Jump to content
austinpop

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

The Computer Audiophile

Important and useful information about this thread

Posting guidelines

History and index of useful posts

Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

Message added by The Computer Audiophile

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

If measurement supports our perception it should be accepted as a correct one. When it goes against our subjective feeling it is surely wrong.

Are you familiar with the "garbage field theorem" ?


Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2019 at 12:22 AM, mikicasellas said:

 

Man, thanks a lot for sharing these findings, it is A LOT OF HELP !

 

I tried to install the Euphony IMAGE on my NUC7PJYH and i couldn't because that NUC does not support Legacy Boot, then i am thinking to add a SSD to the NUC to try Euphony and so i can have a taste of it, and wait for that i9-9900T, seems that if im going to build a machine better to wait !

 

I am really intending to do Euphony with only one machine, to keep it as simple as possible !

 

Any idea how much more expensive that processor will be ?

I am just curious on why don't you like AMD RYZEN ? They can run on an extremely low latency, Also to keep all the power in control the processor and the motherboard are build very solid and with good ground planes which result in better performance for sound quality. Also AMD Ryzen 7 2700 is 8-cores/16-thread 65w TDP

 

Warm Regards

 

I use Ryzen 2700x, no issue. It has no graphic card so you need a separate video card for setup purposes. If you run headless (as most do here) take out the video card after setup.   Runs smoothly, recommended by the PinkFaun guys who use them to build their super streamers .They like the multicore design, high Cache memory. However they also think Ryzen works better with their I2S bridge so that may be the main reason and I plan to use an I2S bridge at some point, too. I have not used equivalent intel CPU so cannot compare. I think using Ryzen for Euphony is working fine, does upsampling/PCM--->DSD,  M-ch etc.... more than enough juice for them.  I am currently using it to run Euphony single box. I think you are supposed to use the motherboard for Ryzen like x370 etc.. there is a new Ryzen chip 3000 now!  Can I say this is state of the art streamer this way, not sure, as I have never heard multibox designs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Nenon said:

Furutech Nano Liquid Update

 

@romaz reported some excellent results with this liquid, and although I try to stay away from “snake oil”, I do trust what romaz writes. So it has been on my list to try on my i9-9900K CPU. 

First thing to say - you have to be careful with this stuff. This is conductive material - conductive oil with very small pieces of conductive silver and gold inside. It’s also very think. Chances are you will shorten some pins. Also, chances are the motherboard’s protection would handle the shorted pins, but it’s also possible you can do some permanent damage.

I put a thin layer on the CPU and RAM. Connected my server back. It would not power up. Waited overnight, no change. I could not wait any longer and wanted to find out what happened. Removed the liquid from the CPU. It would not power. Removed the liquid from the memory. It would not power. Troubleshooted a little more - the only way I could boot was when I removed the RAM from one of the slots. Something must happened with that slot. @romaz reported a similar issue in his findings. I was up and running with half the RAM and no liquid anywhere.

 

Now that I knew what the problem was, I was curious to apply the nano liquid to the CPU again. Did that carefully. The computer booted. Good. How did it sound? Better. More alive, less harshness, but still dynamic. It’s a similar effect to reducing the clock speed but without the loss of dynamics. Okay, maybe my mind is making this up. Time to remove the liquid. I cleaned the CPU with alcohol and installed it back. Yes, I can hear a difference. But it still sounds good without the liquid. Hard to say. Applied the liquid again to the CPU. Yep, I was right the first time. I can hear it even better now. The music is flowing easier, some harshness is gone, a little more clear. I liked it more. Time to remove the liquid again. I did that two more times. No issues booting when applying a thin (not dripping layer) on the CPU only. I guess the RAM is what is causing the problems, so I would not recommend applying it to the RAM. Every time I removed the liquid and applied it again, I could hear the same difference, but it was more and more obvious every time. Is it night and day? No. It’s a subtle refinement for those who have tweaked everything else to the max and trying to squeeze every last bit of performance. For example, changing the fuse on my computers makes a more audible and better difference in my system. 

 

Be careful with that stuff!

Painting SMD IC's with a conductive liquid designed for connectors!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

I use Ryzen 2700x, no issue. It has no graphic card so you need a separate video card for setup purposes. If you run headless (as most do here) take out the video card after setup.   Runs smoothly, recommended by the PinkFaun guys who use them to build their super streamers .They like the multicore design, high Cache memory. However they also think Ryzen works better with their I2S bridge so that may be the main reason and I plan to use an I2S bridge at some point, too. I have not used equivalent intel CPU so cannot compare. I think using Ryzen for Euphony is working fine, does upsampling/PCM--->DSD,  M-ch etc.... more than enough juice for them.  I am currently using it to run Euphony single box. I think you are supposed to use the motherboard for Ryzen like x370 etc.. there is a new Ryzen chip 3000 now!  Can I say this is state of the art streamer this way, not sure, as I have never heard multibox designs. 

 

I'm speculating here, but given the Ryzen 3000 series has just moved to a 7nm process to achieve production I do geniunely wonder if these new CPUs are inherently quieter than their predecessors?  Only one way to find out I guess !

 

I've seen a pattern so far that as the generations of chipsets improve their fab processes, we're also seeing improvements as audio streamer/servers (when fed good power etc).  i.e. SoCs are focussing on noise reduction to help with their own performance/stability goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, marce said:

Painting SMD IC's with a conductive liquid designed for connectors!!!!!

 

Not suggesting people do that. Just reporting my findings as there were questions about it earlier in the thread. 

Technically, the CPU socket is a type of connector... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/12/2019 at 3:30 PM, marce said:

I wouldn't recommend its use on motherboards and small connectors for DDR memory of CPU's. The oil can cause contaminants such as dust to stick and cause more problems. PCB assemblies such as motherboards are best kept clean...

Agree, I think these liquid are best used on interconnects/speaker wires connect only (maybe USB too??) where it is easier to clean up the mess!  Perhaps on the vacuum tubes connects to the socket and the DC/AC power cables. I would stay away from interior of the PC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having very good results with my new network topology. I'm now convinced that the electrical quality of the network that enters the server is also (very) important. Before the latest change, the NAS and AL Server were connected to the main switch.

The NAS and AL Server are electrically isolated from the AQVox. This was already the case in the past, the difference however is that the AL Server is no longer electrically connected to the rest of my network.

All switches, modem, NAS and AL Server have their separate LPS., as do the AQVox and sMS-200 Ultra.

 

I had bought an Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 10XP for other purposes, but I tried it in my setup and I was really surprised by the impact on the audio quality.

 

My Ubiquiti wireless AP's are all connected to the main switch!

 

I'm very curious if things will still even get better when I replace the AQVox with an EtherREGEN, it is already very very good.

 

 

 

1648297463_NetworkTopology2.png.eddb25f67ebfb8941968b69aa18685c3.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, afrancois said:

I'm having very good results with my new network topology. I'm now convinced that the electrical quality of the network that enters the server is also (very) important. Before the latest change, the NAS and AL Server were connected to the main switch.

The NAS and AL Server are electrically isolated from the AQVox. This was already the case in the past, the difference however is that the AL Server is no longer electrically connected to the rest of my network.

All switches, modem, NAS and AL Server have their separate LPS., as do the AQVox and sMS-200 Ultra.

 

I had bought an Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 10XP for other purposes, but I tried it in my setup and I was really surprised by the impact on the audio quality.

 

My Ubiquiti wireless AP's are all connected to the main switch!

 

I'm very curious if things will still even get better when I replace the AQVox with an EtherREGEN, it is already very very good.

 

 

 

1648297463_NetworkTopology2.png.eddb25f67ebfb8941968b69aa18685c3.png

 

😳say what?? I am counting four switches, a router and a modem or is the router and the modem one? What kind lps are you powering all does switches and routers? Must be a fortune on power supplies alone. And with what are you powering your NAS, server and sms endpoint? Have you tried your NAS in the main switch and the server where it is now?

Only one etherregen?

i think your NAS and server are so isolated they are electricly on an an other planet. 


Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Clock modded FS105 v3, Clock modded Isoregen, Lush^2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RickyV said:

 

😳say what?? I am counting four switches, a router and a modem or is the router and the modem one? What kind lps are you powering all does switches and routers? Must be a fortune on power supplies alone. And with what are you powering your NAS, server and sms endpoint? Have you tried your NAS in the main switch and the server where it is now?

Only one etherregen?

i think your NAS and server are so isolated they are electricly on an an other planet. 

First some history. Here in Belgium most modem/router/wireless AP are combined in one box.

I've always refused to have this kind of solution and so I pushed my provider to give  me a modem only. Then I went for a WiFi router that I later changed to a separate router and multiple wireless Access Points that are far away from my HiFi rig.

Afterwards, I went to a router and switches that have SFP ports for the known reason.

 

Modem: Motorola Cable Modem (small LPS)

Router: Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 6P (LPS)
Main switch: Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 48 Lite (powerful LPS)
Switch to AQVox: Ubiquiti EdgeSwich 10XP (LPS + 2 x LPS1 in series)
Switch to NAS & AL Server: Netgear GC110 (LPS)

Synology NAS for audio DS112+ (LPS)

AL Server: Intel NUC NUC7i7DNHE (LPS)

AQVOX (LPS + LPS1.2)

sMS-200 ultra (LPS + LPS1.2)

ISO REGEN (LPS + LPS1.2)

Mutec MC3+ USB (LPS + LPS1.2)

Lyngdorf DPA-1 pre-amp with femto clock upgrade powered by a separate LPS1.2

Lyngdorf Millenium MKIV amplifier for the main speakers

Lyngdorf Millenium MKIV amplifier for the sub-woofers + Mytek Brooklyn ADC

Speakers: Focal Sopra 2

 

Some LPS's are used to power more than one LPS1's or LPS1.2's.

 

I have the luxury that I can go overboard with my solution, because only my speakers and sub-woofers are in the living room, all the rest is in the garage adjacent to the living room. I think, I'm not the only here that goes to great lengths to get good sound 🙂

 

My old network infrastructure compared to my current network infrastructure is night and day sound wise.

 

Putting the NAS and AL Server on  a separate switch that is connected to the other switch using fiber, surprised me big time. 

 

When you have a streamer solution there a lot to be gained on the network side.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, afrancois said:

First some history. Here in Belgium most modem/router/wireless AP are combined in one box.

I've always refused to have this kind of solution and so I pushed my provider to give  me a modem only. Then I went for a WiFi router that I later changed to a separate router and multiple wireless Access Points that are far away from my HiFi rig.

Afterwards, I went to a router and switches that have SFP ports for the known reason.

 

Modem: Motorola Cable Modem (small LPS)

Router: Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 6P (LPS)
Main switch: Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 48 Lite (powerful LPS)
Switch to AQVox: Ubiquiti EdgeSwich 10XP (LPS + 2 x LPS1 in series)
Switch to NAS & AL Server: Netgear GC110 (LPS)

Synology NAS for audio DS112+ (LPS)

AL Server: Intel NUC NUC7i7DNHE (LPS)

AQVOX (LPS + LPS1.2)

sMS-200 ultra (LPS + LPS1.2)

ISO REGEN (LPS + LPS1.2)

Mutec MC3+ USB (LPS + LPS1.2)

Lyngdorf DPA-1 pre-amp with femto clock upgrade powered by a separate LPS1.2

Lyngdorf Millenium MKIV amplifier for the main speakers

Lyngdorf Millenium MKIV amplifier for the sub-woofers + Mytek Brooklyn ADC

Speakers: Focal Sopra 2

 

Some LPS's are used to power more than one LPS1's or LPS1.2's.

 

I have the luxury that I can go overboard with my solution, because only my speakers and sub-woofers are in the living room, all the rest is in the garage adjacent to the living room. I think, I'm not the only here that goes to great lengths to get good sound 🙂

 

My old network infrastructure compared to my current network infrastructure is night and day sound wise.

 

Putting the NAS and AL Server on  a separate switch that is connected to the other switch using fiber, surprised me big time. 

 

When you have a streamer solution there a lot to be gained on the network side.

 

 

Dutchy here, and holy crap me, that’s a lot of lps1.2’s you’re kidding around are you. 


Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Clock modded FS105 v3, Clock modded Isoregen, Lush^2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, afrancois said:

First some history. Here in Belgium most modem/router/wireless AP are combined in one box.

I've always refused to have this kind of solution and so I pushed my provider to give  me a modem only. Then I went for a WiFi router that I later changed to a separate router and multiple wireless Access Points that are far away from my HiFi rig.

Afterwards, I went to a router and switches that have SFP ports for the known reason.

 

Modem: Motorola Cable Modem (small LPS)

Router: Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 6P (LPS)
Main switch: Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 48 Lite (powerful LPS)
Switch to AQVox: Ubiquiti EdgeSwich 10XP (LPS + 2 x LPS1 in series)
Switch to NAS & AL Server: Netgear GC110 (LPS)

Synology NAS for audio DS112+ (LPS)

AL Server: Intel NUC NUC7i7DNHE (LPS)

AQVOX (LPS + LPS1.2)

sMS-200 ultra (LPS + LPS1.2)

ISO REGEN (LPS + LPS1.2)

Mutec MC3+ USB (LPS + LPS1.2)

Lyngdorf DPA-1 pre-amp with femto clock upgrade powered by a separate LPS1.2

Lyngdorf Millenium MKIV amplifier for the main speakers

Lyngdorf Millenium MKIV amplifier for the sub-woofers + Mytek Brooklyn ADC

Speakers: Focal Sopra 2

 

Some LPS's are used to power more than one LPS1's or LPS1.2's.

 

I have the luxury that I can go overboard with my solution, because only my speakers and sub-woofers are in the living room, all the rest is in the garage adjacent to the living room. I think, I'm not the only here that goes to great lengths to get good sound 🙂

 

My old network infrastructure compared to my current network infrastructure is night and day sound wise.

 

Putting the NAS and AL Server on  a separate switch that is connected to the other switch using fiber, surprised me big time. 

 

When you have a streamer solution there a lot to be gained on the network side.

 

 

Oops, I meant “not” kidding around of course. 

But I must say it looks a little extreme. I think with the etherregen you can simplify this. I am also waiting for the etherregen, it’s almost there.


Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Clock modded FS105 v3, Clock modded Isoregen, Lush^2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RickyV said:

 

Oops, I meant “not” kidding around of course. 

But I must say it looks a little extreme. I think with the etherregen you can simplify this. I am also waiting for the etherregen, it’s almost there.

We will see if one device will be able to solve all problems. If this would be true, you would no longer be able to tell the difference in servers. Interesting times. The 150 € I paid for the extra switch is peanuts, if you would hear what improvement it gave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've made many tweaks since my last post. None were worth posting. None have had the impact that the SFP fiber had.... until now. Townshends podiums are unbelievable. Bases/stands at the bottom of the speakers in the pictures.  The separation of sound is amaizing. You can place your hand on the top of the platform and feel the vibrations from all frequencies. Then you place your hand on the floor (second floor / wood, not concrete) and you feel nothing. The bass is clean, which I expected. What I did not expect was the clarity from the mids and highs. Unbelievable. 20190616_192558.thumb.jpg.ba50b7e49ef0059ada49ddc9153f4a52.jpgI did only one speaker first to have an a/b compare - and to save my back. These speakers weigh close to 300 pounds each. The difference is not subtle. I know many of you run headphones but those who do not, make the investment. Improvement is like going from a 6 to a 10, with only one speaker done. No telling what two will sound like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, EnjoyTheMusicNow said:

I've made many tweaks since my last post. None were worth posting. None have had the impact that the SFP fiber had.... until now. Townshends podiums are unbelievable. Bases/stands at the bottom of the speakers in the pictures.  The separation of sound is amaizing. You can place your hand on the top of the platform and feel the vibrations from all frequencies. Then you place your hand on the floor (second floor / wood, not concrete) and you feel nothing. The bass is clean, which I expected. What I did not expect was the clarity from the mids and highs. Unbelievable. 20190616_192558.thumb.jpg.ba50b7e49ef0059ada49ddc9153f4a52.jpgI did only one speaker first to have an a/b compare - and to save my back. These speakers weigh close to 300 pounds each. The difference is not subtle. I know many of you run headphones but those who do not, make the investment. Improvement is like going from a 6 to a 10, with only one speaker done. No telling what two will sound like.

You have a web link to these speakers ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, lmitche said:

These are very interesting speakers! Look stylish too but are they sound as great as the looks ? And musical enough? I see some do get paired with surround systems too. 

Oh well, the speakers cost  same as price of an apartment! No thanks, just way beyond my budget!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, EnjoyTheMusicNow said:

I've made many tweaks since my last post. None were worth posting. None have had the impact that the SFP fiber had.... until now. Townshends podiums are unbelievable. Bases/stands at the bottom of the speakers in the pictures.  The separation of sound is amaizing. You can place your hand on the top of the platform and feel the vibrations from all frequencies. Then you place your hand on the floor (second floor / wood, not concrete) and you feel nothing. The bass is clean, which I expected. What I did not expect was the clarity from the mids and highs. Unbelievable. 20190616_192558.thumb.jpg.ba50b7e49ef0059ada49ddc9153f4a52.jpgI did only one speaker first to have an a/b compare - and to save my back. These speakers weigh close to 300 pounds each. The difference is not subtle. I know many of you run headphones but those who do not, make the investment. Improvement is like going from a 6 to a 10, with only one speaker done. No telling what two will sound like.

 

@EnjoyTheMusicNow

I must strongly second your opinion. This was one of the first tweaks that gave a dramatic change in my system, bigger than changing DACs, servers or most of the other tweaks I’ve done. Better than running dedicated lines with Topaz xformer. 

 

I had my Tannoy Westminster GRs for 6 months before I got the (custom) podiums that Max made. Huge difference in the bass and mid bass. Got rid of all the unwanted direct room coupling. One of the best tweaks I’ve done. 

 

I have their stands under my REL G2s as well (temporarily off to optimize speaker placement). 

 

The other great thing about them is that they make the 400 lbs each Westminsters easy to move by my self. I just slide them around; it takes effort but I can do it alone. Great for position optimization.

 

9263175E-E29D-4D94-BEAB-D1484697DCBC.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...