Jump to content
IGNORED

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


Message added by The Computer Audiophile

Important and useful information about this thread

Posting guidelines

History and index of useful posts

Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

  • Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer

 

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

With a 12 volt Sigma 11 based lps to power 2 lps-1s  the difference in SQ is significant here. The B&K 1604a IT powers the Sigma 11 lps with a Supra AC cable.

 

Rajiv, what I last read of your opinion on the B&K was that it may have made a slight difference, but was hard to tell.  Are you now finding it makes a significant improvement?  I'm sure you've also read about the Topaz and I suspect you chose the B&K for the smaller size and no hum.  Can you confirm please?

 

Larry, are you also using a B&K and if so what are your findings?

Link to comment
1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Johnseye, from the wall I've got a 1000 watt balanced power transformer with a built in power strip. From there four floating neutral isolation transformers, either a B&K or a modded Tripplite are used to power the digital components.  The Tripplites take the heavier loads.

 

Damn.  Nice.  Who modded the Tripplite's and what models?

Have you compared the difference by plugging your components into an outlet not powered by your transformer?

Link to comment
17 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I typically think of "thin" as the absence of weight or tonal density.

 

I totally agree about the more precise sound, but at the same time I tend to hear an increase in tonal density as a result.

 

The terms I'd probably use instead of "thin" to describe what I hear as a system gets better are "more focused" or "less smeared".  

 

Words that come to mind specific to more focused or less smeared are "defined" and "clear or clarity".  As in, I can hear an instrument clearly now, it is more defined when with the other component it fell into the background, or was hidden.

 

Thin to me at least is different than this.  However it often accompanies clarity.  It's what I first heard when I changed amps or speaker wire.  The interesting thing is that that thinness tends to disappear as I become accustom to the sound and just the clarity remains.

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I believe than burning in of equipment is important, however I also know that I have to get used to a new/better sound. I think at a subconscious level our brain needs some burning in as well. 

 

For sure.  If you'v ever lived near a train it's incredibly noisy when you first move in.  Not long after you hardly notice it's there.  Our brains become accustom to things and sounds is no exception.  That example also shows how you can leave an environment and come back experiencing the same effect.  Not until you consciously compare to listening situations and "pay attention" to the differences do they become noticeable again.  It's great that some vendors give you 30 days to trial.  If you can put enough time into a component to where you become used to its sound, then change things up again, then you'll get a more accurate understanding of what it will be like burned in.

 

To add to that, anything that draws your attention away from the characteristic of the component or music, such as reading, drinking liquor, eating, talking, and even thinking will alter your perception.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Looks like Sonore has stepped up its game with mR 1.4, the UltraRendu, and the Signature Rendu.

 

I also see some push back regarding the clock chain approach some of us have tried here with the sCLK-EX gear, and soon, with reference 10MHz clocks. That's cool, since most of what we're hearing (especially with the reclocked switch) really don't fit any known paradigms.

 

All that said, I plan to stay out of the debates about "which is/should be better" and why. These are pointless discussions for me. I would rather see people do actual listening comparisons.

 

I have no plans to buy either, but would always welcome a loan of either the UR or the SSR from any interested parties who would like to see the comparison.

 

Or - bring your gear to Austin, TX, where we now have 2 of us with Ultra setups.

 

Where did this come from?  I've just been reading about the IR and USB cables in this thread for days.  Has someone brought up the mR/uR somewhere?

Link to comment
3 hours ago, austinpop said:

Hey folks,

 

The index for this massive topic is now (mostly) complete. Take a look at the first post.

 

Two points to make:

  1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.
  2. Since the topics of mobo mods, SATA improvements, and Adnaco were not in my area of interest, I did not cover these. If someone would volunteer to create the index for these sections, I would gladly accept their input.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

 

Did you guys compare the ultra sms 200 to your nodded sms 200?  I didn't see that indexed and I'm wondering if it would be better to mod mine and a switch with a TX or buy a new ultra and use one of its clocks for a switch.

Link to comment
8 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Have you seen the size of this thread? Do you seriously expect an index with that level of detail? 

 

I condensed the listening impressions to a very manageable list. All you have to do is click through them and in short order you will find that the answer to your question is in there.

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I apologize for my slightly testy response earlier.

 

I think experiment 4 in this post addresses your question:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-the-sms-200-and-microrendu/?do=findComment&comment=686596

 

If you already own an original SMS-200, I highly recommend the trifecta of tX-USBultra, modded sMS, and modded switch. Run the lot with 2 LPS-1s and you're all set.

 

13 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

  1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

 

 

I appreciate the apology.  I've thanked you for your efforts multiple times in this thread and in PMs.  Others have provided you with countless gratitude.  But you specifically said in bold "If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me." Well I didn't do it in a PM but consider that a nomination.  I looked for it, not just in the index, but couldn't find it.  I didn't look hard enough but it's a large thread and this was also a question because I didn't recall a definitive conclusion.  Not sure why the testy response.  I mean if I flamed you or something sure, but I just asked an honest question.  If this stresses you out, don't ask for it or don't mod the thread.  I think all of us at CA would be disappointed but I wouldn't let a self elected undertaking get to me.  I also noted some stress in an earlier thread of yours about the ultra Rendu and posted about it.  You didn't reply but I could tell you were stressed.  Remember this is a hobby.  It's fun.  We're all here to share ideas, collaborate and help learn.  It's not a job and you can walk away any time.

 

The link you just posted is what I was looking for.  #6 also gives good info.  For anyone with an existing sMS-200 it's a serious question to consider and one I'm sure you yourself have done; to upgrade or modify.  Worthy of an index link imho.  From the post you linked it appears that there was no difference.  This tells me I can add a tx, mod my 200 and a switch and not miss anything from the ultra 200.  What isn't clear to me is whether in this comparison there was a tx involved.  Can you please confirm?  You refer to it as a bifecta.  I don't recall so please don't attack me for asking, but did you not mod your 200 and switch with a tx or was it with an sclk?

Link to comment
1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

I'm not sure I understand. What exactly are you nominating? The link I posted and referenced to you is in the index already, under the heading "@austinpop Ultra-vaganza Report."

 

By "nominate a post," I mean a post on this thread that is not already in the index.

 

BTW - for anyone nominating a post, please also give me a phrase or caption describing the essence of the post.

 

Imagine you're someone who hasn't been following this thread for months.  You look at the index.  Would you know what the Ultravaganza is?  I've been following and I didn't connect Ultravaganza with my inquiry.  Most of your index is specific, this test was not specifically identified.  Maybe put a label like "modded sMS-200 vs Ultra sMS200 with modded switch"?  People also won't know what an "ultra trifecta" is unless they've already read how you defined it, and even then they'd have to remember what three components were involved.  Another point of clarification.

 

I think each one of your testing efforts warrants its own index entry specific to the test conducted.

 

But before you respond...

"Have you seen the size of this thread? Do you seriously expect an index with that level of detail? 

I condensed the listening impressions to a very manageable list. All you have to do is click through them and in short order you will find that the answer to your question is in there."

...it's just a suggestion.

 

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

I am having a hard time understanding your question. I think you're asking how did I run a "bifecta" if the tX is providing the clock? The answer is:

  • yes, since the tX contains the clock board, it must be powered on (and obviously connected) via the clock cables
  • without the above, the modded sMS and switch will not function
  • however, you can always bypass the tX on the signal path. So you can go switch > sMS > DAC, bypassing the tX
  • The tX is still on and providing the clock, it's just not in the signal path.

 

You got it. I didn't know you could bypass the tx on the path.

Link to comment
22 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Your going to criticize the person willing to take the time to do any indexing?   I didn't see anyone else trying to take on the endeavor?  I'm sure Rajiv would be more than happy to relinquish the position.

 

I didn't criticize anyone, where did you read into that? Not in any of my statements did I criticize him or his efforts. In fact pointed out my gratitude. Since when does making a suggestion qualify as a criticism? Should I send a box of candy and flowers along with a suggestion to make it sweet? 

 

Edit: if one can't make suggestions for improvement or not offer challenges to stated fact where does that get anyone? Should everyone be a yes man offering an atta boy! Should one be surrounded by those who agree, only to never learn beyond their particular scope? If you call it criticizim, I call it constructive. Unless you're a little girl needing to be coddled, try to learn from different points of view. 

 

Good grief, lighten up. I asked one simple question and look what it's blown up into. 

 

Quote

 

For myself, I could give a hoot to the indexing, since I've followed the thread from day one and have little need to refer back to previous posts.  This is a fast moving love and yesterdays love is just that.  Of course anyone can stop and snuggle with the one they love, until the bug bites again. 

 

Brilliant you are. 

Link to comment

 

30 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

Is there a disadvantage when using a Y dc cable connecting two devices from 1 power supply or rail? Sotm sells these Y dc cables with their sps500 power supply.

 

Yes.  According to Paul Hynes...

 

"I would not recommend powering two items of equipment from one power supply as this will create a ground loop through the DC leads and the equipment interconnect. This will allow the ground return current from both items of equipment to mix and it will cause signal inter-modulation that is usually audible especially on a transparent system."

Link to comment
5 hours ago, amir57bs said:

My order accepted by Paul after checking FC9 termal capacity by Him for 3 output:

 

SR7DRMR3XLFC9 (DR version, XL Version)
—» output 1:  12v  ,   10A module
—» output 2:  9v   ,    6A  module
—» output 3:  5v   ,    6A  module

FC9 Streacom (silver no optical slot)  (SKU: ST-FC9S-ALPHA  EAN: 8718469091010)

DC Cables:
60cm DC10FSXL (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.5mm ID DC adaptor jack (12v)
60cm DC6FSXL  (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.1mm ID DC adaptor jack (9v)
60cm DC6FSXL  (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.1mm ID DC adaptor jack (5v)

 

:D awesome

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/3/2017 at 0:11 PM, austinpop said:

 

That review certainly matches the findings on this thread. It's too bad they didn't think to try an sCLK-EX modded switch.

 

Thanks for update! The sPS-500 is sounding like a winner. I guess it was only a matter of time before an audiophile SMPS would be going head to head with the best LPSes out there.

 

I don't claim to be an expert and I own LPSUs, but I value this company's expertise.

 

AUDIO MYTH - "SWITCHING POWER SUPPLIES ARE NOISY"

 

Here's a snipit from Benchmark's site:

 

THIS MYTH GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS:

 

"Switching supplies are noisy."

"Linear power supplies are best for audio."

 

We disagree!

About 5 years ago, Benchmark stopped putting linear power supplies into our new products, and we replaced them with switching power supplies. We did this because linear supplies are too noisy. Yes, you read that correctly, linear supplies are noisy! A well-designed switching power supply can be much quieter than a linear supply.

 

LINEAR POWER SUPPLIES CAUSE HUM

The noise problem is due to the fact that linear power supplies have large transformers and other magnetic components that operate at the AC line frequency (50 Hz to 60 Hz). These line frequencies are audible, and we are all too familiar with the hum and buzz that audio products can produce. It is no secret that this noise is caused by the power supply, but few people understand why it can be so hard to eliminate. Most people think that hum is caused by conducted interference (AC ripple on the power supply rails), but this is rarely the case. Most AC hum is caused by magnetic interference, and this can be very hard to eliminate.

 

HUM IS USUALLY CAUSED BY MAGNETIC INTERFERENCE

Transformers are magnetic devices. Power is magnetically transmitted between a transformer's input and output windings. In a linear supply, power is transmitted from the AC line side of a transformer to the low-voltage secondary side using an AC line-frequency magnetic field. Unfortunately, transformers are never perfect, and some energy always escapes through stray magnetic fields. These stray fields can interfere with virtually every electrical conductor in an audio product. Magnetic shielding is expensive and it has limited effectiveness when sensitive circuits are located in close proximity to a strong field.

 

POWER AMPLIFIERS ARE THE WORST OFFENDERS

The power supplies in high power devices, such as audio power amplifiers, can emit very strong magnetic fields. These strong fields tend to limit the noise performance (SNR) of power amplifiers. These magnetic fields can also cause interference with audio products that happen to be too near the amplifier. Audio cables that enter, exit, or pass near the amplifier may also pick up unwanted hum and buzz. For this reason, it is usually very important to keep the power amplifier well separated from cables and other components in the audio system.

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Very interesting! I was the happy owner of a Benchmark DAC2 HDR for a couple of years, so I too value their expertise.

 

It just goes to show that one shouldn't cling to any given technology dogmatically, but rather keep an open mind and ears.

 

The DAC3 is out which I'm going to have to give an audition.

 

Here's some other interesting info from that page.  The mention of filtering out interference made me think of Lee at SOtM's comments about his preference toward filtering.

 

OUT-OF-BAND NOISE

One major advantage of switching supplies is that the operating frequency is above the range of human hearing. If interference occurs, it will not cause audible interference. This interference can even be removed with a filter without infringing on the audio band. But, the power supply in the AHB2 is so quiet that we do not need to filter the audio output. The AHB2 delivers a 200 kHz bandwidth without evidence of any significant switching noise, to a measurement limit of 500 kHz.

 

and perhaps why SOtM is not using a linear supply:

 

"Please note that magnetic interference is radiated not conducted. This means that is cannot be removed with filter capacitors. Adding filters to a linear supply will not remove the hum and buzz from a power amplifier."

 

After the switching vs linear video is a star quad cable comparison.  Interesting to hear how magnetic interference effects sound.

 

 

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

Here's something for people to obsess about.  :D

 

Platinum Starlight is Wireworld's top-of-the-line ethernet cable. Patent-pending, triple-shielded Tite-Shield design technology is the same as Starlight, only this cable features OCC-7N Solid Silver conductors, the highest grade, most conductive metal in the world. Fast and flawless 40 Gbit/sec @ 30 meters provides  maximum fidelity.

http://www.wireworldcable.com/hi-res-digital-audio-cables.html#ethernet

 

Not at that price point.  For me personally, that money could be better invested elsewhere.

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/20/2017 at 7:30 PM, austinpop said:

This is going to be a long 2-3 weeks.

 

@Bamber's ISO-Regen is on its way back. My Ultra trifecta is on its way to May to be retrofitted with the SMB connectors, and a master reference clock input on the tX-USBultra.

 

In the meantime, I am using "just" this chain:

- Roon core bridged > mR > Lush USB > DAC.

 

This was state of the art just a year ago. Now - wow, how much further we've come!

 

Hope @Superdad hits his Aug 24 target for my own ISO-R that's on order, so I can at least get some of the magic back.

 

Hey there Rajiv, I was just talking with Alex and he recommended I get in touch with you about troubleshooting the new ISO Regen.  I don't have the time at the moment to type it all out, but I'll be back in an hour or so and available all weekend if you're willing to chat.  Hopefully I'm not on your ignore list :)

 

Thanks in advance

Link to comment
22 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Hmm, not sure how I can help, but I'm happy to chat. It'll have to be later this evening. I'll PM you, and we'll figure something out.

 

 

Not anymore! :P

 

Thanks, I appreciate it on all counts.  I'm back home now and will watch for your pm.

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

After a 5 month wait my Paul Hynes SR7 is finally built and should ship next week.  Good news for anyone who's placed an order since April.  Once I get it I'll post results.

 

A quick update on my ISO Regen experience.  I received a replacement IR and after initial issues was able to get my DACs to connect with my server with the IR in between.  After further listening I found that the signal would drop, PLL errors get thrown to the DAC and I will get audible static.  I have tried Windows Server 2016, Windows 10 and Roon ROCK OS installs on my server.  I have also tried a second server running ROCK.  I have tried two different DACs, the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 and the Benchmark DAC3.  Same behavior is experienced. It's important to note the behavior is not consistent.  Sometimes things will work from the start and sometimes they won't.  Sometimes it will work for a bit then fail.  I also tried turning off the 5v switch on the USPCB and making a connection with the IR in line.  When I did that the IR stopped working completely.  I waited a bit, then tried it with a different DAC on the other server and it started working again.  I don't know what caused it to stop or start working.  The thought at this point is that there is a grounding issue with how the IR interacts with my DAC.  I'm not the only person having issues with the IR so I know it's not just my system.  Fortunately there are many people who are not having issues.  Perhaps they haven't tested every scenario, such as direct server to DAC connection.  I'd be interested in hearing other's testing experiences.

 

The IR will work without issue when my sMS-200 is behind it.  It did not at first, but for some unknown reason it just started working one day, and it continues to work.  I do need to put more time into this scenario as I've been putting all the time into testing without the sMS-200 in line.  What's odd is that Roon Rock and the sMS-200 both use Fedora Linux.  That leads me to believe it's not an OS or driver issue, although it could still be driver related.

 

I have tried several USB cables in my tests.  Stock USB cables that came with the DAC, two USPCB's, Curious Cable and the Lush.  The Lush on its own between server and DAC or with IR in line does not work with my DAC.  It's not a spec cable and my AA DAC appears to be particular about spec.  Oddly the Lush will work with the AA DAC when the sMS-200 is in line with any scenario.  Whatever the sMS-200 does for both the IR and the Lush is good.

 

As a side note, I've been auditioning several preamps and I will be starting a separate thread to describe my listening experiences with them.  The pre's are: Audio Research LS28, Backert Labs Rhumba 1.2 and Rhumba 1.2 Extreme, Rogue RP-5, Atma-Sphere MP-3 mk 3.3 and the Benchmark DAC3.  What I have heard when listening to these pre's is what I'd describe a macro change.  All the tinkering done with power and USB clocks are minuscule compared to what these pre's can do. 

 

I will likely also be giving the new Anthem integrated a listen tonight as they're about to release a new pre.  It includes a DAC and the Anthem room correction which is interesting.  I have no experience with their products but the room correction and allowance for a better integrated subwoofer into 2 channel listening have appeal.  Hopefully there's a DAC bypass unless by miracle it's amazing on it's own, which I doubt.

http://hometheaterhifi.com/press-releases/anthem-introduces-flagship-stereo-separates-str-preamplifier-str-power-amplifier-purist-heart/

 

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

 

Johnseye--

 

I have been waiting over five months for my Paul Hynes SR5 for my phono stage and just posted about the problems I have had contacting Hynes in the General Forum here. Hynes has not answered a single email since I sent payment on March 29. Have you been able to contact him? What sort of communication did you have with him after you sent funds? Any suggestions for me?

 

Jon in Seattle

 

Did you pay him?  All my communication has been by email.  He is often unresponsive for days or weeks but after I follow up he eventually replies.  All I have to say after this, is that the PSU better be worth it.  Incredibly expensive, upfront payment to an individual you don't know and an incredibly long wait.  I knew it would be a long wait going into it, but I thought a month or two.  It's turned into 5.  In no other circumstance would I ever front someone who I don't know thousands of dollars to build me something a few people on the Internet say is good.  Had communication been good that would have made the experience more palatable, but it hasn't been.  Granted, he lives on a sparsely populated island off of Scotland, but they have the Internet.   I'm only being bluntly honest here.

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, mozes said:

It's a great brand, I used to have their entry level receiver MRX 310 and it sounded great and rivaled my 2 channel amps. The ARC feature they have is one of the best for integrating subwoofers, I tried it many times. Their new offering of separates deserve listening. On top of that you get superb service and after sale service from Anthem!

 

You're making my decision harder!  I've been very impressed with a couple of the pre's I auditioned.  If it comes close to that experience I'll be happy because of the added features.  Good to hear they have great service.

 

7 minutes ago, mozes said:

If a manufacturer doesn't reply to my emails after I sent a payment, then I am not interested in his products even if they are arguably the best!

I like to give my business to people who engage with customers before and after the sale.

 

Agreed.  Never again.  There were times I thought I would lose my money, then he responds.  Now I'll have to worry about support if the PSU has issues.  Based on my experience with SOtM it's night and day.  If I were to do it over I'd get an sPS-500.

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

Yes, I paid him $1214 USD on March 29. Despite a half dozen or more attempts to reach him by email since then, I have had zero replies to my emails. No communication whatsoever, despite the fact the before I sent the funds, we exchanged about a dozen emails over a one-week period. I also tried calling him, using the phone number on his out-of-date website, and got a recorded message that the line was no longer working. 

 

I've been using the email [email protected]. Has he replied to you with this email? Can you tell me what date you sent him funds and what date you expect to receive your power supply? 

 

Unhappy in Seattle

 

That's the email.  I haven't received my SR7 yet.  Hopefully I didn't jinx anything ;).

 

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, austinpop said:

A Little Aside on Burn-in

 

I just returned from 6 days away from home. Just before I left, my system was finally back to full strength, but several changes were relatively recent:

  • my tX-USBultra, sMS-200, and switch had just returned from Korea after being fitted with SMB connectors to replace the hard wired clock cables in the original mod
  • Brand new Digikey SMB clock cables
  • Repaired (or possibly replaced - not sure) LPS-1 feeding my tX
  • Relatively new ISO-Regen and 2 x USPCBs (about 50 hours on them)

Do all of these things need burn in? Who knows. My view is why get hot and bothered about these things. Since I was going to be gone for 6 days, there was no severe weather in the forecast (I disconnect my gear during our thunderstorms here in Texas!), and I had a spouse at home who could pull the plug in case of contingencies, I decided to let the system burn in, using my standard practice of playing ocean sounds. I turned the volume on my amp to 0. I probably could have left my amp off. Again, why sweat it?

 

By the time I returned, I'd put a good 150+ hours on the gear.

 

The result?

 

To my ears, a very noticeable benefit. The sound was significantly more relaxed, more airy, without a hint of harshness. All the goodness - resolution, dimensionality, micro- and macro-details were all still there, but now coupled with this profound sense of ease. To be honest, I was not expecting this. Not because I haven't experienced the benefits of burn-in before, but because the changes in the system were fairly peripheral.

 

So does burn in of the trifecta and associated gear matter? To my ears, emphatically - yes! I won't debate the why's and why not's since I have no basis to do so, other than empirically. But it's easy enough to do, so just set it and forget it for a few days, and you'll be pleasantly surprised!

 

Every audio manufacturer I've ever talked with recommends it. Whether the answer is known or not, I hear a difference and so do they. That's good enough for me. 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...