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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

The Computer Audiophile

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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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2 hours ago, Nenon said:

A huge excellent quality oversized (400VA) toroidal transformer is a key part of it.

Sounds like a beast of a PS very low impedance, should have great dynamics. Shame a head to head with the SR7 can't be arranged.

I had considered starting a Sean Jacobs thread a few months ago, but Sean being the modest person he is didn't want (or need) the publicity. Maybe you might want to start one detailing your supply / project, since you seem to have taken your build to the current pinnacle of Sean's work.

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1 hour ago, LTG2010 said:

Sounds like a beast of a PS very low impedance, should have great dynamics. Shame a head to head with the SR7 can't be arranged.

I had considered starting a Sean Jacobs thread a few months ago, but Sean being the modest person he is didn't want (or need) the publicity. Maybe you might want to start one detailing your supply / project, since you seem to have taken your build to the current pinnacle of Sean's work.

 

Are you able to post an internal photo of Sean's PSU with the 400VA toroidal transformer ?

 I have no doubts as to the high quality of Sean's work, having seen photos of it first hand when Sean was a member of the same U.K. based forum some years ago, which is why I recommended him fairly recently in the forum.


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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4 hours ago, Nenon said:

Let's talk about the SR7.

Yes, SR7 is unobtainable. I have never had a chance to try one. And I probably would never do. Sometimes I wonder if the SR7 is really that good or it's the fact that people can't get it that makes it so desirable to the point that it became legendary. There is a very small number of those power supplies ever made, and yet so many people talk about them. I bet most of those people, just like me, have never heard one in their system. 

 

So let's not split this into a thread of people with SR7's and everyone else (aka mortals). And let's not say that the only alternative for the mortals is a NUC solution. 

 

There are other power supply alternatives. Sean Jacobs at Custom HiFi Cables is a good example. He has learned a lot from his work with Innuos. In my opinion, the way the power supply on the Innuos Statement was designed might be even a better approach than using a SR7 with long umbilical cords. Here is a good article explaining the distributed design on the Statement:

http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/power-supply-design-innuos-statement

 

I am OCD when it comes to that stuff. I have a Sean Jacobs power supply. It sounds a lot better than the sBooster, LPS1.2, etc. in my system no matter what I power with it. A huge excellent quality oversized (400VA) toroidal transformer is a key part of it. I have also gone the Statement distributed power supply approach with the transformer and the recap modules in one chassis and the regulators in another chassis with the motherboard. I have 4 separate rails going to the motherboard (3 for the ATX connector and one for the CPU). My cables from the regulators to the motherboard are between 1'' and 3''. They are 15.5AWG Mundorf Silver/Gold - https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-72180.html. Expensive but really good. Every wire has the JSSG360 shielding, even those that are 2'' long. Yes that requires soldering, but attention to every detail pays out. I have heard the difference between having a long wire from the regulators to the motherboard and a short wire. I can also hear a difference between the different types of wire I use there, no matter how short they are. Amazing stuff, and to be honest if someone told me those little things make a difference I would not believe that. 

 

So, the question is if someone can give me a SR7 with two rails, would I replace what I have now? I would have to install a Pico DC to DC ATX converter  and use one rail for the ATX. And another rail for the EPS connector. And use 1 meter long cables for that. I don't know. Actually, I highly doubt it. There are too many compromises in such a solution - the long umbilical cords, the shared DC rails, less DC isolation, all that cross-contamination, the DC to DC converter, etc. I would certainly try it if I had that chance. But my point is that the SR7 is not a perfect solution either. The transformer in the SR7 is half the size of the transformer I use. And no, I did not just get a big transformer from eBay, but an expensive custom one made to order with every trick that can help reduce noise and lower the impedance. The Mundorf capacitors Sean uses look a lot bigger and better quality than those on the SR7. Yes, the SR7 uses a magical custom regulator, that is supposedly the best in the world, but can that make up for all the other compromises taken here? Maybe it can, maybe it can't; I don't know. 

 

Sean Jacobs is just one solution out there. I am sure there are more. It just happened that's the one I am familiar with. I suggest instead of splitting this thread between mortals and immortals we go out there and explore the current solutions on the market, try, test, listen, and report back our findings. 

 

hmm, rather expensive solution. I don't suppose Sean Jacobs sells the LPS separately? 

 

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3 hours ago, afrancois said:

I’m using an edgerouter 6p with great succes. This router is connected to the main switch using fiber sfp. This way you’re isolated from the modem and  in the cabling outside your house. As the edgerouter doesn’t include WiFi you will need separate WiFi access points. Keep these AP far enough away from your stereo rig.

I have done emission testing for many switches and routers including Cisco, hp and ubiquity and others like netgears, dells etc. Quite contrary to what I have imagined ubiquity provides the more rfi / EMI blocking in general, between 0 and 4 ghz very surprising results so I vouch for the one a francois recommended 

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3 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

Sounds like a beast of a PS very low impedance, should have great dynamics. Shame a head to head with the SR7 can't be arranged.

I had considered starting a Sean Jacobs thread a few months ago, but Sean being the modest person he is didn't want (or need) the publicity. Maybe you might want to start one detailing your supply / project, since you seem to have taken your build to the current pinnacle of Sean's work.

 

Maybe - I will consider that. In the meantime if anyone wants to know more, just send me a PM. Happy to help with whatever I can. 

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1 hour ago, Chopin75 said:

hmm, rather expensive solution. I don't suppose Sean Jacobs sells the LPS separately? 

 

 

Yes, you can buy a custom LPS from Sean Jacobs. That's what he does. 

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12 hours ago, vortecjr said:

Not to argue the point, but according to Wikipedia it is:

 

sound card (also known as an audio card) is an internal expansion card that provides input and output of audio signals to and from a computer under control of computer programs.”

good point, so it is one, albeit a very unconventional one.

 

or on second thought audio signals implies analogue signals to me

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21 minutes ago, numlog said:

good point, so it is one, albeit a very unconventional one.

 

or on second thought audio signals implies to me there would be a analogue conversion, no?

 

Most soundcards have Analogue and Digital Inputs, as well as decoded Analogue outputs and a Digital output via Optical or Coax SPDIF and sometimes both. (example attached)

 

 

d2x-backplane1.jpg


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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19 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Most soundcards have Analogue and Digital Inputs, as well as decoded Analogue outputs and a Digital output via Optical or Coax SPDIF and sometimes both. (example attached)

 

 

d2x-backplane1.jpg

Aren't you really describing a DAC or at least the CHIP part of the DAC (if chip is used)? So a sound card has a little signa-delta DAC chip inside ? 

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2 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Aren't you really describing a DAC or at least the CHIP part of the DAC (if chip is used)? So a sound card has a little signa-delta DAC chip inside ? 

 

Well the reason I mentioned the rather unique EVGA Nu Audio 'sound card' is that it includes a significant DAC chip as well as quality components normally found in external USB DACs twice the price. The  'sound card' has been built by EVGA in collaboration with Audio Note in the UK.  See https://www.audionote.co.uk/digital for an overview of their DAC products.

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3 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Aren't you really describing a DAC or at least the CHIP part of the DAC (if chip is used)? So a sound card has a little signa-delta DAC chip inside ? 

 

Soundcards usually provide both A to D, and D to A conversion., often with a microphone input as well.

 I have attached a .pdf of the Asus Xonar D2X Soundcard that I am using. There are even better ones available these days.

Asus_xonar_d2x.pdf


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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48 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Yes, you can buy a custom LPS from Sean Jacobs. That's what he does. 

hmm. so I guess I can tell him what I need - e.g what my server is, how many amp I need etc and he may be able to build one then? I hope he is more reliable than Paul Hynes. From your article it takes 6 months to get the Server+ LPS !  A LPS to separately supply the CPU, ethernet etc. I already have a separate DC supply to SSD & USB bridge. 

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12 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

hmm. so I guess I can tell him what I need - e.g what my server is, how many amp I need etc and he may be able to build one then?

Exactly. As far as I am aware his DC3 power supply with Mundorf caps is identical to what the Innuos Statement uses. If there is any difference (other than the custom transformer of course), I haven't been able to spot it.

 

14 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

I hope he is more reliable than Paul Hynes.

Way better! But as far as I am aware he is a one man shop, and hopefully he would be able to handle higher demands if it ever gets there.

 

14 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

From your article it takes 6 months to get the Server+ LPS !

Not sure what you are referring to.

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32 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

hmm. so I guess I can tell him what I need - e.g what my server is, how many amp I need etc and he may be able to build one then? I hope he is more reliable than Paul Hynes. From your article it takes 6 months to get the Server+ LPS !  A LPS to separately supply the CPU, ethernet etc. I already have a separate DC supply to SSD & USB bridge. 

 

 

In my experience with Sean, his communication and follow through has been impeccable (and I adore the custom supply he built for me).  Absolutely hassle/stress free interaction, met my delivery expectations to a "T", and well exceeded my expectations on impact to my system.  Everyone that I know that has worked with him has a similar story.  Unqualified recommendation from me.

 

I am still waiting on my SR4 and SR7 (might be several years for me...build #31), so I can't speak to whether the hassle of is worth the wait.

 

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30 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 

 

In my experience with Sean, his communication and follow through has been impeccable (and I adore the custom supply he built for me).  Absolutely hassle/stress free interaction, met my delivery expectations to a "T", and well exceeded my expectations on impact to my system.  Everyone that I know that has worked with him has a similar story.  Unqualified recommendation from me.

 

I am still waiting on my SR4 and SR7 (might be several years for me...build #31), so I can't speak to whether the hassle of is worth the wait.

 

Haha, you mean Pau Hynes is still supposedly making them for you?  Several years for a LPS ? By then a full size hand made cello or even luxury piano would have been finished already ! 

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58 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Exactly. As far as I am aware his DC3 power supply with Mundorf caps is identical to what the Innuos Statement uses. If there is any difference (other than the custom transformer of course), I haven't been able to spot it.

 

Way better! But as far as I am aware he is a one man shop, and hopefully he would be able to handle higher demands if it ever gets there.

 

Not sure what you are referring to.

I can't remember where I read this from but maybe it wasn't even about the  LPS ?? Does he work for Innuos or he owns Innuos ? 

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19 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Haha, you mean Pau Hynes is still supposedly making them for you?  Several years for a LPS ? By then a full size hand made cello or even luxury piano would have been finished already ! 

 

I should clarify. I ordered both over the past 4-7 months. I expect the SR4 hopefully this summer, but woth Paul working on the mid teens for the SR7, might be another couple years. I hope he is able to get into a groove and start cranking out a couple a month, so I get to see mine in 2020 (my hearing isn’t getting any better!!)

 

The silver lining for me is that well probably have gone through a couple more  waves of server strategies by then (I’m sticking to my NUCs until my SR7 arrives)

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7 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

He does not own Innuos. He just designed their power supplies. His company is called Custom HiFi Cables - http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/dc3-power-supply

 

Hmm, interesting, I would need to check with him if he can only make it up to 5 A. I still am not sure if Asrock x370 my motherboard can run below 10 A. I can check that too. 

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5 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

hmm. so I guess I can tell him what I need - e.g what my server is, how many amp I need etc and he may be able to build one then? I hope he is more reliable than Paul Hynes. From your article it takes 6 months to get the Server+ LPS !  A LPS to separately supply the CPU, ethernet etc. I already have a separate DC supply to SSD & USB bridge. 

I had also one psu DC3 2 time 12V 5A built by Sean Jacobs . 

This psu works flawlessly in my dual pc set up and dealing with Sean Jacobs what just pure pleasure . Very responsive to answer questions ans set up my psu design and delivery deadline was met right on time .

Sean Jacobs is the way to go for very good psu . 

 

I had previously a disatrous experience with Paul Hynes . I had ordered an SR7 from Paul Hynes  it was supposed to be delivered after roughly 3 month according to his commercial conditions  . After 6 month , I was getting only excuse … and no product or even an expected delivery date .

Hopefully I had paid the 4% paypal fee to be covered and after long and unfair exchanges from Paul , I was able to get my money back from Paypal.

 

I then went to Sean Jacobs and everything worked wonderfully .


Dual PC setup ,Roon , full SOTM , PCie USB,txUSB ultra ,dx USB hd ,powered by SPS 500 and LPS-1 ,  DAC AMR DP777se , Jadis I50 , Martin Logan montis

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9 hours ago, luisma said:

I have done emission testing for many switches and routers including Cisco, hp and ubiquity and others like netgears, dells etc. Quite contrary to what I have imagined ubiquity provides the more rfi / EMI blocking in general, between 0 and 4 ghz very surprising results so I vouch for the one a francois recommended 

Nice to have confirmation for what I"m hearing. All my network infrastructure is Ubiquiti in the mean time. I've recently included two edgerouters 10xp in the chain and the results are quite astonishing. Combining them with an LPS only adds to the experience.

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18 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

NOt sure, I don't even know how their new super OCXO clocks can be used with the motherboard. I presume using it somehow would bypass the original integrated CPU clock on the motherboard.                    

 

Just installed one in my Pink Faun 2.16x. The board has 2 clocks, one for the motherboard and one for the CPU. Described here :

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/43629-pink-faun-216/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-967042

 

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7 hours ago, ray-dude said:

 

 

In my experience with Sean, his communication and follow through has been impeccable (and I adore the custom supply he built for me).  Absolutely hassle/stress free interaction, met my delivery expectations to a "T", and well exceeded my expectations on impact to my system.  Everyone that I know that has worked with him has a similar story.  Unqualified recommendation from me.

 

I am still waiting on my SR4 and SR7 (might be several years for me...build #31), so I can't speak to whether the hassle of is worth the wait.

 

 

+1 on the recommendations for Sean Jacobs. Ordering and then receiving the DC3 on time was hassle free, the communication was great and he's a nice chap as well.

 

Just tell him what you need, he can guide you and make recommendations and he'll then build you a cracking psu. Not sure how the DC3 compares to the SR7. But the DC3 is readily available without any hassle whereas the hassle of ordering the SR7 is as legendary as its performance!

 

Cheers,

Alan


AudioLinux NUCi7DNKE server (powered by SPS-500) > AudioLinux NUCi7DNBE endpoint (powered by LPS-1.2) > PS Audio Directstream DAC > Hegel P20 Pre > PS Audio M700 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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