gs2016--p4657193

https://skinflint.co.uk/buffalo-bs-gs-desktop-gigabit-smart-switch-bs-gs2016-a1925677.html#offerlist

https://www.amazon.de/Buffalo-BS-GS2016-EU-konfigurierbar-Metallgehäuse-lüfterlos/dp/B07HKBBW2Q

 

About 165 bucks with free shipping to Australia, Japan, Hong Kong, New Zealand

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Buffalo-BS-GS-Series-BS-GS2016-Switch-smart-16-x-10-100-1000-2-x-BS-GS2016-EU/293468195717

 

It used be available here for $136.99 last week

 

https://www.adorama.com/bubsgs2016.html

 

They also have another unmanaged version without any SFP ports but the specs of BS-GU2016 looked so different when compared to those of BS-GS2016

 

https://www.amazon.de/Buffalo-BS-GS2016-EU-konfigurierbar-Metallgehäuse-lüfterlos/dp/B07HKFZTGM

 

BTW, BS-GS2024 is also fanless but for some reasons it's even cheaper on Amazon.

[Bricki]

On 2/16/2020 at 10:29 AM, lmitche said:

My hardware config is likely to be unique, so YMMV. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks again Larry for sharing your experiments, I have finally had a chance to spend several hours trying out your recent suggestions.

 

I got myself a TP Link UE300 with the realtek 8153 chipset and I decided to go for your full suggestion of putting the server on the b side of the Etheregen feeding into the RJ45 port of the server and then bridge one USB NIC on the server to another USB NIC (UE 300) on the endpoint NUC, joined with the cable matters cat 8. I changed this connection speed to 100Mbps because in my system I found 1Gbps too glassy in the treble. On the A side of the Etheregen I only have a Supra cat8 going to my router... I have also turned off 5Ghz WiFi on the router for a small gain (less glassy treble). 

 

I have been using this configuration for several hours now and so far I'm liking what I'm hearing. I think that there are some gains from having the server on the b side further separated from the router... I am hearing more ambient cues and decay on some tracks and small background details that simply weren't there before. 

 

The addition of the Etheregen in my system really made music incredibly enjoyable and engaging, so I'll see how I like this new configuration over the next week and if I don't feel as engaged with the music as I did before then I might revert back to just the endpoint on the B side again to compare, but for now I'm saying that your configuration is a success in my system 😁👍

 

 

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Bricki said:

Thanks again Larry for sharing your experiments, I have finally had a chance to spend several hours trying out your recent suggestions.

 

I got myself a TP Link UE300 with the realtek 8153 chipset and I decided to go for your full suggestion of putting the server on the b side of the Etheregen feeding into the RJ45 port of the server and then bridge one USB NIC on the server to another USB NIC (UE 300) on the endpoint NUC, joined with the cable matters cat 8. I changed this connection speed to 100Mbps because in my system I found 1Gbps too glassy in the treble. On the A side of the Etheregen I only have a Supra cat8 going to my router... I have also turned off 5Ghz WiFi on the router for a small gain (less glassy treble). 

 

I have been using this configuration for several hours now and so far I'm liking what I'm hearing. I think that there are some gains from having the server on the b side further separated from the router... I am hearing more ambient cues and decay on some tracks and small background details that simply weren't there before. 

 

The addition of the Etheregen in my system really made music incredibly enjoyable and engaging, so I'll see how I like this new configuration over the next week and if I don't feel as engaged with the music as I did before then I might revert back to just the endpoint on the B side again to compare, but for now I'm saying that your configuration is a success in my system 😁👍

 

 

Hi Bricki,

 

Another option is to use the two bridged USB NICs on the server, one to the ER, the other to the NUC, with direct to cpu ports if possible. (A multi-port USB card like the 2 channel 4 port Startech externally powered with 12 volts and installed in a direct to cpu pcie slot works well in Intel machines. On AMD motherboards there are often several direct to cpu USB 3 slots on board already).

 

TheEthernet port in the i7 NUC sounds better than an USB NIC here, so you only need two server side USB NICs not three.

 

Be sure to disable Energy Efficient Ethernet (EEE) on the server to NIC connection with ethtool. Once the latter is done, give 1gbps another go.

 

[Chopin75]

On 2/21/2020 at 3:53 PM, mnuno10 said:

Hi,

 

I will make a fanless NUC to run Euphony Stylus with Tidal. I'm thinking of buy:

- NUC: NUC8i3BEH or NUC8i5BEH

- Disk: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250 GB NVMe M.2 Internal SSD

- Case: Akasa Turing

This seems good? Or do you have any other recommendation? What RAM(amount and model) do you recommend?

 

Thank you in advance.

U don't need a 250 GB SSD, it is too noisy.  The Euphony runs on 8GB minimum but you likely not store music files on the SSD (unless you will, but since you do tidal, I presume you won't store music files). Some use Optane M2 drive which is supposed to be quietest.  If you still want the EVO, maybe a lower GB would be be quieter.  You can also load music files (if not using tidal) into Ecache remotely file manager or external drive that can be detached afterwards,  so you won't need a large SSD. 

I presume you will have a LPS for the NUC ?

[Miska]

On 2/22/2020 at 2:27 PM, lmitche said:

Be sure to disable Energy Efficient Ethernet (EEE) on the server to NIC connection with ethtool. Once the latter is done, give 1gbps another go.

 

Why?

 

My recommendation for NAA usage with HQPlayer is specifically to have it, because it makes the Ethernet link much more quiet. It can deal with both the amount of power put on the wire, and also sleep when there is no data traffic.

 

I have it specifically enabled on all my links...