A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[tapatrick]

3 minutes ago, Advieira said:

 

I really want to know how the impact of LPS and fanless NUC7 to SQ compared with stock power supply and fan. I have a slight mistrust that should not be too much ...

Better psus (in my case PH SR4s) and  fanless cases brought major improvements to my NUC server and endpoint. Most listenening reports confirm this. 

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1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Great segueway into something I’ve been wanting to post for a while. Network tuning. 

 

 

Great report @Blackmorec thanks for posting!

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On 1/26/2019 at 9:15 PM, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Here are 2 screenshots that will hopefully explain what I am doing.  In Device Setup, note the area inside the red box, which shows where I have set DSP volume.  The volume limits are immediately below.  I accepted the default values, but perhaps they can be changed elsewhere.  In my case, the volume limits are the same for both Device and DSP.

 

 

 

I have DSP enabled so that I can equalize a single band using Parametric EQ.  This is shown below.

 

 

I suspect this is definitely a situation where YMMV.   Let me know if you have more questions. 

 

EDIT: 

 

Here is one more screen shot with the volume shown.  If you click on DSP, it will take you to all the settings.

 

 

Thanks for suggesting, I'm giving it a try for a day or two by setting preamp to 100 on my PS Audio Junior DAC. I always assumed fixed was better. Not a major change - but does sound very nice, and possibly better which I wasn't expecting. 

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4 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Credit really goes to @EnjoyTheMusicNow for bringing it up.  My only contribution was the screen shots. 

Thanks @EnjoyTheMusicNow  for sharing...

 

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1 hour ago, flkin said:

Please be very careful when you set your pre-amp to 100%!  😮

 

Very easy to blow up your speakers and ears if you are not careful...

Of course! Thanks. Only doing this to use the volume in Roon.  It’s also fairly common to set the DS Junior to 100 if using a separate preamp. 

[tapatrick]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:49 PM, tapatrick said:

Thanks for suggesting, I'm giving it a try for a day or two by setting preamp to 100 on my PS Audio Junior DAC. I always assumed fixed was better. Not a major change - but does sound very nice, and possibly better which I wasn't expecting. 

After a few days back and forth testing software volume in Roon versus fixed volume, I'm staying with fixed as this sounds cleaner, other wise hard to tell any difference.

[tapatrick]

7 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

 

Having been monitoring this thread for quite some time now and noticed the recent decline in NUC related posts, I'm wondering if the dust has finally started to settle a little?

I have been listening to music!

 

These are my brief answers to your questions based on my experiments and extensive listening. Other opinions may vary, but I believe there is a strong consensus on the basics as I studied this thread before committing to the AL NUC route and there is no looking back.

 

What are the most suitable NUC endpoints at the current time?

NUC7CJYH makes an excellent endpoint.

 

Whether to fit SSD/HDD, or non at all?

Definitely would not recommend any on the endpoint

 

The optimum amount of memory (ram)?

I tried 4gb and 8gb on the endpoint - 4gb is enough for running roonbridge

16gb is needed for the server

 

Can optane be used with the NUC and what difference does it make?

On the server yes, but I have not used one as I prefer no drives attached

 

Is the endpoint NUC more important than the server end?

Yes in my opinion but an NUC server adds an important improvement too

I have the NUC7PJYH as my server which is very reliable and has been running for a few months with out issue

 

I'm wanting to run AL from memory (boot from memory with a USB memory stick) F.Y.I.

If it turns out to be amazing I would even consider a fanless case as well.

All 3 are highly recommended - Yes to AL Ramboot, yes to booting from an USB stick then remove, yes definitely to a fanless case.

 

Hope this helps!

What are you waiting for

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6 hours ago, davide256 said:

A question;  Can you confirm that you are using 2 x 8gb in a 7PJYH server and how much RAM  that is using? I'd just like to be sure

that its actually usable to AL in the 7PJYH before buying another 8gb of RAM to experiment with.

 

I didn't bother with trialing the 7PJYH as a server because Intel's stated memory limit is 8gb and  I had assumed this was an addressable memory limit of the Pentium processor.

much prefer running LXQT/Roonserver in RAM on the server end.

 

FWIW the NUC 7CJYH still appears to be out of stock at retailers, believe this has been so since December

Yes I'm using 2x 8gb, see below.. it might work on 8gb but its tight. I wanted to allow for growth of my roon database. The intel spec does say 8gb max but I found a report in a forum stating it is okay with 16gb so I went ahead.

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17 hours ago, mourip said:

 

Glad to hear that someone else likes the Omegas. I have a pair of the Omega Audio Super Alnico High Output XRS have been extremely pleased with them.

I have pair of the Omega Super Alnicos also and love the sound. They are the only part of my system I never think of changing.

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17 minutes ago, bobfa said:

I had only tried isolating cores for a couple of days.  My results echo your statement above.  I did not test long enough.  When I messed with the NUC doing this I had done a couple of other things and there were too many changes so I backed them all off and had not gotten back to isolation yet.  There were some recent changes to the AL menu for isolation that I want to understand and go back and try after I complete my server testing.

Likewise I’ve been trying to get iso cores on my end point and have given up as can’t get it to work. I did get it successfully set up on my server okay with good SQ improvement but not sure why it won’t work on endpoint. 

 

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On 4/2/2019 at 8:00 PM, mourip said:

 you then start hearing recording imperfection and THAT rabbit hole is too vast to even contemplate.

I find recording quality more of an issue these days after setting up AL/NUC server and endpoint and I put more attention on choosing good recordings over tweaking. 

 

Watch developments at PS audio as Paul is bringing audiophile attention to the recording process....

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13 hours ago, mourip said:

 

Your system and mine probably have some similar qualities. We both have Topaz isolation, use Roon with AL, vacuum tube amps, and Omega Alnico speakers.

 

Ironically many of my favorite recordings are from the "Golden Age of Stereo" including RCA, Mercury, and Everest for classical and various other 50's and 60's jazz labels.

😎

yes indeed agreed about the golden age. We must have a similar taste and sound. It’s a big subject (unless we are only listening to live unrecorded music) and I’m not doing it justice by a short post but with this current set up (like yours) I am genuinely surprised by the variation in recording quality between one album and another. Previously I would have assumed my system wasn’t ‘there’ yet but now I know it’s mostly in recording quality.

 

Given how much time and money we all spend on improving our systems it’s still one part of the chain.  I think what PS audio is doing by focusing on recording electronics is very interesting. Maybe a small step now but hopefully will have a larger impact down the road. 

 

As as mentioned in an exchange earlier with @lmitche live recordings are especially magic due to the ability of the AL/NUC combo to extract dynamics and ambience from the recordings. 

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On 12/10/2018 at 5:44 PM, seeteeyou said:

A123 LiFePO4 batteries are well known for their quality, that's why Ian Canada's latest project might do the trick when we're powering multiple units of NUC

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/327105-develop-ultra-capacitor-power-supply-lifepo4-battery-power-supply-31.html#post5623486

 

Just back from a few weeks away for work and catching up on developments here. Also today I had time to complete a new power supply I wanted to try out. It's Ian Canada's new LifePO4 power supply which includes 2x isolated 13.2v DC outputs (among the 5 possible rails) and I was interested to try this to power my 2 NUCs with a higher voltage than my SR4s can supply.

 

First impressions are this is an excellent solution. More punch, dynamics and a very clean sound, so this is a keeper for me. The board is $189.99 and the A123 26650 LifePO4 batteries are extra. This project involves DIY and some soldering but a is a very nice, relatively low cost and worthwhile option for powering NUCs. There is a Mk II version of the board now available.

 I am not affiliated with Ian Canada just sharing what I have found. For more info see DiyAudio thread: 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/327105-develop-ultra-capacitor-power-supply-lifepo4-battery-power-supply.html
 

"This LifePO4 pure battery power supply is a completed solution to provide battery based clean power voltage rails. When it's turned off, all batteries will be charged automatically. The charging progress is managed and monitored by Smart battery management. Comparing with an active power supply such as a voltage regulator, it has much better load transient response and less noise. Includes five independent voltage rails - 2x 3.3V isolated voltage rails. 2x 3.3V-13.2V isolated voltage rails, which can be configured as 3.3V, 6.6V, 9.9V or 13.2V separately. 1x 5V 2A linear LT3042 regulated non-isolated rail."

 

Now I have 2x SR4s to repurpose for other tasks! 

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10 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

@tapatrick:  Ian Canada's LiFePO4 power supply looks like a great solution.  At what post number or date in that thread are the latest details on how to purchase the board from him?  (It's a very long thread to wade through.)  Tnx!

Hi Bob. At the bottom of each of Ian’s posts is a link to his group buy with instructions.

 

For general info -  as with all power supply projects every care must be taken when handling and assembling this board. 10 A113 batteries pack a punch and every precaution must be followed to prevent shorting. Probably not one for beginners. 

[tapatrick]

4 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

 

Thanks!  I didn’t figure out that the "GB2019" link meant "group buy".

 

Skimming the instruction manual, it looks like there is no possible configuration for paralleling batteries.  The A123 batteries are rated at 2.5 amp-hours.  Since my e32 DAC draws 1.5A at 12 v, it would run only 2 hours on battery power.  Doesn’t seem like a practical solution for my DAC.

Yes you are correct Bob. I'm still experimenting and will report back when I've had some more more time to test out, so it may not be a practical solution. However the improvement in sound is remarkable...

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30 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Yes you are correct Bob. I'm still experimenting and will report back when I've had some more more time to test out, so it may not be a practical solution. However the improvement in sound is remarkable...

to add...However the improvement in sound is remarkable, and this definitely worth considering for other low current devices as there are 5 rails to play with.

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5 hours ago, bobfa said:

Seems like we need a "current summary of findings". 

Yes please!

 

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42 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

I would do everything I can to replace the second USB cable with uptone PCB .

it is one of the best and chepest  upgrades you can get.

 

Yes. Highly recommended if you can work it: USPCB>Isoregen>USPCB>DAC. But beware it can put a lot of pressure on connectors/plugs. I damaged my IsoR by breaking traces inside due to tension this way but managed to repair it. 

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Just now, tapatrick said:

Yes. Highly recommended if you can work it: USPCB>Isoregen>USPCB>DAC. But beware it can put a lot of pressure on connectors/plugs. I damaged my IsoR by breaking traces inside due to tension this way but managed to repair it. 

However I find an Isoregen into a Sonore Ultradigital for I2S into my PS Audio DAC even better. 

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1 hour ago, AnotherSpin said:

....I've been communicating with Mr.Hynes couple of times by email, he is answering very fast (after couple of hours) with all required info/details. Last exchange of mails happened couple of weeks ago....

Lucky you. This would be the exception rather that the rule these days.. I have emailed multiple times and received no replies. Last year my experience was more like yours i.e. replies within a few hours.

[tapatrick]

7 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

I can not comment on this. Maybe, try fewer mails?) Be kind, it moves mountains.

Thanks for the advice. I am very kind and always encourage others to do like wise... .

 

Anyways I have reluctantly had to move on from PH's great SR4s since not getting any response  (I have 2x 12v max ones, and wanted to buy a 19v version). I  have since found John Kenny's Ciunas Supercaps 7v PSU to be equal (i.e. effect on SQ) in quality to the SR4 driving a Sonore Ultradigital. I tried John's 5v Supercaps PSU powering my Aqvox switch which convinced me they are equal to the SR4. John is developing a variable 3amp 12-25v version which I will be trying out when it is available.

[tapatrick]

5 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Here's a little something from Brent Rowe and I found some pictures on his site that looked fairly close to Studer 900

 

https://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/customer-choice-psus-271-c.asp

https://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/digital-psus-dacs-285-c.asp

Thanks C2. Great find which I didn’t know about in the UK. 

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A tale of SQ updates.

 

I have followed this thread since the beginning and implemented many of the discoveries kindly shared here - especially spending a lot of time tweaking and testing PSUs and NUC/AL setups. Eventually I settled on an NUC/AL Roon endpoint with IsoRegen out to a Sonore Ultradigital giving I2S into my PS Audio Junior DAC.

 

I went back to my Antipodes DXe Server as my source because I was having too much trouble with dropouts etc on an NUC/AL roon core and ran out of patience....  plus my wife gave up trying to listen to music!

 

Anyways I have been satisfied with this setup as I had achieved what I was seeking - great detail and micro detail, natural sound, wide deep soundstage and ambience, without harshness and have been happily listening to great sounding music without hitches for some time. Until an unexpected upheaval occurred and to the point of this post.

 

Being and owner of a PS Audio Dac we get regular software updates, so I loaded up the latest version 'Windom' on the weekend. Everything changed. After 24 hours or so I had to re-evaluate everything about my system as the SQ had changed so much. The software revealed much more more detail from the the music and from my system - exposing a level of harshness that I could not stand.

 

The software upgrade is remarkably revealing and is now exposing limitations elsewhere. After much experimenting I simply ended up with just a USB cable from my server to the DAC, restoring once again a very full, natural SQ with all the detail - everything the NUC and add ons etc were supplying.

 

I'm not sure where this leaves me and I will be doing more experimenting but this has certainly been an unexpected shift.

 

[tapatrick]

5 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

By "my server" do you mean the NUC or the Antipodes DXe?

Antipodes Dxe

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1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

And that sounds much better than your NUC directly connected with USB to your DAC? And it sounds better than your NUC USB --> IsoRegen --> DAC? I am just trying to understand if your USB started to sound better than you I2S or your Antipodes Dxe sounds better than your NUC. How do you power the NUC?

Yes my Antipodes Dxe with just usb cable to my Dac. However I’m still evaluating as it’s such a shock.

 

I found that taking out all the spaghetti and add ons including NUC endpoint running AL ramboot, Isoregen and the Ultradigital all powered by PH SR4s got me back to a SQ that was equally detailed but without the harsh edge that had appeared. I cannot stand any edgeiness.

 

The Dac software upgrade (and its FREE) is such a shift that my whole system has been reconfigured.