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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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7 hours ago, bobfa said:

PLEASE and Thank You.

 

I have been comparing Roon +StylusSQ and Stylus against each other on my Xeon.  I have to start some processor speed limit testing next.  I still feel that Stylus sounds better.  There is more dynamics and there is more detail.  I am going to get some other folks over to listen!

 

My son likes Stylus more for the simplicity of using their web interface and the speed of the UI.  I still like Roon for their look and feel.  

 

I will also bring the NUC back up and listen to it I have to validate the differences again.

 

NOTE: using the HDPLEX 400 and an FMC to the endpoint.  I am not trying to change network speed due to FMC.  The Xeon now has an Element-X  USB card.

 

Thanks Bob.

 

I don't want to muddy the waters too much, but I am finding on some tracks I actually prefer Roon+StylusEP, whereas more often than not, I still prefer Stylus. Certainly on large orchestral music, I think Stylus offers a more expansive image that is addictive.

 

Of late, I've stopped switching around, and am just enjoying Roon+StylusEP

 

I strongly encourage people to try things like this for themselves. 

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8 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

you can see the 'Statement' supply below to get an idea of quality:

http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/power-supply-design-innuos-statement

Thanks for posting that. It's interesting to read Sean's philosophy .

 Personally, I believe that a low impedance output that is fairly flat over the range from D.C. to >100kHz and to even 1mHz, gives the best results. Far too many ultra low noise PSUs these days have way lower output impedance at 100kHz and higher, than in the VF range.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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23 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks Bob.

 

I don't want to muddy the waters too much, but I am finding on some tracks I actually prefer Roon+StylusEP, whereas more often than not, I still prefer Stylus. Certainly on large orchestral music, I think Stylus offers a more expansive image that is addictive.

 

Of late, I've stopped switching around, and am just enjoying Roon+StylusEP

 

I strongly encourage people to try things like this for themselves. 

Hi Bob and Rajiv, I'm on the same testing wagon and I discovered in my system just the same fanless nuc connected directly to the DAC via usb, euphony stylus player pcm 32 bits and 44 Khz no up-sampling Flac vs roon native running in AL no upsampling either sounded fairly the same, maybe euphony have better bass but I think it is not better but different stage presentation with a more upfront bass. 

 

Honestly with my system the upsampling makes it more airy and less bassy, maybe more detailed because of the lack of bass upfront but not necessarily better. 

 

Which is making me to question all the upsampling path I have taken. 

 

My wife she says the new sound with no upsampling she doesn't like it, she describes it as "something is vibrating and I don't like it" please guys (not you Bob or Rajiv) keep the obvious jokes to yourself, she is a pianist and I actually take her opinions very seriously, 

 

I think with better content from qobuz for example 24 bits and 96 or 192 native the need for upsampling is getting more cuestionable. 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, luisma said:

Hi Bob and Rajiv, I'm on the same testing wagon and I discovered in my system just the same fanless nuc connected directly to the DAC via usb, euphony stylus player pcm 32 bits and 44 Khz no up-sampling Flac vs roon native running in AL no upsampling either sounded fairly the same, maybe euphony have better bass but I think it is not better but different stage presentation with a more upfront bass. 

 

Honestly with my system the upsampling makes it more airy and less bassy, maybe more detailed because of the lack of bass upfront but not necessarily better. 

 

Which is making me to question all the upsampling path I have taken. 

 

My wife she says the new sound with no upsampling she doesn't like it, she describes it as "something is vibrating and I don't like it" please guys (not you Bob or Rajiv) keep the obvious jokes to yourself, she is a pianist and I actually take her opinions very seriously, 

 

I think with better content from qobuz for example 24 bits and 96 or 192 native the need for upsampling is getting more cuestionable. 

 

 

 

Louis,

 

Can you tell me what you are doing for upsampling?  Tomorrow is listening day!!  

 

Bob

 

Four tests planned.  Xeon and NUC A/B/C/D Stylus and StylusEP with Roon on both.  WHEW

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1 hour ago, Nenon said:

Does it say anything in the manual what each is used for? I haven't used a motherboard like that yet. Have you checked with a multimeter if the DC+ on one of the EPS connector is connected to the DC+ on the other? It seems like you may need (benefit from) 5 rails for a motherboard like that.

The manual doesn't say anything helpful, I checked it before I posted my question.  I don't have the motherboard, but I've noticed many of the better X570 and Z390 boards have these connectors.  I will read some reviews.  I think you can probably just use one 8-pin EPS12V as long as you're not overclocking, but I'd like to verify that. 

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Great teaser post from Eric!

 

I have acquired a Farad Super3 12V PSU from Mattijs, and am burning it in. Given how long it took for my SR-4 to fully burn in, and the level of interest I'm sure there is for this comparison, please be patient. :) 

 

Once I feel the Farad is fully burned in, Eric and I will conduct a PSU shootout between the Farad Super3, the LPS-1.2, the SR-4, and the mighty SR-7, all set at 12V.

 

It's an exciting time to be an, um, LPSU fan.

The Farad is still at 3 A ?

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7 hours ago, dctom said:

I have been following the thread for a while and  took the plunge a couple of months ago.

To start with, my original diy fanless Asus mini-ITX was  utilised as a server feeding a 7i7dnbe in Asaka plato case. Both machines running on Ubuntu, the ITX directly linked to the NUC.

 

This immediately produced an uplift in SQ. Replacing the USB  HDD externally connected to the Asus with a Synology NAS was another improvement. Next came the HDPLEX 200w. The Plex currently powers the NUC at 19v, the NAS 12v, DP link switch 9v, and ITX ssd 5v with CANARE 4S6s  dc cables. This has seen another increase in SQ.

 

As the psu  has proved so beneficial I have ordered a Sean Jacobs 5amp DC3  and Hynes SR 4 to, hopefully raise the bar further.

 

It has been something of a journey trying to improve on the linux ITX. I borrowed an Aurilac G1 and although it seemed slightly more transparent, initially  with my external USB HDD connected. However it stopped recognising the HDD and would only work with my ITX acting as a server connecting to the G1 via ethernet. In this mode it sounded worse than the just the ITX  + exHD connected to my DAC.

 

The current set up has left the G1 in the dust suffice to say.

 

With the power supply seemingly ever more critical, I have replaced the RCBOs in the dedicated consumer unit, which supplies the HiFi system, with better quality ones. This has brought a subtle but noticeable improvement in the already excellent clarity, weight and bass.  Obviously  all the components in the system have benefited not just the server set up.

 

 

 

What will you be powering with both the SJ DC3 & PH SR4 ?

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29 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Yes, and based on recent conversion with Mattijs, the 12A version is 3 to 6 month out.

 

The moment that you put a voltage regulator AFTER Supercaps you degrade the potential of the Supercaps, as different types of voltage regulators and their necessary lower value capacitors will affect the ultimate results .

 You ideally need to find a way to regulate the current and voltage into the bank of Supercaps for output voltage stability.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Hi Gents,

 

Could anyone in this thread explain the main difference between the NUC7I7DNBE vs NUC8I7BEH that makes the NUC7I7DNBE apparently the best choice among the NUCs ?

 

The only main difference i can observe is that the later is 28W vs the 15W of the NUC7I7DNBE, besides that the NUC8I7BEH is cheaper keeping all the same qualities and also having some upgraded ones like USB 3.1 instead of 3.0.

 

Would the difference between the TDP in each NUC is what is all about this NUC (NUC7I7DNBE) as the real winner, or maybe I'm missing something ?

 

image.thumb.png.59c30404bba7dba4690e482741c4ffa1.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.836779883c46e33b2a48dffa658fe9ff.png

 

image.thumb.png.35c5c1724386d34e3835ab0209cd0ded.png

 

image.thumb.png.ed42e7307e03cca4753e1b8974015de6.png

 

image.thumb.png.90a83ba7b2c5524fd4eef2f9042d7f8a.png

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3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Great teaser post from Eric!

 

I have acquired a Farad Super3 12V PSU from Mattijs, and am burning it in. Given how long it took for my SR-4 to fully burn in, and the level of interest I'm sure there is for this comparison, please be patient. :) 

 

Once I feel the Farad is fully burned in, Eric and I will conduct a PSU shootout between the Farad Super3, the LPS-1.2, the SR-4, and the mighty SR-7, all set at 12V.

 

It's an exciting time to be an, um, LPSU fan.

 

Looking forward to this. I've been holding off on placing another order with Paul until I hear this outcome. 

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1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

 

 

What will you be powering with both the SJ DC3 & PH SR4 ?

 

 

The intention is to use one for the ITX and the other for the NUC. Then use the four HDplex  outputs for the; ITX ssd, switch, NAS, and possibly router.

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2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

The moment that you put a voltage regulator AFTER Supercaps you degrade the potential of the Supercaps, as different types of voltage regulators and their necessary lower value capacitors will affect the ultimate results .

 You ideally need to find a way to regulate the current and voltage into the bank of Supercaps for output voltage stability.

Not sure why you post this information quoted with my post that was answering someone else's question.  Since I have the faintest idea on what you are proposing, but sounds like some design ideas you have, it will be best if you address these to the manufacture directly, as you are clearly picked a wrong tree to bark here.

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14 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Not sure why you post this information quoted with my post that was answering someone else's question.  Since I have no faintest idea on what you are proposing, but sounds like some design ideas you have, it will be best if you address these to the manufacture directly, as you are clearly picked a wrong tree to bark here.

 

You appear to be promoting the Farad power supplies, so other members have the right to know of any possible drawbacks to using such a supply over other the many excellent designs available  from other manufacturers such as Uptone , Sean Jacobs etc..

 N.B.

 I am not suggesting that this particular PSU doesn't perform very well indeed, just that using Ultracaps ahead of a voltage regulator does not make it necessarily superior to other topologies.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

You appear to be promoting the Farad power supplies, so other members have the right to know of any possible drawbacks to using such a supply over other the many excellent designs available  from other manufacturers such as Uptone , Sean Jacobs etc..

Again, not sure how my earlier post come even close to promoting Farad power supply.  It was simply a direct answer to another member's question, no more no less.  Frankly speaking, I have no bias to one brand or another, and from the listing you have, I have own the many of the power supplies and have wrote many good impressions about them in the past.  To me, you acted overly sensitive, and there is no reason to take up more continued discussion here, so please STOP after this Off-Topic discussion.

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9 minutes ago, elan120 said:

To me, you acted overly sensitive, and there is no reason to take up more continued discussion here, so please STOP after this Off-Topic discussion.

 

I would suggest that members wait until Rajiv who also has wide experience in these areas completes the burning in of his new PSU and has had a chance to compare it with others that he has used.

 It is so easy to make expensive mistakes when purchasing after market power supplies, and it is best to wait until there are plenty of confirming reports before purchasing items like this.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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3 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

The moment that you put a voltage regulator AFTER Supercaps you degrade the potential of the Supercaps, as different types of voltage regulators and their necessary lower value capacitors will affect the ultimate results .

 You ideally need to find a way to regulate the current and voltage into the bank of Supercaps for output voltage stability.

This is good point, the Farad does NOT offer voltage regulation, correct ? Or does it ? They have fixed voltage though not sure about regulation. You need to choose the V when you buy one and they don't do multi-rails either. They want it to be single rail fixed voltage to get best results (I think it is stated on the web). I suppose one can buy a single unit LPS with isolated rails (I think the sean Jacobs Statement LPS is like this ?) but that would cost a lot more, perhaps as much as buying individual LPS.

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45 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

This is good point, the Farad does NOT offer voltage regulation, correct ? Or does it ?

 

Yes, it does have voltage regulation AFTER the Ultracaps as many other supplies such as that from Uptone do.

Uptone does however report that their lower current supply is almost perfectly isolated from the A.C. mains side , although there is a still a small amount of residual HF coupling due to the internal capacitances of the parallel switching transistors used.

 The main drawback with the currently available Ultracap supply from Uptone is it's smaller output current capabilities.

 Sean Jacobs has gone an entirely different route using several separate transformer windings, and separate voltage regulation for each of the voltage outputs, combined with large value high quality Mundorf output  filter capacitors on each supply rail.

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat !¬¬

 

I would suggest that people wait for Rajiv and others to post their subjective findings before purchasing such expensive items where there may be several months before delivery.

 

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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28 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Kindly stop, or I will go back and delete these posts.

Please do.

I just wanted people to see your reports before jumping in and purchasing an expensive item without confirming reports

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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I have mentioned in one of my previous posts, but I did compare an LPS-1.2 with a 1.5A Sean Jacobs LPS. I compared several 5V devices (JCAT, Allo, USB reclocker, etc.), an ultraRendu, and a NUC that was able to run from the 12V on the LPS-1.2. In most tests the LPS-1.2 was charged by sBooster. I liked the SJ a little better in every test I did. 

I consider the LPS-1.2 an amazing device with genius engineering that also sounds really really good. I am not sure why the SJ sounded better in my system, but the larger transformer and big Mundorf caps may very likely have something to do with it. It's also more expensive. 

Industry disclosure:
https://chicagohifi.com

Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs

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Not sure where to post this but just received Youtube recommendation (ETA Prime) that new Raspberry Pi 4 is out and avaiable!

 

Specs:-

Broadcom BCM2711, Quad-core Cortex-A72 (ARM v8) 64 bit SoC @1.5GHz

1GB, 2GB or 4GB LPDDR4-2400 SDRAM (depending on model)

2.4 GHz and 5.0 GHz IEEE 802.11ac, Bluetooth 5.0, BLE

Gigabit Ethernet

2 USB 3.0 ports, 2 USB 2.0 ports.

40 pin GPIO (fully backward compatible with previous boards)

H265 (4kp60 decode) and H264 (1080p60 decode)

2 x micro HDMI port ( up to 4kp60 supported)

OpenGL ES 3.0 graphics

Micro-SD card for OS and storage

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9 hours ago, sandyk said:

You ideally need to find a way to regulate the current and voltage into the bank of Supercaps for output voltage stability.

I believe you also need to limit the current when the super caps are empty. It's almost seen as a short circuit for the regulator.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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