A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[auricgoldfinger]

27 minutes ago, SwissBear said:

A few hypothesis to take with a heavy grain of salt, as I do not pretend to have competences in the electrical engineering field: 

Could it be that:

• a leakage current is finding its way between the two boxes (MC-3+ USB and Ref-10) in the absence of the Habst grounding cable through the common 'ground', which causes the timing signal (spread between the 'hot' and the 'ground') to be much less readable on the MC-3+ end ?
• in the case of installations where the grounding has been particularly well done or when the MC-3+ USB have been transformed with a LPSU, this leakage current is not flowing there ?
• in which case a simple trick à la @JohnSwenson like this one () could help solve the problem without resorting to expensive cables ?

Again, to take with reservations

 

Interesting hypothesis, especially considering an SMPS is powering the MC-3+.

[auricgoldfinger]

6 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Quick Take: Ref 10 vs. OP-14

 

I picked up @limniscate's Ref 10 yesterday, and after about 24 hours of warm-up in my system, Eric stopped by this afternoon for some listening. I had already cheated, and done some listening last night, after only a few hours of warmup.

 

I used a 50 Ω output (#1) from the Ref 10, and the same Cybershaft 50 Ω 0.5m cable for both clocks, feeding my tX-USBultra. We had no other cables on had hand to compare.

 

Well, I can only confirm what @flkin and @Kritpoon already reported. The Ref 10 is just another level above the OP-14. If you've heard the effect of a reference clock, this is just more of the same. As my teen daughter would jokingly say: "more clockular!" The best analogy is the focus of a camera lens. Going from the OP-14 to the Ref 10, instruments take on an even more realistic dimension, extremely fine details become easier to discern.

 

So Bangkok and Austin both agree - the Ref 10 outperforms the Cybershaft OP-14. No contest. Dang it! 

 

But at least this difference is consistent with the published phase noise specs (Ref 10 has lower phase noise) and price (Ref 10 is pricier). You get what you pay for!

 

 

 

For me, the $64,000 question is how my sCLK-OCX10 (with upgraded Evox capacitors and eABS-200 EMF paper) powered by a Paul Hynes SR5DRXL compares to the REF10 with its slightly lower phase noise at 10Hz and a lesser internal power supply.

[auricgoldfinger]

19 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Road trip! Once you OCX10 is burned in, let's plan a Clock-a-polooza in Austin.

 

When do you get you OCX10?

 

Well, that's a long story.  Due to an issue with the order, I am returning it and awaiting a replacement.  Hopefully, the new unit will be in hand in a couple of weeks.  I don't expect to receive the SR5DRXL until July or August, assuming Paul has no further production hiccups.  Until then, the OCX10 will be powered by an sPS-500.

[auricgoldfinger]

24 minutes ago, mozes said:

My cables are not from SOTM. Steven from Audiosensibility builds them for me. 

 

What is Steven's contact information?

[auricgoldfinger]

7 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi @auricgoldfinger, 

 

Interesting. So on paper at least the sCLK-OCX10 has a theoretical advantage if we assume that the SPS-500 is a better power supply than the built in PSU in the REF10? 

 

Is that a fair interpretation? 

 

Also are the Evox capacitors and EMF paper upgrades something you did yourself or an option to ask SOtM for? 

 

@austinpop - great work as usual Rajiv. Fascinating stuff. Feel like I'm riding on your coat tails somewhat. Just ordered a silver DC cable for my LPS-1.2 to TX-USBultra 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

 

If I remember correctly, someone in the REF10 thread heard an improvement in SQ after modifying his REF10 to be powered his Paul Hynes PSU.  Perhaps the sPS-500 is better than the internal REF10 PSU, but there is no way to know for sure.

 

The Evox capacitors and EMF paper upgrades are something SOtM is doing for me.  There are typically upgrades available that are not mentioned on their site, so it is always a good idea to ask May about additional options. 

 

I had the Evox capacitors installed in the sPS-500 that came with the OCX10, and when I swapped it with the sPS-500 (with standard capacitors) that powers my tX-USBultra, I definitely hear a difference.  The sound is clearer and more open with the Evox capacitors.

 

 

[auricgoldfinger]

6 hours ago, Confused said:

The on-paper specs of the sCLK-OCX10 look superb, no question.  One key differentiator is that the REF10 is square wave and the sCLK-OCX10 is sine wave.  I am sure both will be excellent performers, as to which is best, or what the audible differences might be, I have no idea.  It would be a fascinating comparison.

 

In theory, the actual analog sine wave ought to be superior to a digitally approximated square wave.  In my opinion, it's analogous to the debate over analog vs. digitally reproduced music.  Maybe the analog is superior at the $250,000 system level, but for us mere mortals, there may not be an audible difference.  Even if there is a difference between the REF10 and sCLK-OCX10, it could be a function of phase noise or power supplies and not necessarily the wave type.

[auricgoldfinger]

24 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

BTW - the impact of the silver cable seems to matter what component it's for. In my system, I have always found the PSU (and now the cable) that powers the tX-USBultra immediately prior to the DAC to be the most critical.

 

All the (blind) experiments I did with Eric with PSUs and cables were with the tX-USBultra.

 

Last night, I also experimented with the modded switch further upstream. There too, I had replaced the LPS-1 with the LPS-1.2, and noticed an SQ benefit, although not as pronounced as on the tX-USBultra. On the modded switch, I did not find the silver cable to make as much of a difference, and I'm not convinced I could reliably tell in a blind test.

 

Given that I already have a silver cable on my SR-4 for the tX-USBultra, I am still debating whether to buy a silver cable for my switch PSU. Has anyone found a good priced cable? Zenwave has one for $150 for 0.3m (1 foot). 

 

I believe these are the cables @mozes likes:  http://audiosensibility.com/blog/sotm-audio/#!/Signature-Silver-DC-Cable/p/102414197/category=27007760

 

Ask Steven to terminate however you need.  [email protected]

 

Note the list price is $CAD so your cost is about 80% of that amount in USD.

[auricgoldfinger]

33 minutes ago, zoltan said:

The unit is new but I don't think it would be reasonable to send it back. The unit is working as described and not out of published specs. Also, I'm pretty sure that all tx-USB ultras are the same as I have a feeling that SOtM is sourcing these cables from outside. Like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/U-fl-IPX-Female-RA-to-BNC-female-Nut-bulkhead-RFJumper-1-13mm-Cable-20cm-/330313219623

(except that this is 20cm long and not 40)

 

What is more unsettling is that this cable is a little over 3 dollars. So if a buy a quality clock cable for X hundred dollars, the total value of my clock cable 'door to door' will be X hundred + 3 dollars. I think you get my point. 

 

I had my SMS-200 ultra upgraded to silver cables inside but that doesn't cover the clock cable I believe.  

 

You're correct about the internal silver wire upgrade not covering the clock cable.

 

Your point about the low quality clock cable is quite valid.  Nevertheless, by all reports, the external clock cables still matter. 

[auricgoldfinger]

Since you guys have been offering help to the DIY-challenged, I would appreciate suggestions for my problem.

 

I always used an LPS-1 set at 7v to power my sMS-200ultra set at 9v and never had a problem.  @MayfromSOtMtold me it was a bad idea, so I opened the case and changed the jumpers.  In the process, I also dislodged a cable and had to return the unit to Korea for repair.

 

When I recently tried to open the case to change the voltage setting back to 9v, I discovered the screws are now too tight for me to unscrew them.  The price of this discovery was damaged threads on 2 screws.  May has been completely uncooperative in helping me and refuses to even acknowledge that they made the screws too tight.  (Never mind the fact that I was able to open the unit once before, or that I also opened my sPS-500 and tX-USBultra without incident.)  Even if I were to spend the $100-150 to return it to Korea, there is a high likelihood they won't fix it given May's lack of cooperation to this point.

 

Does anyone have suggestions for getting the screws out that don't involve a drill?

 

[auricgoldfinger]

1 minute ago, zoltan said:

What is too tight is quite subjective. Probably you didn't have the right tool with enough torque. At the same time, I must say that I had the same problem last week when opening my tx-USB ultra to change the voltage. Earlier the SMS-200 ultra opened so easily that this time I was even thinking of giving up and just use 9V for now. Then with all my effort I finally managed to unscrew all screws but my wrist was hurting for a while after that. But I must say I also didn't have the right tool. It was a small 4-5 inch long screwdriver with exchangeable heads. With a proper screwdriver with the right head, it would have been easier.

 

This doesn't help you of course but as I was initially stuck with the opening I checked a few videos on Youtube what to do. A few of them suggested using WD40 or better even some 'screw loosening spray' that after some time would leak into between the screw and the thread if you leave it in a vertical position. (Make sure it doesn't go on electric parts inside.) Then it will be easier to remove the screws. But with the top of the screws damaged already, I'm not sure that it's gonna be enough.  

 

I was using a Torx 8 screwdriver recommended by SOtM.  I'll look into screw loosening sprays.  Thanks for the suggestions.

[auricgoldfinger]

23 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I would love to hear other voices reviewing the SR-4. Did I miss it, or am I the only one who has had anything to say about it?

 

Come on, people!

 

You set the bar very high for reviews, so we are all a little intimidated. 

[auricgoldfinger]

11 minutes ago, Ben2300 said:

5. Price at $999 w $200 master clock option

 

You're probably in the right ballpark

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, Bruce Orr said:

I am having two dedicated lines installed. Currently waiting for Jim Weil to secure the AWG 6 wire he recommends.

 

How long is your run?

[auricgoldfinger]

41 minutes ago, Bruce Orr said:

Ah, that is a good question - at least from a cost perspective.  From my main electrical box thru the attic and down to the audio devices is 70-80 feet!  The cost of AWG #6/3 is about $20/foot, so I am going to use that for one of the dedicated lines that will power all audio, except my sub-woofer. The other will use standard #10g solid core, which is what Jim said was the second-best conductor (and much less expensive) to drive the woofer.  The lines will run at least 6 inches apart from start to finish using a custom Hessell 2-plug outlet from Jim. I'm not exactly sure what secret sauce he adds to the outlet.

 

Sounds like his new source is charging him more.  When I inquired several months ago, it was $10/foot.

[auricgoldfinger]

13 hours ago, elan120 said:

Clock cable from txUSBUltra to different clock destination clock points does make a difference.

 

What BNC cables have you tried, and which is your favorite?

[auricgoldfinger]

Just now, elan120 said:

I am still using SOtM BNC cable, but plan to try some other cables once I have the power supply settled.  The cable I did try was swapping out the stock SMB cables to Pasternack RG316DS, and like it better, but not sure if that is due to this being a different cable, shorter, or both.

 

Have you receive your sCLK-OCX10 back?

 

I'm expecting to get the sCLK-OCX10 by the end of this week.  Sadly, the sPS-500 that came with it failed while powering my tX-USBultra, so I'm short a power supply at the moment and won't be able to use the sCLK-OCX10 until I get a replacement sPS-500.

[auricgoldfinger]

26 minutes ago, str-1 said:

Has anyone been able to compare the sCLK-OCX10 with the Mutec Ref 10?  They are roughly tne same price in the UK (assuming the sCLK-OCX10 can still be bought with the free sPS-500) but the Mutec looks the neater option with its built-in linear power supply and with both 50 ohm and 75 ohm outputs.

 

I need to decide over the few days whether to return my tX-USBultra, which doesn’t have a masterclock input, for one that does.  I’m impressed enough with the sound quality improvements to own it in one form or another but now think that paying a little extra for the masterclock input might be the wiser thing to do.

 

I can't give a comparison but want to point out that SOtM can do both 50 ohm and 75 ohm outputs on the same sCLK-OCX10.  You just have to request whatever combination of outputs you'd like when placing the order.  I have two of each on mine.

[auricgoldfinger]

5 hours ago, str-1 said:

Thanks, I didn’t know that.  Two of each seems like a good idea.  

 

Also, I now see that the SOtM boxes are much smaller than the Mutec and probably carry little or no penality in terms of space requirements in my vertical equipment rack.  Do you think it would be ok to stack the sCLK-OCX10 and sPS-500 (and which way round), or any 1+2 combination including the tX-USBultra, or would resulting increase in interference negate any benefits to be gained from shortest possible cables?

 

Finally, and the most important question of all, just how big an improvement can I expect from using an sCLK-OCX10/sPS-500 combo with my SR4-powered tX-USBultra inbetween my Zenith SE and Chord Blu 2/DAVE?  Thanks.

 

I have seen 2 or 3 posts from sCLK-OCX10/sPS-500 owners who are very happy with the combination.  Here is one owner who also happens to stack his 5 SOtM devices. 

 

 

 

As for my situation, SOtM's failure to follow my order instructions resulted in a problem with my first sCLK-OCX10.  Thankfully, I had placed the order through Crux Audio, and when SOtM was atypically unhelpful, Kamal stepped in to rectify the problem himself.  However, I still have not received the replacement unit, so I am unable offer my own listening impressions.

 

I have considered stacking my devices like @ronfint but probably won't do so unless I have space constraints.  I share your concern about interference, but there is really no way to know without doing a comparison.

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

I wish that's just nothing more than April's Fool but apparently it's Con Te Partirò for real this time

 

https://www.oppodigital.com/farewell.aspx

 

Oppo Shock: Popular AV Brand Announces That 'It's Time To Say Goodbye'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/04/02/oppo-shock-popular-av-brand-announces-that-its-time-to-say-goodbye/

 

Oppo Digital Pulls The Plug, Interdyn Already Planning Ahead

https://www.channelnews.com.au/oppo-digital-pulls-the-plug-interdyn-already-planning-ahead/

 

You better hurry up and buy yours. 

[auricgoldfinger]

4 hours ago, str-1 said:

Suspecting that the answer is still ‘no’, I’m wondering if anyone has had chance to compare the Mutec Ref 10 with the sCLK-OCX10?  I need to take a decision on ordering an sCLK-OCX10 very quickly if I’m to benefit from a free sPS-500.

 

I would also be interested in any comparison of the sCLK-OCX10 with standard caps vs Evox caps.  May has told me that the difference that can be heard from the Evox caps is more about a change in character (e.g. more energy) than any technical improvement (though to some, more energy would be just that).  I’m not sure that I need more energy with Chord Blu 2/DAVE at the heart of my system.

 

I have two sPS-500's, one with the Evox caps and the other without.  When powering a tX-USBultra, I prefer the supply with the Evox caps.  The sound is more open as if a veil were lifted.  I didn't spend time doing a more detailed analysis because the difference was quite obvious when I first made the substitution.

 

I'm not really sure what May means by more energy, but it's hard for me to imagine why better caps would be detrimental to an audio device, and particularly, a reference clock.  I have never heard anyone complain after upgrading caps.

[auricgoldfinger]

I also am not technical, but as I mentioned earlier...

 

2 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

it's hard for me to imagine why better caps would be detrimental to an audio device, and particularly, a reference clock.  I have never heard anyone complain after upgrading caps.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help.  My sCLK-OCX10 with Evox caps and eABS-200 is scheduled to arrive on Monday.  This will be my 3rd unit because SOtM has screwed up my order twice!  Hopefully, this one will be configured to my specifications and will also work properly. 

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

I hope you don't mind me asking, but can I ask how much the Evox caps mod costs?  In your case did you order as a modified unit, or was it a case of you sending you existing sPS-500 back to SOtM for the upgrade?

 

I don't mind.  SOtM charges $125 per device for the Evox caps.  I ordered both my sCLK-OCX10 and sPS-500 with Evox caps as modified units.  I would send my other sPS-500 back to Korea for an upgrade if the shipping cost alone weren't $150-175 for the round trip.

[auricgoldfinger]

3 minutes ago, mozes said:

For the DC cables, I am using 16AWG UPOCC silver 50cm that Steven at Audiosensibility built for me. 

 

Those cables sound amazing on both the sPS-500 and the LPS-1.2.  I have gone through a fair number of DC cables, and these are the best.

[auricgoldfinger]

Anyone who is considering buying a sCLK-OCX10, please see my comments on the dCBL-BNC cable before making a purchase decision.

 

 

[auricgoldfinger]

I decided to swap out the silver DC cable powering my sMS-200ultra for a copper cable, and I have now toned down the HF glare considerably.  I need to spend more time evaluating before making a definitive judgment.

 

I will say that the sCLK-OCX10 sounds very good in my system when the HF glare is reduced.