A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[RickyV]

18 minutes ago, Metnoc said:

 

Later than promised but here it is, my take on Farad Super 3.

Tried two farad, a 19V for my roon core computer and a 12V for the sms200ultra endpoint.
Furutech rhodium fuse for the 19V and Synergistic research blue fuse for the 12V. Both upgraded with Furutech rhodium ac-inlet. Farad level 2 dc copper cables and Farad power cords.

 

In short, the results where kinda similar with farad to both the roon core and endpoint, however a larger impact on the endpoint. Farad sounded liquid, dense and a little dark. It bested the Uptone lps 1.2 for the endpoint, uptone sounded a little thin in comparison.

Also tried Audio Linux instead of windows 10 with Fidelizer which I usually use for the roon core computer. Thought maybe that I would prefer AL with Farad PSU, but still enjoy the sound of windows more. AL sounds somewhat thin to my ears.

Have you tried Euphony? It has more body. 

[Metnoc]

2 hours ago, RickyV said:

Have you tried Euphony? It has more body. 

Not really, just tried to start it once.

[austinpop]

Just a quick update on my new pride and joy - the Paul Hynes SR7MR3DRXLFC10, a.k.a build 17. The birth announcement was here: 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/56391-paul-hynes-sr7-and-sr4-build-calendar-thread/?do=findComment&comment=997537

 

 

Several of you have asked for an update, so here it is. To be honest, my time has been very limited of late, so I have a lot of experiments queued up. Given the large 500VA and 300VA transformers, and the assorted caps in Paul's DR boards, I feel (and hear) this unit needs a fair bit on burn in time.

 

The only thing I will confirm, which is actually rather depressing, is that even with no burn in, the improvement going just from SR-7 SR to DR rails was shocking. I replaced the inputs to my Chord HMS and tX-USBultra with DR rails from this new supply and the increase in transparency, size, and weight was just stunning.

 

The trick for me now - and I admit this is not just a first-world problem, but a 1% problem - is to figure out where these 3 precious DR rails have the most impact in my system. My plan was to apply 2 of these rails to my server, but now I need to prove that that is indeed the best use of these precious resources.

[austinpop]

One of the reasons I've been posting rather infrequently here is because I was busy with my review of the dCS Bartók, that went live this morning.

 

I mention this here because the Bartók is the first component I've had in my system that was only modestly improved by all the upstream optimization  we've been discovering on this thread. I'd love to see this kind of resilience (and even better) over time, and at lower price points. 

 

Contrary to what many of our naysayers may think, I suspect most of us would be happy to give up upstream tinkering if one day our DACs became completely immune to upstream effects - both good and bad.

[soares]

Great review Rajiv!

Thank you!

Jorge

[[email protected]]

On 10/15/2019 at 7:12 AM, sandyk said:

 

At those kinds of already very low noise levels , a LOW and FLAT Output Impedance over a very wide bandwidth is more desirable with PC Audio than the ultimate in noise level. This applies just as much to Digital areas as it does to Analogue Audio areas.

( My apologies for the Off Topic response.)

Alex

Again, In my humble opinion, ILIM drop compensation is USELESS... I have only following statements from @Superdad
1. Output impedance for LPS 1.2 is a "FEW" mOhms
2. ILIM Circuit is a “easy way to cut the output impedance nearly in half”

So – what is the “few mOhms” in figures??? Should I consider it as 10mOhm with ILIM? And <20mOhm without ILIM? You need to add also 2 connectors and feeder cable resistance and easily can have additional 50-100mOhms impedance at the point of load - difference will be 50 vs 60mOhms or even 100 vs 110mOhms between ILIM/No ILIM options.  

[sandyk]

Alexy

I suggest that you discuss this with Alex Crespi.

I am only reporting my own observations

Regards

Alex K.

[marce]

55 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Again, In my humble opinion, ILIM drop compensation is USELESS... I have only following statements from @Superdad
1. Output impedance for LPS 1.2 is a "FEW" mOhms
2. ILIM Circuit is a “easy way to cut the output impedance nearly in half”

So – what is the “few mOhms” in figures??? Should I consider it as 10mOhm with ILIM? And <20mOhm without ILIM? You need to add also 2 connectors and feeder cable resistance and easily can have additional 50-100mOhms impedance at the point of load - difference will be 50 vs 60mOhms or even 100 vs 110mOhms between ILIM/No ILIM options.  

Output impedance and cable resistance are different, one is AC one is DC, you can't add connector and cable resistance to the output impedance.

[seeteeyou]

On 10/21/2019 at 3:44 PM, kennyb123 said:

It probably won’t be until early next year that I acquire a Super3. It was truly awesome though that I got a chance to hear one in my system so I’d have a better idea of what to expect. 

 

Supposedly they're working on Super12 with 3 rails but for some reasons this link should be removed at some point, maybe we'll also see something like Super15 with 3 rails as well?

 

https://faradpowersupplies.com/shop/en/content/12-future-developments

 

I also enjoyed reading your listening impressions here when you're describing the synergy between Wireworld Gold Starlight and Shunyata Research Alpha

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-m-scaler-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.885042/page-590#post-15264585

 

BTW, do you or any of your buddies nearby have Mutec REF 10 or any kinda 10MHz reference clock? So far nobody actually experimented with replacing a plain vanilla 75Ω clock cable with ODX yet, that's why it might end up to be another surprise.

[str-1]

14 hours ago, austinpop said:

The only thing I will confirm, which is actually rather depressing, is that even with no burn in, the improvement going just from SR-7 SR to DR rails was shocking. I replaced the inputs to my Chord HMS and tX-USBultra with DR rails from this new supply and the increase in transparency, size, and weight was just stunning.

Thanks for the update.  I’m pleased for you to hear this but depressed for me as I’ve only just put in an order for a 2-rail standard build SR7 (12V and 15V).  I’ve had one or two near misses on picking up a relatively low-number custom build but have now given up hope on that.  Just hoping that the standard SR7 will provide a significant improvement over my SR4-12 and 15V Farad Super3.

[[email protected]]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

Alexy

I suggest that you discuss this with Alex Crespi.

I am only reporting my own observations

Regards

Alex K.

i will be happy to discussi it with @Superdad but very often he is ingoring my questions
i really want to know more details about measurements they did, see diagramms available if any, equipment used for the measurements etc

 

[bobfa]

45 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

i will be happy to discussi it with @Superdad but very often he is ingoring my questions
i really want to know more details about measurements they did, see diagramms available if any, equipment used for the measurements etc

 

I would doubt that he would give you that kind of info.  Seems very proprietary to me if not trade secret to his company.  I would move on and do my own work.  But that is me.  

 

Note that this thread is mostly about listening observations of things we have done.  Let’s try to keep it on track.

[Superdad]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:49 AM, [email protected] said:

possible reasons

it is almost useless
it is harmful

i belive that you can get lower impedance with ILIM circuit, but i prefer have lower noise 

 

2 hours ago, [email protected] said:

i will be happy to discussi it with @Superdad but very often he is ingoring my questions
i really want to know more details about measurements they did, see diagramms available if any, equipment used for the measurements etc

 

HI Alexey:

Sorry, I am not trying to ignore you.  I do not have any diagrams for you.  @JohnSwenson made the output impedance measurements--and yes, those were results right at the output traces, we all know that DC jacks add a few tens of milliohms.

 

But on what basis do you claim that the technique is "almost useless" and "is harmful"?  Noise does not go up with use of the ILIM pins--at least not with how we do it. 

 

My apologies to the thread for the off-topic.  [I am leaving town this morning so will make no further postings to the forum until next week.]

[mourip]

5 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Again, In my humble opinion, ILIM drop compensation is USELESS... I have only following statements from @Superdad
1. Output impedance for LPS 1.2 is a "FEW" mOhms
2. ILIM Circuit is a “easy way to cut the output impedance nearly in half”

So – what is the “few mOhms” in figures??? Should I consider it as 10mOhm with ILIM? And <20mOhm without ILIM? You need to add also 2 connectors and feeder cable resistance and easily can have additional 50-100mOhms impedance at the point of load - difference will be 50 vs 60mOhms or even 100 vs 110mOhms between ILIM/No ILIM options.  

 

Guidelines for this moderated thread are at the at the top of every page.

Lots of space on AS for every type of exploration. Consider starting another thread for technical arguments or else contacting folks by PM?

 

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A word from the OP:  We welcome your participation in this thread. Please note that discussion needs to stay focused on direct listening experiences with audio experiments discussed here. This is not an opinion thread. Most of what is discussed here does not have a readily available analytical explanation. Once we get into arguing about the why's, this thread is going to disintegrate.  If anyone comes in here, makes no contribution, and attacks people, I reserve the right as OP to delete their posts.

 

Further - this thread is about listening impressions. We do not:

• Demand proof
• Require a specific methodology
• Require measurements."

 

[kennyb123]

8 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

I also enjoyed reading your listening impressions here when you're describing the synergy between Wireworld Gold Starlight and Shunyata Research Alpha

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-m-scaler-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.885042/page-590#post-15264585

 

Thanks!  I have yet to mention the OPTO DX here on this thread.  It was most certainly a game changer as far as the interface between the Chord HMS and TT2.  I'm really liking where things landed as far as the BNC cables I'm using on both ends of it.

 

OPTO DX:  https://audiowise-canada.myshopify.com

 

8 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

BTW, do you or any of your buddies nearby have Mutec REF 10 or any kinda 10MHz reference clock? So far nobody actually experimented with replacing a plain vanilla 75Ω clock cable with ODX yet, that's why it might end up to be another surprise.

 

Interesting.  A friend a few hours away does have a dCS Vivaldi with the clock.  He's using Shunyata Sigma clock cables.  I wonder as well if the ODX would be beneficial there.

 

The Chord HMS may be a bit of a strange beast as it uses a FPGA that generates a lot of RF.  The ODX makes a huge difference when used with the HMS for that very reason.  If a particular external clock generates high levels of RF, the ODX may help there too. 

[ray-dude]

The ODX does filter above a particular frequency (it is designed for 768kHz).  TBD whether 10MHz would get passed cleanly.  That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the quality of the clock signal isn't degraded by an electrical to optical to electrical conversion.  Worth a try though.

 

Here is my crazy write up of experiences with the ODX (highly recommended)

 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#review-22155

 

 

[kennyb123]

49 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

Here is my crazy write up of experiences with the ODX (highly recommended)

 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#review-22155

 

 

 

That's a great write-up.  I had read this awhile ago, but I see now that there would be benefit in me going through it again.  I see, for example, that you recommended the LPS-1.2 on the clean side of the ODX as you found it a step up from the PP2 battery.  I did that comparison a few nights ago, but didn't reach the same conclusion.  I should revisit that again.  I had a mishmash of DC cables, but as you report, these can have a very positive impact on things.  I actually found the other night that using a really good DC cable into my TT2 improved the sound more than LPS-1.2 relative to the battery.

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to do such a comprehensive write-up... and for reminding me about it above.

[ray-dude]

Doh!  I meant I recommend the ODX very highly, not that my write up is highly recommended (too late to edit my post...oops).  I'm glad it is helpful to you.

 

Good point on DC cables Ken.  When I did my tests, I had more limited collection to draw from.  It may be worth revisiting now that I've invested in more Ghent DC cables to play around with.

 

[seeteeyou]

Further impressions of ODX (with PP2) below

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-m-scaler-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.885042/page-555#post-15207033

Quote

WOW, this just sounded great, with the OPTO DX just out of the box. The noise floor has gone even lower, mids sound fuller, especially female voices, the bass even a bit tighter, sounstage is slightly larger with better instrument separation. Simply better on all fronts. I never expected M-Scaler and Dave to sound SO good! I could hardly stop listening and spent 6 (!) hours in a row listening.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-m-scaler-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.885042/page-555#post-15209377

Quote

That conclusion is that Dan’s Opto–DX is revelatory in a way I really had (notwithstanding Ray Dude’s meticulous review) not expected. The result is utterly addictive – and, once heard there is no going back.

 

BTW, Dan also tried this Goal Zero Yeti 1000 himself

 

https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-Portable-Generator-Alternative/dp/B074T392CQ

https://www.goalzero.com/shop/power-stations/goal-zero-yeti-1000-lithium-portable-power-station/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-m-scaler-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.885042/page-569#post-15229773

 

LiB-AID E500 for Music should be quite similar with audiophile-quality components, though its 100V output and price tag would be kinda moot

 

https://www.honda.co.jp/battery/music/

https://global.honda/products/motorshow/Tokyo2019/LiB-AID.html

 

I'm just assuming ODX could also work for single coax @ 192kHz and we'll also have twice the filtering with 3 coax cables.

[seeteeyou]

Simply use Google Translate etc.

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=580593531772

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=599790236545

http://www.headphoneclub.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=732326&page=1#pid5039414

Quote

不适用贴片机焊接的话，LT3045手焊上去的每一台声音都不太一样。这也是为什么很多使用过PS100的烧友觉得它声音比UPTONE的LPS-1.2好的原因吧。

 

Only one 5V / 1A output and that's it, not even all that useful but it's kinda interesting to be "energized" by four pieces of 18650 batteries. Not sure about the reliability while shipping batteries could be somewhat tricky.

[Blackmorec]

10 hours ago, ray-dude said:

The ODX does filter above a particular frequency (it is designed for 768kHz).  TBD whether 10MHz would get passed cleanly.  That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the quality of the clock signal isn't degraded by an electrical to optical to electrical conversion.  Worth a try though.

 

Here is my crazy write up of experiences with the ODX (highly recommended)

 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#review-22155

 

 

Hi ray-dude,

Very nice, comprehensive write-up. One quick question. I notice you are using a single LPS1.2 with Ghent Audio Y DC cable to power both ODX clean and dirty sides, but  doesn’t that negate the isolation, providing a copper path between the 2 sides? 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

On 10/24/2019 at 12:17 AM, austinpop said:

One of the reasons I've been posting rather infrequently here is because I was busy with my review of the dCS Bartók, that went live this morning.

 

I mention this here because the Bartók is the first component I've had in my system that was only modestly improved by all the upstream optimization  we've been discovering on this thread. I'd love to see this kind of resilience (and even better) over time, and at lower price points. 

 

Contrary to what many of our naysayers may think, I suspect most of us would be happy to give up upstream tinkering if one day our DACs became completely immune to upstream effects - both good and bad.

 

+1. But it can only be good. 

[RickyV]

On 10/24/2019 at 12:17 AM, austinpop said:

One of the reasons I've been posting rather infrequently here is because I was busy with my review of the dCS Bartók, that went live this morning.

 

😰and maybe testing the ether regen too. 😎

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, RickyV said:

 

😰and maybe testing the ether regen too. 😎

I wish!

[Superdad]

54 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I wish!

 

You know that will happen. Sooner than later.