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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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28 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

I would consider the tX-USBultra to have equivalent impact to the sNH-10G at this time but because the sNH-10G also very significantly improves the Tivo/Netflix/Vudu streams that go through my Oppo player, if I was forced to choose one device, I would choose the sNH-10G.  

 

Thanks Roy,

 

Greatly appreciated.

 

The sting in the tail appears to be the leap in quality observed with a pretty much unobtainable SR7. I guess there's the option of taking your chances in the SR4 queue but I gather even that's a hassle.

 

Would a Sean Jacobs DC-3 be the next logical choice if looking for amperage headroom over the LPS-1.2?

 

The Netflix comment is pretty compelling too. I'd read your review of the sNH-10G where you made a similar comment.

 

I recently bought the Apple TV 4k box to improve the quality of my AV streaming and the prospect of connecting it to the sNH-10G for better picture quality definitely appeals.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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39 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

Hi Chris, a Reader's Digest version is not so easy to do.  If you're looking for good sound that is reasonably priced but also portable and if you're committed to staying with your 2011 i7 MBP, it may be best just to stay with A+ since that is a very good platform for the Mac. 

 

Consider powering your Qutest with an LPS-1.2, it's better than a battery.  The M-Scaler is different.  It appears that the FPGA in M-Scaler upsamples at a steady rate and consequently, it consumes current at a steady rate.  In other words, M-Scaler doesn't really benefit from a low impedance PSU, just a low noise PSU and so I have found this inexpensive 16V battery to almost compete toe to toe against a DR SR7:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015OAJFOC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Just make sure you don't go beyond 16V on the M-Scaler.

 

Without breaking the bank, because these units are portable and easy to travel with, consider adding an Iso-Regen and LPS-1.2 to your laptop.  I sometimes travel with my Iso-Regen and LPS-1.2.  If you wish to go beyond this, just PM me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks  a lot  for your response.

The powerbank PILOT Pro 2 you suggest is something I have been trying to find for quite a while. But unfortunately I  have been unable to find one  anywhere in Singapore or KL this winter,

 

Rob also suggested the same unit.

 

But it seems to be out of stock everywhere I have tried so far.

 

There is obviously a new model  available.

 

But my limited tech knowledge and no indication from Rob of an alternative to the Pilot Pro2 made me  stick to the supplied PSU  for  my HMS so far.

 

I will look into the LPS1.2 you suggest for my Qutest.

 

But the battery powered linear supply  I have been using for a couple of months now was a clear improvement on the supplied switching PSU that came with my Qutest.

 

Audibly cleaner than the supplied unit with demanding classical material.

The only drawback compared to the supplied unit being that I can only listen for 3-4 hours before its needs charging.

 

And the wallpower quality here in Malaysia ,Singapore and Thailand where I have spent most of this winter varies a LOT!

I will also check out the iso Regen.

 Thanks again Chris.

 

Quote

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, austinpop said:

The fact that music files in RAM still sounds better suggests that Euphony are on to something with their file caching feature. To my knowledge, that isn't something AL does. Perhaps this explains why Roy found he liked Euphony on the Roon Server.

 

The file caching and memory playback features can probably only work when using the Stylus player, I’m not sure if Romaz used that in his comparisons or Roon.

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On 3/24/2019 at 9:50 PM, romaz said:

With the SR7 powering the i7 NUC, I can push as far as the i7-8650U will go (maxes out at 3.8GHz even though Intel claims it can go to 4GHz) and unacceptable harshness never really becomes an issue but this depends on the server CPU frequency.

 

Just as an FYI;

Regarding the max speeds; beyond the base operating frequency anything above is considered ‘turbo’ with the i7 CPU’s. The max turbo speed is defined by the number of cores running at max. turbo simultaneously at any single time. For the i7 8650U the max speeds are:

 

Turbo Frequency 4,200 MHz (1 core),
4,200 MHz (2 cores),
3,900 MHz (3 cores),
3,900 MHz (4 cores)

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8650u

 

For the i7 8700t these are:

 

Frequency 2,400 MHz
Turbo Frequency 4,000 MHz (1 core),
3,900 MHz (2 cores),
3,900 MHz (3 cores),
3,900 MHz (4 cores),
3,800 MHz (5 cores),
3,800 MHz (6 cores)

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8700t

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20 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

If price is not an issue, I can't deny the huge appeal of a one-box solution like the Statement. It seems to get so many things right - like the bespoke multi-rail, dual-regulated PSU, the upgraded clocks and so on. The main question is how the CPU/mobo compares to the empirically good sounding combo of the NUC/server that Roy, I, and others are playing with. 

 

 

You are now on the hook to report back here with your findings, y'hear? :) 

 

I want to know how these compare:

  • Statement vs. SE
  • Statement vs. SE+tX-U
  • Statement vs. Statement+tX-U.

I can answer some of those questions. First point, before any comparisons it seems that anything with Mundorf capacitors takes a long time to run in. A well run in Zenith SE on a fully optimised Sean Jacobs DC3 powered network will outperform a new Statement in terms of musical satisfaction. A well run-in Statement on the same network will move things solidly in the direction of  live music.  

 

Adding a tX-USBultra with sPS-500  to my Zenith SE made the unit sound slightly overhyped and I preferred it simply with a straight USB cable. I tried it with the standard wal wart supply and that made things worse. In my experience and my system I would guess that the tX-USBultra would need a really good LPS of the DC3, LPS-1.2 or SR-4 ilk in order to contribute positively, but that is a guess because I didn’t try it.  Generally products like the tX-USBultra are designed to remove shortcomings from the USB stream. IMO, the SE has very few such shortcomings to work on and the Statement none that something like a tX would rectify. 

 

Having said that, if i was a new ZenithSE or Statement owner looking to get the most out of my unit, I’d 100% spend my money on the front end....on providing a kick-ass, utterly solid data stream with SOTA power, vibration isolation and the best cables I can find...only then will you discover how good these Innuos units really are. 

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19 hours ago, ted_b said:

Yes, we use a startech USB 3.1 card and a Startech USB 3.1 hdd enclosure, separately powered.  The JCAT card is great too. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XLAZEFC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Any idea why a 6TB limit would be in the description of the Amazon website?  I couldn't find that same limit in Startech's page.

 

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Enclosures/usb-3-1-sata-drive-enclosure~S351BU313

 

I can't think of a reason why there'd be a drive capacity limit at all.

Any knowledge on this @lmitche ?

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4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Any idea why a 6TB limit would be in the description of the Amazon website?  I couldn't find that same limit in Startech's page.

 

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Enclosures/usb-3-1-sata-drive-enclosure~S351BU313

 

I can't think of a reason why there'd be a drive capacity limit at all.

Any knowledge on this @lmitche ?

Where is the 6tb limit you refer to?

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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Yes, after reading some, if it supports 6Tb then it supports 32 bit LBA, which means 8 TB is in spec.  ?  Mine houses a 6TB "favorites" music subset library (wow, I need a new hobby).

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4 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Yes, after reading some, if it supports 6Tb then it supports 32 bit LBA, which means 8 TB is in spec.  ?  Mine houses a 6TB "favorites" music subset library (wow, I need a new hobby).

 

The chipset in the Startech enclosure supports 48 bit LBA

ASMedia - ASM1351

 

I contacted Startech.  They said they see no reason why it couldn't support larger than 6TB.  I specifically asked them about 10TB.

 

Like you Ted I have a lot of music, currently stored on my NAS, and ever growing.  Time to see if there's any SQ benefit to direct USB storage over the NAS.

 

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2 hours ago, Dutch said:

 

Just as an FYI;

Regarding the max speeds; beyond the base operating frequency anything above is considered ‘turbo’ with the i7 CPU’s. The max turbo speed is defined by the number of cores running at max. turbo simultaneously at any single time. For the i7 8650U the max speeds are:

 

Turbo Frequency 4,200 MHz (1 core),
4,200 MHz (2 cores),
3,900 MHz (3 cores),
3,900 MHz (4 cores)

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8650u

 

For the i7 8700t these are:

 

Frequency 2,400 MHz
Turbo Frequency 4,000 MHz (1 core),
3,900 MHz (2 cores),
3,900 MHz (3 cores),
3,900 MHz (4 cores),
3,800 MHz (5 cores),
3,800 MHz (6 cores)

 

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i7/i7-8700t

 

Nice find! That explains the mystery.

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Lot of people reading this with kick-ass streaming systems.  If you like Classical Music, even just a little bit then this is for you. 

Internet Radio. I’m not joking. 

Radio Swiss Classic  SGR-SSR

 

The technology is 320 Kbps and frankly with today’s servers, streamers and DACs that’s not a real issue from a sound quality point of view. It may not be the best but its absolutely good enough to let you thoroughly enjoy the performances without much compromise.

And here’s the but.....It may be only 320kbs but the recordings themselves are absolutely first rate.  Tonally and spacially accurate and well diffentiated, dynamically well integrated, the performances are of really choice pieces and the musicianship first rate.  Don’t be put off by the announcers tonal balance, its different to the music’s and not the same between different presenters. The music is really sweet and beautifully presented and has a consistently high quality (I’ve actually yet to hear a bad recording).  The sense of performance, rhythmic drive and vibrancy come across in spades so not a lot is missing. Piano sounds remarkably realistic and the venue acoustics are almost always present....pretty damned good I’d say and for free its the best value you can ever get.  

 

Sorry for the HUGE off topic.....just listening myself and thought you all deserved a treat 😊

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1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

The technology is 320 Kbps and frankly with today’s servers, streamers and DACs that’s not a real issue from a sound quality point of view.

 

Thanks,

but on the HP they say maximum is 128 Kbps.

Do you have a link to 320 Kbps?

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 4:25 AM, austinpop said:

SR4-12V vs. sPS-500-19V on the NUC i7:

  •  That 19V sure helps dynamics, even though the SR-4 is cleaner and less harsh. Still, powering the NUC i7 with an sPS-500-19 sounds very good, and allowed me to free up the SR4. So, where to put this newly freed SR4 - the switch or the JCAT card?

 

G'day Rajiv

 

Thanks for another excellent write up and of course thanks to @romaz for the amazing post that I have spent the last several days reading over several times 😁

 

Just thought I would jump in here to let you know that I have recently tried the JSGT trick on the sps500 and even though the DC output is reportedly already connected internally to ac ground there is a very worthwhile reduction in harshness.

 

The easiest way I find is to get some old speaker cable (I'm using 14AWG OFC) and make a little "y" shape at one to wrap around the DC plug....then twist the "y" shape together around the DC plug and it will tighten right up... then run that to ac ground 😁

 

I am also using a furutech TCS 21 power cord and good vibration control on the sps500 ac plug and chassis.

 

They won't make it sound like an SR7 🤣 ....but they are worthwhile improvements 😁

 

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Also I should add to my last post (but it's too late to edit) that there seems to be further improvement by using thicker or multiple cables to ground....for example if you're using a gs105 with the JSGT trick then make sure u are using at least a good quality 14awg cable for ground and preferably a couple...I find there's improvements across the frequency range ...bigger soundstage, tighter bass, more dynamic and better tone.

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On 3/26/2019 at 8:47 PM, Nenon said:

 

That would be very interesting. The content in a file is the same no matter where it is stored. I am guessing the audible differences we hear are due to some noise generated while pulling the file from its storage media. Does anyone have a better explanation? My guess is if can get to the bottom of that we might be able to create a buffer/reclocker/regenerator/whatever-you-want-to-call-it for files. If we can get those files to the RAM from any storage media without that noise, and play them from the RAM, I am guessing the storage would not matter that much.

A while back I was using ssd to store my music and experimenting with external hdd (usb connected ). 

My server is run on Daphile who can load the music in ram and play it from ram.  

 

I was loading in ram the exact same music file coming from ssd and hddd. 

 

The music was always better coming from hdd !

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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On 3/26/2019 at 8:34 PM, austinpop said:

 

Many thanks to Kevin @elan120 for whipping up a Visio of my crude sketch during a boring conference call at work!

 

Server-topology.png

 

 

Please see the position of the NAS in my topology above. It is a stock Synology 4-bay with HDDs and stock SMPS. I have a pending test to compare a track pulled from the NAS to the same placed in RAM (somewhere in the root partition) to the same read from the Optane SSD. My hope is that with my new topology, the SQ from the NAS is as good as the other 2. I'll update once I know.

Rajiv ,

 

I can see from this schematic that you are running your tx ultra at 12v .

Is it better in term of sq than running at 9v. If yes what does it brings in term of sq. 

 

May  from SOtM says they were recommending 9v. 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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3 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

Rajiv ,

 

I can see from this schematic that you are running your tx ultra at 12v .

Is it better in term of sq than running at 9v. If yes what does it brings in term of sq. 

 

May  from SOtM says they were recommending 9v. 

When I asked May about this, probably more than a year ago, she said there might be better sound quality from running at 12V but there might also be heat issues for some people doing this.  I didn’t press to get a better understanding of what the heat issues were, and I haven’t yet tried switching to 12V.

Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se

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2 hours ago, str-1 said:

When I asked May about this, probably more than a year ago, she said there might be better sound quality from running at 12V but there might also be heat issues for some people doing this.  I didn’t press to get a better understanding of what the heat issues were, and I haven’t yet tried switching to 12V.

 

I've been running my tX-USBultra at 12v without any heat issues.  There was no perceptible change when I switched from 9v.  I did not take any temperature measurements.

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I've been running my tX-USBultra at 12v without any heat issues.  There was no perceptible change when I switched from 9v.  I did not take any temperature measurements.

Did you find it worthwhile switching to 12V?

Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se

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26 minutes ago, str-1 said:

Did you find it worthwhile switching to 12V?

 

At the time of the switch, any change was only barely perceptible.  I don't know if I could have consistently heard a difference in a blind listening test.  With the more resolving system that I have now, the result might be slightly more discernible.

 

If you want to make a significant change in your tX, then get the Evox cap and upgrade the internal DC cable to the Audio Sensibility custom silver JSSG wire.  You'll feel like you have an entirely new device.  If that upgrade is 100, then changing to 12v is no more than 5.

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

At the time of the switch, any change was only barely perceptible.  I don't know if I could have consistently heard a difference in a blind listening test.  With the more resolving system that I have now, the result might be slightly more discernible.

 

If you want to make a significant change in your tX, then get the Evox cap and upgrade the internal DC cable to the Audio Sensibility custom silver JSSG wire.  You'll feel like you have an entirely new device.  If that upgrade is 100, then changing to 12v is no more than 5.

So Audio Sensibility did the upgrade for you or you request the wire from SOtM?

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