A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Solid-State]

55 minutes ago, motberg said:

anyone using the Matrix element H Hi-Fi USB 3.0 ?

It seems maybe this card also uses the PCI-e power for processing, even if there is an external PS used...

 

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/matrix-element-h-hi-fi-usb-3-0-interface.html

looks like a SOtM clone, improvement
same chipset as SOtM,
Texas drivers for both
very similar layout,

 

but seems interesting because they have another clock

 

[Solid-State]

some rewivs

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/pc-htpc-modules/matrix-element-h-usb-controler-30-femtoclock-crystek-power-filter-p-13543.html

"Matrix Element H
This card has advantageously replaced the previous Matrix card of the first generation.
It brings more definition and therefore a better exploration of sound that results in a more natural restitution.
I use it on a Supermicro card for player use (config dual pc) connected to the interface Matrix i2s and dac Denafrips Terminator."

[sunny_time_99]

4 hours ago, TubeMan said:

looks like a SOtM clone, improvement
same chipset as SOtM,
Texas drivers for both
very similar layout,

 

but seems interesting because they have another clock

 

hi,

this is normal. most Designers are just taking the datasheet and build up the recommended circuid. thats it - no Magic!

the first time i saw that X-HI Version - that would be the one to take for me - ist easy to Change the onboard clock with a Neutron star. the sq-difference from that blue Jeans clock and the cchd575 is imho not that big, and not worth 100 bucks. much better is a seperate clock with seperate power supply and Isolation to prevend ground-loops. 

 

regards

 

sunny

[Chopin75]

On 3/26/2019 at 3:11 AM, romaz said:

 

When comparing AL vs Euphony, both were booted from a USB stick on the server and NUC endpoint.  I am not using an SSD at all (it's the last thing I would do).  Yes, both Euphony and AL can utilize an M.2 Optane card as a boot device.  An Optane card can function just like an SSD if you want it to and that is how I'm using it.  Optane cards don't generate anywhere close to the same amount of noise as SSDs.  The have a noise signature closer to RAM.

Interesting, good comparison. Note Euphony thinks the USB boot is not as good as SSD for its program (hence USB boot is for trial only), but I am not going to get into heated argument about this as I know the conclusion on this thread is that SSD is worst (worse than spinning HDD ??), I have not bothered to compare the 2.  But the optane could be an option. How does one load the Euphony into  M2 ?  I only know how to create it via USB attached to the SATA SSD. Would the same work for optane ?  

I suppose one can also try to compare euphony on SSD vs HDD, though I am not sure if it is worth the trouble.  It seems to be designed for internal SSD.  I am assuming the OS can tolerate whatever noise is in the drive so it won;t matter too much. But I can ask Euphony this too. 

[Blackmorec]

As far as i know, the very best units using SSDs do so for its speed and access (no spin up time, mechanical noise or vibration) then switch off the SSD and all its processes and play music from RAM.  In other words SSD is a storage medium that’s never running while music is playing

[Holzohr]

47 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

How does one load the Euphony into  M2 ?  I only know how to create it via USB attached to the SATA SSD. Would the same work for optane ?  

 

I did the install of the trial on my Optane stick this way: with help of an Ubuntu USB stick but as you already have paid for Euphony it should work via the Euphony USB stick.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55916-euphony-os-wstylus-player-setup-and-issues-thread/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-941032

[R1200CL]

A quick question. I like to test out the NUC endpoint option, while waiting for my opticalRendu. 

 

Is is is so easy to just download Audiolinux and then instal Roon Brigde http://kb.roonlabs.com/LinuxInstall ?

 

USB out to Singxer SU1 will work and Roon will discover?

[Holzohr]

2 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

A quick question. I like to test out the NUC endpoint option, while waiting for my opticalRendu. 

 

Is is is so easy to just download Audiolinux and then instal Roon Brigde http://kb.roonlabs.com/LinuxInstall ?

 

USB out to Singxer SU1 will work and Roon will discover?

 

Roon Bridge is already part of Audiolinux. No need to install it. You just have to enable it.

[Chopin75]

21 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

As far as i know, the very best units using SSDs do so for its speed and access (no spin up time, mechanical noise or vibration) then switch off the SSD and all its processes and play music from RAM.  In other words SSD is a storage medium that’s never running while music is playing

Good point,. Euphony partially does that if you choose 100% buffer with the music file in RAM,  but the Stylus player is still running form the SSD. Anyway, Euphpony appears to use a different approach from AL so may be difficult to compare. Perhaps it can deal with noisy SSD more than other OS (just a thought, not fact). 

[LTG2010]

1 hour ago, Chopin75 said:

Interesting, good comparison. Note Euphony thinks the USB boot is not as good as SSD for its program (hence USB boot is for trial only)

It all depends on the system.

Here, Euphony didn't sound impressive via USB in comparison to Audiolinux ramroot system. To be fair Audiolinux via USB stick playback isn't as good either. Its not just a reduction in brightness, I can hear more detail, transparancy, space, naturalness, when in ramroot.

I read the recomendation regarding SSD so I dug out an old intel slc ssd, managed to burn the Euphony image to it and 'bingo' now I could hear what the fuss was about it was still slightly bright but far superior than the USB stick, I was using. I connected via SATA ( my board has direct to CPU SATA) and also via my USB card using a SATA to USB adapter, both very good.

I couldn't try the Stylus player - ram cache as my DAC was not recognised so I could only use Roon.

Playback from Ram is also used by Innuos as a way to cut down distortion, but it doesn't equal A RAM OS in my opinion.

RAM has the lowest latency, speed measured - ns whereas SSD including NVME / Optane -ms. It also has the first call to the processor.

 

[Nenon]

3 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Good point,. Euphony partially does that if you choose 100% buffer with the music file in RAM,  but the Stylus player is still running form the SSD. Anyway, Euphpony appears to use a different approach from AL so may be difficult to compare. 

 

I think the important part is to shutdown the SSD while playing, so that it would not generate any noise. I have always wondered why Innuos wrote their custom BIOS and what's in that BIOS. Better control of the SSD controller might be part of it. 

[hurka]

12 rails,50 lt 3045,r core transformers, audio gd he350 test tomorrow,lan,wifi off,single pc design must be good, but ....

 

[Chopin75]

26 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

I did the install of the trial on my Optane stick this way: with help of an Ubuntu USB stick but as you already have paid for Euphony it should work via the Euphony USB stick.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55916-euphony-os-wstylus-player-setup-and-issues-thread/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-941032

OK, my stupid Dell screen is too blurred to see what you did. But I presume you have the Optane M2 internally attached to the PC and then copy the euphony image to it ? (from the USB stick or just make a new image). I don't have a PC with windows that I can attach the optane. I may need to attach the optane externally to my Mac and then copy the image that way, liek I did with my SATA drive ?  There is also an Optane Sata 2.5" but it is way more expensive!! 

 

if someone can test out running local SSD vs Optane M2 then perhaps I would be motivated to do this change......

[hurka]

Chinese fixed voltages board modification,now variable..

[Chopin75]

12 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

I think the important part is to shutdown the SSD while playing, so that it would not generate any noise. I have always wondered why Innuos wrote their custom BIOS and what's in that BIOS. Better control of the SSD controller might be part of it. 

I don't think SSD can be shut down for Euphony, as it is not running in RAM but perhaps the OS is going to a quiet mode during music playback even using Stylus. I have noticed Euphony is very efficient, using less RAM and CPU than regular computer OS. 

[hurka]

Hpuln mini 8 rails psu.....

[Dutch]

3 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

I don't think SSD can be shut down for Euphony, as it is not running in RAM but perhaps the OS is going to a quiet mode during music playback even using Stylus. I have noticed Euphony is very efficient, using less RAM and CPU than regular computer OS. 

 

Exactly, and the same goes for Innuos. You can’t just shut down a SSD when it’s not used since the OS is constantly doing things on disk. The disk not being there would result in a system crash immediately. The best one could do (besides running everything from RAM) is minimize OS/software processes needing to access the disk and/or -maybe- enable agressive power saving which can put the SSD’s into a low power state. Still not the same as no disk/the disk being “shut down”.

 

Needing the disk is nothing but a compromise for stability/usability in commercial OS’es. It being SSD’s is a compromise to cut costs.

[Dutch]

5 minutes ago, hurka said:

Hpuln mini 8 rails psu.....

 

What are you showing in both your posts. Some text explaining would be welcome and useful.

[Holzohr]

16 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

OK, my stupid Dell screen is too blurred to see what you did. But I presume you have the Optane M2 internally attached to the PC and then copy the euphony image to it ? (from the USB stick or just make a new image). I don't have a PC with windows that I can attach the optane. I may need to attach the optane externally to my Mac and then copy the image that way, liek I did with my SATA drive ?  There is also an Optane Sata 2.5" but it is way more expensive!!

 

Yes, I have a 32 GB Optane stick in my "music server". You must unpack the Euphony image from the euphony.img.gz file before so that you have an euphony.img file. This file you move to a normal USB stick. Then you must boot your pc with a Linux Live USB stick. I used Ubuntu. It comes with useful tools as Gparted and Disks.With Disks you can restore the image. Just choose the euphony.img file from the normal USB stick.

[hurka]

4 minutes ago, Dutch said:

 

What are you showing in both your posts. Some text explaining would be welcome and useful.

Without power regenerator this modul just crappy.better solution lps1.2 . But 8 pcs!!!

[Nenon]

9 minutes ago, Dutch said:

You can’t just shut down a SSD when it’s not used since the OS is constantly doing things on disk.

 

You certainly can by moving things to RAM. I am not suggesting Innuos does hat. But carefully designed OS/app/hardware interaction can achieve that. Roon for instance is constantly monitoring your music folders, which is probably not a good thing for noise generated by your storage media. 

[hurka]

Here just talk about drives and ssd, but we need 8x sr7 or better psu. This is funny...

[Dutch]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

You certainly can by moving things to RAM. I am not suggesting Innuos does hat. But carefully designed OS/app/hardware interaction can achieve that. Roon for instance is constantly monitoring your music folders, which is probably not a good thing for noise generated by your storage media. 

 

Looks like you didn’t read my entire post.

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Dutch said:

 

Looks like you didn’t read my entire post. 

 

Yes, I did :).

 

We have different OS flavors and software players that do bits and pieces. None to my knowledge is doing all the optimizations that help or at least don't hurt too much) the sound quality. I would really like to see a platform that takes advantage of a combination of things:

- AL-like optimized OS running in RAM

- Enable the SSD controller only to copy the music in RAM; disable right away

- Roon-like interface, metadata, etc.

Euphony is still on my list to explore, but from what I am reading so far there are definitely things we can learn from them as well. Or maybe, it is an end-game... nah, I don't believe that

 

[Dutch]

35 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Yes, I did :).

 

We have different OS flavors and software players that do bits and pieces. None to my knowledge is doing all the optimizations that help or at least don't hurt too much) the sound quality. I would really like to see a platform that takes advantage of a combination of things:

- AL-like optimized OS running in RAM

- Enable the SSD controller only to copy the music in RAM; disable right away

- Roon-like interface, metadata, etc.

Euphony is still on my list to explore, but from what I am reading so far there are definitely things we can learn from them as well. Or maybe, it is an end-game... nah, I don't believe that

 

 

Sorry, I misunderstood your previous post. We surely agree!