Jump to content
austinpop

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

The Computer Audiophile

Important and useful information about this thread

Posting guidelines

History and index of useful posts

Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

Message added by The Computer Audiophile

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

47 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Well done Mark at Sablon for creating such a great USB cable at a sensible price.

 

 Just remember to order cables that are no longer than absolutely needed. They ALL degrade a little with length.

 The better cables will continue to work without errors at longer lengths than most of the cheap generic cables though with their often thinner gauge copper wire, especially the +5V and 0 volt ("earth return ") wires if USB power is needed..


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

There's been a few posts here with regards to the new Sablon USB Cable and on WBF (Romaz review). I have happily been using Curious USB cable for the past year or so. So I thought I would give the Sablon a go. The first 1 minute I new this was the best decision I have made in a long time. I am no good at explaining SQ with cables, all I can say after 5 hours of listening is it's probably the last USB cable I will ever buy.

 

I got a chance earlier this week to hear the Shunyata Sigma USB in my system.  At twice the price of my current USB cable - a Shunyata Alpha - you would expect it to be a lot better - and yet my expectations were still blown away.  I never imagined that a USB cable could have such a profound impact.

 

It might have been wise of me to compare the Sigma to the Sablon given the feedback reported here. I do think though that the Sigma gains a synergy advantage from my use of Shunyata cables pretty much throughout.  I also had on hand the Sigma ethernet, which I tried between my EtherRegen and Innuos Zenith. Here's a comment I shared with friends after I swapped in the Sigma USB with the Sigma Ethernet already in place: “but when you keep building on this [the Shunyata house sound] piece by piece the result gets better and better at taking your breath away."  


Digital:  Innuos Zenith Std Mk2 > Shunyata Sigma USB > Chord Hugo M-Scaler > Wireworld Gold Startlight > OPTO DX > Shunyata Alpha S/PDIF > Chord Hugo TT2 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I have been looking at the Taiko Extreme server with huge admiration to Emile. There is no way on earth a DIY-er like me could ever get to the level of engineering and tweaking Emile has done on his server. And romaz does not help with his "actually took only 30 seconds" comment (to realize how good the Extreme is). Okay, maybe one day I will get an Extreme too. But until then I will keep pushing the limits of my DIY servers to see how far we can go. Yes, I have probably spent as much as a new Taiko Extreme on experiments, many of which were not successful. I realize that. But it's a nice hobby, especially in the winter months in Chicago. 

 

A natural thought in my head would be to try some of the components that are used in the Taiko Extreme. That would be without all the incredible things/tweaks Emile has done, which are many. How much of the performance of the Extreme can we get out of the stock components? 10%? 20%? 50%? 80%? No one knows. Curiosity to try this motherboard and CPUs (Asus WS C621E Sage with 2X Intel Xeon Silver 4114 CPU) kept growing and growing. But there are at least 3 challenges with that:

  1. Power - you have to power up not one but two high powered CPU with clean power. There are some linear power supplies that can do that - Paul Hynes Designs and Sean Jacobs have high current linear power supplies. Farad is working on one. Marcin is also working on something. The HDPlex 800W DC to DC can also be a good option in addition to a high current power supply.
  2. Passive cooling case for the extended ATX size motherboard. Turemetal UP10 is the only suitable case I know. Expensive but there is a solution.
  3. RAM. Taiko Extreme uses custom high quality RDIMM RAM. And this is the biggest problem. We now know how much difference the RAM makes. And I would not want to invest so much into such build only to put some bad quality RAM modules in it. Our favorite manufacturer, Apacer, does not produce industrial wide-temperature RDIMM RAM. And that is the main reason I never bought that Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard.

Well, after long discussions with Apacer, they spec’ed custom wide temperature industrial memory for me and are willing to run one small custom batch of it. It has the same specs as the ECC RAM that sounds best. I am getting it! Taiko uses 12 x 4 GB. I am planning to get two sets. So far, there is no indication that this memory would be produced as a regular product, besides this custom batch, but you never know. However, I will not miss the opportunity.  If anyone else is interested, please ping me on PM.

 

 

 

That is going to be quite a project!


 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

That is going to be quite a project!

 

Indeed! I don't know when I will work on this, but I will start collecting some of the parts now. Probably after the summer...

Right now, I am working on this:

On 2/5/2020 at 4:55 PM, Nenon said:

I have used the AsRock in previous builds. It's a great motherboard. You can't go wrong with either of them. I have a slight preference towards the Asus.

 

Also, speaking of HDplex H5 and Asus ROG motherboards, I have the big brother - Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero placed in a H5 case (not mounted, just placed on top). This is obviously an AMD motherboard, not Intel. 

IMG_2643.thumb.jpg.29a874264d490602b23247ba78b6ccd3.jpg

 

When I did the build in this thread, I had a lengthy discussion with the now owner of this server, and it was decided to go with what I already knew works best rather than experimenting with new things. The Asus motherboard was a wonderful serendipity. So, time for new experiments with a bigger Asus motherboard now. 

 

The three BIG questions I would like answers for are:

1. Does this big full size ATX motherboard sound better than its smaller sibling I am currently using in their stock versions?

2. How much better Qobuz would sound (if it sounds better) when my JCAT NET Femto NIC is on a regular PCIe slot with no extension cables?

3. Last, but not least, what would be the effects of changing the motherboard clocks with high quality OCXO clocks? That's the part I am most curious about as it's something I have never done before. If time allows, I may even document the clock changing process here, but I am not promising.

 

What I like about the H5 case is that it supports a full size ATX motherboard and allows you to mount all PCIe cards vertically with no adaptors. 

IMG_2644.jpg.724a8f18bd1c02dcc4a0f51de26970d5.jpg

What I don't like about the case is that this plate needs to come out completely every time you want to add or remove a PCIe card. But I haven't assembled it yet, so maybe there is a workaround this. It also feels a little cheaper quality than the Streacom, and I wish the top and bottom plates were thicker. 

 

This won't be a fully documented build like I did before, but rather some comparisons after I do the work. It would probably take several weeks before I have any discoveries I can share. I may post some info on the clock changing process, though. 

 

The first problem I am running into - I am not sure which PCIe slot is connected directly to the CPU and which goes through the chipset. If anyone knows, please let me know. It would save me some time. Ultimately, if I can't find any info I can probably trace the PCB traces on the motherboard and figure it out, but that would be too geeky :). 

 

Stay tuned for more updates.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I have been looking at the Taiko Extreme server with huge admiration to Emile. There is no way on earth a DIY-er like me could ever get to the level of engineering and tweaking Emile has done on his server. And romaz does not help with his "actually took only 30 seconds" comment (to realize how good the Extreme is). Okay, maybe one day I will get an Extreme too. But until then I will keep pushing the limits of my DIY servers to see how far we can go. Yes, I have probably spent as much as a new Taiko Extreme on experiments, many of which were not successful. I realize that. But it's a nice hobby, especially in the winter months in Chicago. 

 

A natural thought in my head would be to try some of the components that are used in the Taiko Extreme. That would be without all the incredible things/tweaks Emile has done, which are many. How much of the performance of the Extreme can we get out of the stock components? 10%? 20%? 50%? 80%? No one knows. Curiosity to try this motherboard and CPUs (Asus WS C621E Sage with 2X Intel Xeon Silver 4114 CPU) kept growing and growing. But there are at least 3 challenges with that:

  1. Power - you have to power up not one but two high powered CPU with clean power. There are some linear power supplies that can do that - Paul Hynes Designs and Sean Jacobs have high current linear power supplies. Farad is working on one. Marcin is also working on something. The HDPlex 800W DC to DC can also be a good option in addition to a high current power supply.
  2. Passive cooling case for the extended ATX size motherboard. Turemetal UP10 is the only suitable case I know. Expensive but there is a solution.
  3. RAM. Taiko Extreme uses custom high quality RDIMM RAM. And this is the biggest problem. We now know how much difference the RAM makes. And I would not want to invest so much into such build only to put some bad quality RAM modules in it. Our favorite manufacturer, Apacer, does not produce industrial wide-temperature RDIMM RAM. And that is the main reason I never bought that Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard.

Well, after long discussions with Apacer, they spec’ed custom wide temperature industrial memory for me and are willing to run one small custom batch of it. It has the same specs as the ECC RAM that sounds best. I am getting it! Taiko uses 12 x 4 GB. I am planning to get two sets. So far, there is no indication that this memory would be produced as a regular product, besides this custom batch, but you never know. However, I will not miss the opportunity.  If anyone else is interested, please ping me on PM.

 

 

 

@Nenon you are getting into the ultimate DIY level now. All the best!

 

I think you have very nicely listed down all the key requirements. One thing that will be very different between the two builds is the OS itself - Taiko uses optimized Windows which sounds very different from Linux variants. You already know this but your biggest factor or challenge will be powering it at an equivalent level as Taiko. After you are done with your project, it will be very interesting to get a direct comparison with the Extreme (if someone can loan you one 🙂).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WS C621E SAGE might / might not support Optane DCPMMs but let's take a look together.

 

I know what's going on in China these days but 128GB Optane DCPMMs should cost about 185 bucks a pop over there

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=591150702088

 

6 DIMM slots for each CPU and therefore we'll get 12 slots then, could we actually allocate 1 RDIMM (8GB - CTO only from Table 10) plus 5 DCPMMs (i.e. 8GB + 640GB for each CPU) by any chance?

 

https://lenovopress.com/lp1066.pdf#page=10

 

Instead of 10-core Xeon Silver 4114, we'll have to go for 8-core Xeon Silver 4215 instead

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/193389/intel-xeon-silver-4215-processor-11m-cache-2-50-ghz.html

 

Granted the latency of RDIMM should be FAR superior to Optane DCPMMs for obvious reasons, though we could actually take advantage of Optane for storage purposes in terms of OS / music library / Roon database etc.

 

Is 6-channel memory support for Xeon Scalable family really THAT important? Most of those slots could be saved for storage if Optane DCPMMs were a higher priority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

  1. Passive cooling case for the extended ATX size motherboard. Turemetal UP10 is the only suitable case I know. Expensive but there is a solution.

 

 

The ASUS mobo is too large for the UP10.  I spoke to the people there and this is what they said:
 
The motherboard cannot be larger than 305x290mm, 
but the motherboard you  have choosen is 305x330mm, so you can only change to a smaller size.

 


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 

Rajiv, I plunged into the valley of despair, but I moved quickly through denial, anger, and negotiation, and arrived at the bliss of acceptance, and ordered an Extreme.  

 

Scary check to write, but a very similar feeling to when I ordered my Chord DAVE blind (deaf?) after hearing a Chord Mojo.  Never looked back on that decision, and I am confident that that experience will repeat with the Extreme.  

 

Stay tuned....

 

Congratulations! I am very envious, and I am sure it will be a big SQ boost in your system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2019 at 8:05 PM, austinpop said:


So far, I have tried

  1. -b 2097152:2097152 -a 52428800:4::
  2. -b 1048576:1048576 -a 26214400:4::
  3. -b 524288:524288 -a 13107200:4::
  4. defaults (nothing in the Euphony expert field)

 

Only 4. is glitch free. :(

 

So the answer lies beyond.

 

 

 

Perhaps Roon 1.7 changed things.  I'm a bit late to the game of experimenting with SL.  However, I'm running -b 2097152:2097152 -a 52428800:4:: as a start and haven't had any issues for 30 tracks, internet radio, skipping, playing continuous...sounds good, better than Roon straight. - Nevermind, it's glitching.

 

I may go higher on buffers as I've got plentiful RAM.  

 

For what it's worth, I've been exceedingly happy with my Pink Faun 2.16 that appears to be a contender with the Taiko Extreme at ~1/4 of $.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m really curious if anyone has hear both the SGM Extreme and the Pink Faun 2.16x and compare the nature of the sound. 
 

It’s a comparison of a 2 box system (2 CPUs in one box) with the Extreme and a 1 box/CPU system using software to assign different cores of the CPU to act like a 2 box system with the Pink Faun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, austinpop said:

@Nenon

 

Thanks for cheering me up with that post. Now that @romaz has achieved moksha and ascended to a higher "I am done" state, we lesser mortals need a new leader to take us forward!

 

In all seriousness, I have been kinda depressed since I read Roy's epic Extreme posts on WBF. As you know, I have a similar build to Roy, also powered by SR-7 DR rails. I thought this thing sounds amazing, and it's depressing to learn that it can be so comprehensively bettered with something I could never afford in this lifetime. 24,000€ - sheesh!

 

But then, on reflection, positive thoughts have re-emerged. One of the tangible outcomes of this thread is when manufacturers pick up on the DIY findings and start delivering products with these findings baked in. This has happened with audiophile switches, USB regenerators, reference clocks and others. But for some reason, this was not the case with music servers and endpoints. The SGM Extreme is the singular product whose philosophy of using extreme compute resources to run an extremely light workload matches our DIY findings. This is something to celebrate, as to me it represents a validation that the approach is sound. I hasten to add that I am not claiming that our ideas drove Emile - indeed it may have been the other way around.

 

The challenge now is to achieve anything even approaching the the Extreme using DIY. Of course, the other ray of hope is that Emile has indicated he wants to bring out follow-on products at a lower price point, which is classic trickle-down at work. Maybe these will be priced at more achievable levels.

 

OK - I feel better now.

It's all for good. Taiko raised the bar. We have some new goals to reach. New challenges. It started to get a little boring here with everyone doing the same builds with NUCs or the AsRock/Asus gaming motherboards and not a lot of fresh ideas.

Actually credit about new ideas goes to @jean-michel6 for pointing out the Engineered board. I haven't tried it but looks very interesting, especially for integration inside the DAC. There are some other new interesting products coming on the market too. The only problem I see is our hobby just got a lot more expensive :)

 

4 hours ago, ray-dude said:

ordered an Extreme

Congratulations! I am sure you made the right decision.

 

4 hours ago, dminches said:

The ASUS mobo is too large for the UP10.

That's a bummer! Thanks for letting me know. I have been looking for the internal dimensions of the UP10, but there is very little info. It did look quite short indeed. One of the members here was planning to get one, and I asked him for more pictures and dimensions. I am not in a hurry, though. Maybe something else will pop up on the market in the next few months. I can probably modify an existing chassis for this. It just creates more work and probably would not end up as good looking as the UP10. Memory was my bigger concern, as that's not something I can do myself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, flkin said:

I’m really curious if anyone has hear both the SGM Extreme and the Pink Faun 2.16x and compare the nature of the sound. 
 

It’s a comparison of a 2 box system (2 CPUs in one box) with the Extreme and a 1 box/CPU system using software to assign different cores of the CPU to act like a 2 box system with the Pink Faun. 


Mono and Stereo listened to both and gave the Extreme a best of 2019 award and ranked the PF in the upper echelon class (one tier below editor’s choice): https://www.monoandstereo.com 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, McNulty said:


Mono and Stereo listened to both and gave the Extreme a best of 2019 award and ranked the PF in the upper echelon class (one tier below editor’s choice): https://www.monoandstereo.com 

 

Thanks, over at 6moons the Taiko Extreme and Grimm MU1 are lined up for a review. 

 

8 hours ago, flkin said:

I’m really curious if anyone has hear both the SGM Extreme and the Pink Faun 2.16x and compare the nature of the sound. 

 

Funny that Taiko Audio, Pink Faun and Grimm Audio are all located within a 1,5 hour drive from each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, FredM said:

 

Thanks, over at 6moons the Taiko Extreme and Grimm MU1 are lined up for a review. 

 

 

Oh nice, curious about that review.

 

 


🇳🇱
Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

EtherRegen, Clock modded Isoregen, Lush^2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Iving said:

 

 

 

 

As mentioned recently on this thread (and in other places and at other times here at AS) isn't the Streacom F12C getting curiously short shrift? It accommodates all ATX mobos including extended. Admittedly you don't run copper pipes to the case, but the height of the F12C permits passive copper cooling in other ways and what's the difference? Yes my NOFAN IcePipe caters for a ceiling TDP but that ceiling is way, way over my needs and I imagine there would be other ways of going about things for devotees of "advanced" CPUs and for those who upsample heavily or use demanding software. There are other advantages to an F12C: full height PCIe without risers etc. So I can have a PCIe card for my ethernet-based (Dante/RedNet) system and also an Optane Add-in Card (280Gb but bigger ones are obtainable) with o/s and prn music on it - both PCIe Cards on CPU-direct lanes! (I use an Asus Z270-WS mobo.) Plus the Streacom (black) cases are very handsome and I imagine mine will be a smashing match for the SR7 I have on order when the latter arrives due March. There's plenty of room in my F12C for that chunky HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX Converter! I have always been interested in what folks have had to say about NUCs and have followed this thread fairly closely - ever wondering what might explain NUC SQ - but never been really convinced except thinking about keeping electronic turbulence to a minimum in a physical system (mobo) of smaller dimensions. But if that were a sole explanation our smartphones would sound better than our PCs and they don't. Anyway - it's great to see Nenon pioneering DIY server-building at this time (and I appreciate very much the pointers he gave me via PM regards building DC cables for my pending SR7). I wouldn't gloat - but it is of some small satisfaction that things are turning circle somewhat should we like-minded audiophiles start to re-consider "much bigger and powerful components" ... in which case (sic) ... Streacom F12C if you can get one!

 

I have used a Streacom FC5 for several years as my server. It has passive cooling which does limit the CPU a bit and only one full size horizontal PCI slot. However it is very roomy, and as a server can still work very well since you will probably just use the slot for a JCAT FEMTO card or an optical NIC and not need USB. I have used it as standalone with USB out, with an optical NIC as a server, and now with a bridged FEMTO card as a ROON Core server. It has "served" me well and continues to do so.

 

I bought it from Quuietpc.com and found them to be very good to work with.



"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, austinpop said:

@Nenon

 

Thanks for cheering me up with that post. Now that @romaz has achieved moksha and ascended to a higher "I am done" state, we lesser mortals need a new leader to take us forward!

 

In all seriousness, I have been kinda depressed since I read Roy's epic Extreme posts on WBF. As you know, I have a similar build to Roy, also powered by SR-7 DR rails. I thought this thing sounds amazing, and it's depressing to learn that it can be so comprehensively bettered with something I could never afford in this lifetime. 24,000€ - sheesh!

 

But then, on reflection, positive thoughts have re-emerged. One of the tangible outcomes of this thread is when manufacturers pick up on the DIY findings and start delivering products with these findings baked in. This has happened with audiophile switches, USB regenerators, reference clocks and others. But for some reason, this was not the case with music servers and endpoints. The SGM Extreme is the singular product whose philosophy of using extreme compute resources to run an extremely light workload matches our DIY findings. This is something to celebrate, as to me it represents a validation that the approach is sound. I hasten to add that I am not claiming that our ideas drove Emile - indeed it may have been the other way around.

 

The challenge now is to achieve anything even approaching the the Extreme using DIY. Of course, the other ray of hope is that Emile has indicated he wants to bring out follow-on products at a lower price point, which is classic trickle-down at work. Maybe these will be priced at more achievable levels.

 

OK - I feel better now.

Have you actually heard your system against Roy's most recent ?

Or are you just envious that he seems to have reached Moksha?

 

 Regarding Mokhsa and music listening my current  take on it, after a  great week of downhill-skiing during which a good friend gave me 6 gigabytes of mainly Indian and  other world music, as 16/44.1 wave files, is that in particular Anoushka Shankar's album RISE brings me at least close to Moksha on a daily basis.

 

PURE BLISS via my quite big  electrostatic speakers ,my 900 watts per channel amp and mbp via usb and Qutest/HMS/Audirvana.

I really wonder if I could be even more amazed and thrilled by her fantastic music than my relatively  humble system already delivers?

And its freaking rbcd not even hi res!

 

For anyone who wants to explore a bit  beyond their Western Pop/Rock Comfort Zone I can very heartily recommend Anoushka Shankar's music.

She records among other labels also for DGG and there are some interesting Youtube videos of her playing LIVE at Music Festivals as well.

RISE is just one album among  several others she has recorded that is imho capable of giving  at least ME,a non drug induced REAL HIGH equalled by few other musicians, including her half sister Norah Jones whose music more people are probably a lot more  familair with.

Norah's music is nice and  very good at its best imho.

 

But Anoushka's is on a much more advanced level musically

Moksha music.

Oops  I almost forgot to mention that she plays the Indian instrument Sitar. And one comment about that instrument I've read said." Sitar is an instrument smuggled through Heaven"

I'd like to add, here it is played by a Godess

Cheers Chrille

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, Taiko Extreme is a physical monster... whereas Streacom F12C is 440*320*184mm including feet, Taiko Extreme is 483*455*180mm including feet.

 

At the Taiko Audio website I found this interesting:
"280Gb of PCIe Intel Optane storage for the operating system ... operating system built from the ground up using the Windows 10 components designed for industrial controller applications with SOTA process schedulers"

[I'd like to know more!]

 

also that the Extreme's ethernet ports are merely 2 mobo NICs (cf. available CPU-direct lanes)

 

and strictly it is not a "no moving parts" unit [well I see fans inside the Hyper M.2 x16 Cards].

 

It's a highly engineered Roon > JPLAY > USB device.

 

What I like about DIY is that you can "highly engineer" to your own prerogatives (none of Roon, JPLAY or USB are tolerable for me).

 


Disclaimer! I have not in the past, I do not now, and I am not likely ever to stream music from the internet.

System: here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Nenon said:

Curiosity to try this motherboard and CPUs (Asus WS C621E Sage with 2X Intel Xeon Silver 4114 CPU) kept growing and growing. 

 

Even this high-performance Audio PC will not run with every audio application. My guess. In this case not with HQPlayer if the EC modulators are used for DSD. The HQPlayer then needs at least 4GHz for about 3-4 cores. Too bad.

 

Specification Intel® Xeon® Silver 4114 Processor
Processor base frequency 2.20 GHz
Max Turbo Frequency 3.00 GHz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...