A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[austinpop]

On 8/9/2019 at 3:34 AM, dctom said:

 

On the tweaking front does the sNH-10G have as much effect on SQ when playing music files from a NAS, as when streaming from Tidal for instance ( I don't use streaming services).

 

For my system, yes.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 3:34 AM, dctom said:

Also does the basic one sound very different to the one with the sCLK-EX built in? 

 

Not sure. I’ve not tried the basic one.

 

[Tommd64]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

For my system, yes.

 

 

Not sure. I’ve not tried the basic one.

 

Did you know that the BASIC sNH-10g also works on 9-12volts..Wachout only the basic version; the other ones needs an adjustement..

[FredM]

On 8/9/2019 at 2:45 PM, seeteeyou said:

The very first Xeon NUC
http://www.fanlesstech.com/2019/08/the-very-first-xeon-nuc.html

 

Intel Quartz Canyon NUC will support Xeon chips, discrete graphics

https://liliputing.com/2019/08/intel-quartz-canyon-nuc-will-support-xeon-chips-discrete-graphics.html

 

Intel® Xeon® E Processor

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/134861/intel-xeon-e-processor.html

 

Internal PSU could be an obstacle, though.

 

Just to mention, the first link now contains updated information. 

[seeteeyou]

Thanks buddy, additional pictures were posted here

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/intelnuc/comments/coiee6/next_gen_enthusiast_nuc_phantom_canyon_unveiled/

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dctom]

22 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

For my system, yes.

 

Not sure. I’ve not tried the basic one.

22 hours ago, Tommd64 said:

Did you know that the BASIC sNH-10g also works on 9-12volts..Wachout only the basic version; the other ones needs an adjustement..

 

Thanks for the warning and feedback.

[Bricki]

Listening impressions

 

SMS-200 (latest 4.6 update) vs Celeron NUC7 (audiolinux)

The software for both of these has changed considerably since I last did this comparison, so I thought it was worth a revisit. Both are powered by an sps500 with JSSG360 DC cable and furutech TCS21 ac cable. Ethernet connection to the server is bridged and running in half duplex mode at 10mbps. With a 1 meter Supra cat8 with JSSG360.

The SMS-200

This is the original sms-200 non ultra with no neo upgrade

 

Pros: 

-has a blacker background with more focused images.

-has a slightly more refined or lower noise feel about the presentation

-has a bit more depth to the soundstage

Cons:

-despite the more focused image outlines the image itself somehow seems flatter and digitally smeared. I know this sounds like a contradiction, but it's like a nicely focused caricature vs the NUC that is a slightly out of focus but more natural image of the original recording.

-less dynamic

-has a flatter less colourful tone

-has smaller images

-although it has more depth to the soundstage it feels smaller with less width

 

The NUC

The NUC is in an akasa fanless case running the latest audiolinux headless mini 140 with the 5.2 BFQ kernel in ramroot with isolated cores and acpi CPU scaling driver.

Pros:

-has a much more natural sound

-has larger images and soundstage

-piano, guitar and brass instruments sound much more like the real thing with less digital smearing and a more analogue sound. Live recordings are particularly good with a feeling as if the output from the sound desk is plugged into my amp.

-has a more colourful tone that makes everything seem more alive.

-makes me want to listen to music more and not change tracks but listen to a whole album

-more captivating

-more dynamic

-lyrics are more easily discerned

Cons:

-the background seems slightly more gray and less black

-the images aren't quite as focused in their outlines

-doesn't sound quite as refined in the presentation

Final thoughts

Although the software on both devices has changed for the better, the NUC is still the better sounding of the 2 in my system. It gets deeper into recordings and lets you hear things you didn't even know were there. It makes me wish I had more financial resources to get more powerful hardware 😁👍

[Blackmorec]

7 hours ago, Bricki said:

Listening impressions

 

SMS-200 (latest 4.6 update) vs Celeron NUC7 (audiolinux)

The software for both of these has changed considerably since I last did this comparison, so I thought it was worth a revisit. Both are powered by an sps500 with JSSG360 DC cable and furutech TCS21 ac cable. Ethernet connection to the server is bridged and running in half duplex mode at 10mbps. With a 1 meter Supra cat8 with JSSG360.

The SMS-200

This is the original sms-200 non ultra with no neo upgrade

 

Pros: 

-has a blacker background with more focused images.

-has a slightly more refined or lower noise feel about the presentation

-has a bit more depth to the soundstage

Cons:

-despite the more focused image outlines the image itself somehow seems flatter and digitally smeared. I know this sounds like a contradiction, but it's like a nicely focused caricature vs the NUC that is a slightly out of focus but more natural image of the original recording.

-less dynamic

-has a flatter less colourful tone

-has smaller images

-although it has more depth to the soundstage it feels smaller with less width

 

The NUC

The NUC is in an akasa fanless case running the latest audiolinux headless mini 140 with the 5.2 BFQ kernel in ramroot with isolated cores and acpi CPU scaling driver.

Pros:

-has a much more natural sound

-has larger images and soundstage

-piano, guitar and brass instruments sound much more like the real thing with less digital smearing and a more analogue sound. Live recordings are particularly good with a feeling as if the output from the sound desk is plugged into my amp.

-has a more colourful tone that makes everything seem more alive.

-makes me want to listen to music more and not change tracks but listen to a whole album

-more captivating

-more dynamic

-lyrics are more easily discerned

Cons:

-the background seems slightly more gray and less black

-the images aren't quite as focused in their outlines

-doesn't sound quite as refined in the presentation

Final thoughts

Although the software on both devices has changed for the better, the NUC is still the better sounding of the 2 in my system. It gets deeper into recordings and lets you hear things you didn't even know were there. It makes me wish I had more financial resources to get more powerful hardware 😁👍

Nice summary. I’m not a big fan of the sPS-500 as I think its sonic footprint is not amongst the best or least intrusive. If this were my system I’d tend to sell some of the hardware and look for a superior power supply. When you get to the level your at, things like power supplies have quite a major impact on the overall flavour and character of the sound...differences that are quite fundamental to believability and not just cosmetics. 

[Aberrant-Decoder]

11 hours ago, Bricki said:

Listening impressions

 

SMS-200 (latest 4.6 update) vs Celeron NUC7 (audiolinux)

The software for both of these has changed considerably since I last did this comparison, so I thought it was worth a revisit. Both are powered by an sps500 with JSSG360 DC cable and furutech TCS21 ac cable. Ethernet connection to the server is bridged and running in half duplex mode at 10mbps. With a 1 meter Supra cat8 with JSSG360.

The SMS-200

This is the original sms-200 non ultra with no neo upgrade

 

Pros: 

-has a blacker background with more focused images.

-has a slightly more refined or lower noise feel about the presentation

-has a bit more depth to the soundstage

Cons:

-despite the more focused image outlines the image itself somehow seems flatter and digitally smeared. I know this sounds like a contradiction, but it's like a nicely focused caricature vs the NUC that is a slightly out of focus but more natural image of the original recording.

-less dynamic

-has a flatter less colourful tone

-has smaller images

-although it has more depth to the soundstage it feels smaller with less width

 

The NUC

The NUC is in an akasa fanless case running the latest audiolinux headless mini 140 with the 5.2 BFQ kernel in ramroot with isolated cores and acpi CPU scaling driver.

Pros:

-has a much more natural sound

-has larger images and soundstage

-piano, guitar and brass instruments sound much more like the real thing with less digital smearing and a more analogue sound. Live recordings are particularly good with a feeling as if the output from the sound desk is plugged into my amp.

-has a more colourful tone that makes everything seem more alive.

-makes me want to listen to music more and not change tracks but listen to a whole album

-more captivating

-more dynamic

-lyrics are more easily discerned

Cons:

-the background seems slightly more gray and less black

-the images aren't quite as focused in their outlines

-doesn't sound quite as refined in the presentation

Final thoughts

Although the software on both devices has changed for the better, the NUC is still the better sounding of the 2 in my system. It gets deeper into recordings and lets you hear things you didn't even know were there. It makes me wish I had more financial resources to get more powerful hardware 😁👍

Is the nuc your end point or server or both ?

[kennyb123]

13 hours ago, Bricki said:

Final thoughts

Although the software on both devices has changed for the better, the NUC is still the better sounding of the 2 in my system. It gets deeper into recordings and lets you hear things you didn't even know were there. It makes me wish I had more financial resources to get more powerful hardware 😁👍

 

Really nice job of communicating the differences you heard.  I appreciate you posting that.

[Bricki]

11 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Nice summary. I’m not a big fan of the sPS-500 as I think its sonic footprint is not amongst the best or least intrusive. If this were my system I’d tend to sell some of the hardware and look for a superior power supply. When you get to the level your at, things like power supplies have quite a major impact on the overall flavour and character of the sound...differences that are quite fundamental to believability and not just cosmetics. 

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the importance of good power supplies. The only surplus equipment I have is my SMS-200. If I get a new PSU (I have my eyes on the farad super 3) then my sps500 will go to my router. I can only afford one new piece of equipment in the next 12 months so I am carefully considering my next move😁.

Options high on the list are:

-farad super 3

-lps1.2

-Etheregen

-CSS P215 kit speaker

-mini itx build

-more furutech goodies😁

[Bricki]

8 hours ago, Aberrant-Decoder said:

Is the nuc your end point or server or both ?

The NUC is my roon endpoint. The SMS-200 was in roon ready mode 👍

[Bruce Orr]

Agree re: spa500. I also use mine to power my router. 

[Tommd64]

Sure in my opionion the Farad3 is the best at this moment. Sounds smooth with very good top high,s but the Sps500 is also very good! If you don.t have a shipload of money better stick to the SpS500. In my opionion a top Powersupply. And ivm compared them among others a long time..

[Ricardo007]

A lot of praise has been given to lush usb cable by eminent members of this forum.

I wonder if any experience has yet been gathered on ethernet and I2S versions of it:

 

https://stordiau.com/collections/cables-and-more-snakes-oil/products/ethist-2-ethernet-cable

 

https://stordiau.com/collections/cables-and-more-snakes-oil/products/hdmi-2-i2s-cable

 

Looks exciting for extra tweaking hdmi i2s with ground box like entreq

[George Hincapie]

3 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

A lot of praise has been given to lush usb cable by eminent members of this forum.

I wonder if any experience has yet been gathered on ethernet and I2S versions of it:

 

https://stordiau.com/collections/cables-and-more-snakes-oil/products/ethist-2-ethernet-cable

 

https://stordiau.com/collections/cables-and-more-snakes-oil/products/hdmi-2-i2s-cable

 

Looks exciting for extra tweaking hdmi i2s with ground box like entreq

 

Shoildn't be necessary with EtherRegen. Any well made cable should do the job.

[Ricardo007]

I did not mention etherregen...

[Blackmorec]

15 minutes ago, George Hincapie said:

 

Shoildn't be necessary with EtherRegen. Any well made cable should do the job.

We’re told! Anyway when is that EtherRegen coming? It was promised in 2018 so must be a little more difficult to invent than first thought....I’m guessing it will be good when it finally does get released.  No one can accuse them of rushing it to market.  🤒   Or maybe its soooo good they’re gearing up to produce thousands? Eh lads? 

I must say i’m pretty interested in trying a unit....me and every other audiophile whose posts you read on AS.  I’ve rarely seen such prerelease curiosity/interest for a product. I guess that happens when you claim to fix a lot of strange or intractable problems, of which our network and digital in general have plenty  

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, George Hincapie said:

 

Shoildn't be necessary with EtherRegen. Any well made cable should do the job.

 

The cable will still have an impact. 

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

 

Shoildn't be necessary with EtherRegen. Any well made cable should do the job.

 

Speculation is pointless. Wait until the product is out, and test it for yourself.

[Nenon]

8 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

A lot of praise has been given to lush usb cable by eminent members of this forum.

I wonder if any experience has yet been gathered on ethernet and I2S versions of it:

 

https://stordiau.com/collections/cables-and-more-snakes-oil/products/ethist-2-ethernet-cable

 

https://stordiau.com/collections/cables-and-more-snakes-oil/products/hdmi-2-i2s-cable

 

Looks exciting for extra tweaking hdmi i2s with ground box like entreq

I am planning to try their i2S cable and compare with a decent HDMI cable and a DIY cable from a really-really good 24AWG 5N solid silver I have been using for years.

 

I am also planning to compare two AMD-based motherboards - an Asus gaming motherboard (ASUS ROG Strix X470-I) with a AsROCK server motherboard (X470D4U) with ECC RAM. Keep you posted on that as well. 

 

[George Hincapie]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Speculation is pointless. Wait until the product is out, and test it for yourself.

 

It's not speculation, pretty sure Uptone have said as much themselves in their forum. Don't you think that would be a good thing?!

 

I've already told SuperDad I'd like one 

[auricgoldfinger]

36 minutes ago, George Hincapie said:

 

It's not speculation, pretty sure Uptone have said as much themselves in their forum. Don't you think that would be a good thing?!

 

I've already told SuperDad I'd like one 

 

They've actually been pretty clear that they don't know how these kinds of issues will sort out.  It's all speculation at this point.

[George Hincapie]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

They've actually been pretty clear that they don't know how these kinds of issues will sort out.  It's all speculation at this point.

 

That's not my read, but OK. We'll find out soon enough.

[austinpop]

10 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

Shoildn't be necessary with EtherRegen. Any well made cable should do the job.

 

2 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

It's not speculation, pretty sure Uptone have said as much themselves in their forum. Don't you think that would be a good thing?!

 

Cool your jets, brother!

 

Anything a manufacturer says prior to a product's actual release is a claim, which remains to be verified once it's real. I'm not putting down Uptone when I say that. Many of us here are eagerly awaiting the EtherRegen, and hoping it sounds outstanding. If indeed it also eliminates all differences in Ethernet cables (and end world hunger while it's at it), that will be an interesting result. I'm not sure they ever made that claim - do you have a link to a post by @Superdad or @JohnSwenson where that was claimed?

 

This thread has always been about actual listening experience, not speculation and conjecture. So until the EtherRegen is in people's hands, let's table this discussion.

 

BTW - this is what John Swenson recently wrote on the EtherRegen thread. Recently as in yesterday. Note the phrase "the fully functional EtherREGEN simply does not exist at this point in time." 

 

On 8/14/2019 at 2:07 AM, JohnSwenson said:

Unfortunately there is no way anyone can tell you exactly how it is going to turn out in any situation, the fully functional EtherREGEN simply does not exist at this point in time. Even if I had all the equipment you have I couldn't test it since I don't have a fully functional board at this point. I'm not trying hide things or be difficult, It just cannot be done right now. There is no way I can tell yow what configuration is going to sound best. There is just no way I can do that right now. Any attempt at making a pure guess would be a disservice to the community.

[Superdad]

15 minutes ago, austinpop said:

BTW - this is what John Swenson recently wrote on the EtherRegen thread. Recently as in yesterday. Note the phrase "the fully functional EtherREGEN simply does not exist at this point in time."

 

Happily it will (assuming no last errors) exist exactly 10 days from now.  That’s when the second round of final pre-production boards arrive for testing.

Of course the EtherREGEN has functioned in various stages and parts on John’s bench for the past year.  It is just the bringing together of ALL the key elements (isolation, clocking, power, data handling, etc.)—at the full performance level of our goals—which is at last taking place.

 

As for cables and other upstream stuff, our stance has always been that:

a) We don’t know just yet how much will cease to matter;

b) The cable on the downstream side—from the EtherREGEN to the DAC-attached endpoint—will likely become the most critical;

c) There is a chance that—as with other areas of audio system advancement—the transparency brought by an EtherREGEN may make upstream tweaks MORE apparent and not less.

 

We all just get to wait and see hear.