A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[numlog]

no, it means underclock with a user defined clock speed.

 

 

[Iving]

15 minutes ago, numlog said:

no, it means underclock with a user defined clock speed.

 

 

If you mean "user defined" in Windows (CP/Power) then anything <100% ineffective unless BIOS Speedstep etc On. Oh well - that is my experience.

[numlog]

in BIOS

[Iving]

2 minutes ago, numlog said:

in BIOS

OK - same idea tho' - CPU throttling mucks up SQ (on the whole more than SQ effect attributable to a different CPU unthrottled)

[numlog]

7 hours ago, Iving said:

OK - same idea tho' - CPU throttling mucks up SQ (on the whole more than SQ effect attributable to a different CPU unthrottled)

ok so you are saying CPUs have a  ''native'' frequency?

[Iving]

3 minutes ago, numlog said:

ok so you are saying CPUs have a  ''native'' frequency?

nice inductive - faulty deductive 🙂

[numlog]

?

 

Im talking about a fixed frequency underclock in BIOS with speedstep disabled,

hardware analysis software reports the set frequency. 

Do you still mean speedstep when you say ''CPU throttling''?

 

 

[Iving]

4 minutes ago, numlog said:

?

 

Im talking about a fixed frequency underclock in BIOS with speedstep disabled,

hardware analysis software reports the set frequency. 

Do you still mean speedstep when you say ''CPU throttling''?

 

 

I have never set a user-defined fixed frequency in BIOS.

Yes - I do understand Speedstep (or parallel BIOS settings) a pre-requisite for throttling in Windows.

I am suggesting as a conversational and general proposition that CPU throttling is not good for SQ.

Sorry that I can't match your specific experiences.

[numlog]

I agree.

The original point was that setting frequency manually, regardless of speedstep/other setting, should give an idea how frequency alone will influence sound.

So its unusual that, after both of us noting those influences, a new CPU with different speed among other things would sound the same.

 

[Iving]

3 minutes ago, numlog said:

I agree.

The original point was that setting frequency manually, regardless of speedstep/other setting, should give an idea how frequency alone will influence sound.

So its unusual that, after both of us noting those influences, a new CPU with different speed among other things would sound the same.

 

I haven't followed your posts; however, I'd have thought that a direct comparison of two different CPUs would require an awful lot of "all other things equal" (experimental) control.

All the same, I buy the idea (for argument's sake) that two unthrottled (not terribly dissimilar in terms of evolutionary technology) CPUs would sound more "similar" than a throttled CPU vs. an unthrottled one ... and that unthrottled ones would sound better than throttled ones.

Although I haven't done it, the idea that fiddling with CPU frequencies in BIOS would "influence sound" - and do so negatively - would appeal to me because of my prejudice against throttling.

Anyway, I posted my remarks in response to, and sympathetically with, your post, " I find it really unusual that different speeds on the same CPU has an effect on sound but a different CPU with entirely different specs, including speed, does not" supra.

[numlog]

It would, that's the trouble with trying to answer that question or even compile some meaningful evidence,

close to impossible in such a niche area.

 

you might be happy to know this type underclocking did not have a positive influence on sound ime, though some people found it did. 

 

I am taking that as sign that the higher the speed, the better and as a reason to consider a  more powerful CPU as a potential upgrade.

[Iving]

4 minutes ago, numlog said:

you might be happy to know this type underclocking did not have a positive influence on sound

Yes - delighted

 

the higher the speed, the better

Yes - presuming no overclocking

 

consider a  more powerful CPU as a potential upgrade

Yes - that is how I tend to think

 

[austinpop]

Folks, please describe your experiment and what you heard.

 

Let's not get into sweeping generalizations and meta-arguments.

[numlog]

7 hours ago, Iving said:

Yes - presuming no overclocking

that's another interesting subject that I havent explored, assuming you have experimented with overclocking why dont you recommend it?

 

[Iving]

13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Folks, please describe your experiment and what you heard.

 

Let's not get into sweeping generalizations and meta-arguments.

Numlog and I shared compatible empirically-derived conclusions.

 

Our observations are relevant to the "NUC" debate - whether you like them or not.

 

There are no meta-arguments anywhere.

 

(To date) we have got on famously and have set a good example.

[Iving]

2 minutes ago, numlog said:

that's another interesting subject that I havent explored, assuming you have experimented with overclocking why dont you recommend it?

 

SQ better with Turbo Off in BIOS

Anyway - I'm scarpering - about to get an unfair detention ...

[mikicasellas]

Hi Gents,

 

I am considering which step to follow in this NUC (endpoint/server) venture:

 

I already have the NUC7PYCH with AL booted in RAM and using a MacMini (late 2012) as a Roon server.

 

Cause i go step by step on a budget, i am not sure if my next logical step should be getting a NUC Intel NUC7i7DNHE or a more flexible PC in order to replace the Mac mini as the Server or keep the Mac mini and replace the NUC7PYCH with the NUC7i7DNHE to elevate SQ.

 

What do you guys think would be the reasonable step to follow? for those who has tried both experiences?

either way i cold make another replacement later being on the endpoint or the server, just like to know where to put the coin now wisely.

 

Can anyone share also the way to make the Bridge between the two devices?

 

Regards to all

 

 

[davide256]

2 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

Hi Gents,

 

I am considering which step to follow in this NUC (endpoint/server) venture:

 

I already have the NUC7PYCH with AL booted in RAM and using a MacMini (late 2012) as a Roon server.

 

Cause i go step by step on a budget, i am not sure if my next logical step should be getting a NUC Intel NUC7i7DNHE or a more flexible PC in order to replace the Mac mini as the Server or keep the Mac mini and replace the NUC7PYCH with the NUC7i7DNHE to elevate SQ.

 

What do you guys think would be the reasonable step to follow? for those who has tried both experiences?

either way i cold make another replacement later being on the endpoint or the server, just like to know where to put the coin now wisely.

 

Can anyone share also the way to make the Bridge between the two devices?

 

Regards to all

 

 

you might want to play with running the 7PJYH as AL Roon server with local USB to DAC. It’s a bit slow on initial library scan and track  preset measurements but once done works fine if like me you don’t oversample. I found the older PC I was using as Roon server faster on library functions but it rounded transients in comparison to using AL/ NUC 7PJYH as an all in one Roon device. Given all the chatter on server hw components, I don’t think the dust has settled on best build for server... waiting to hear more about JCAT ethernet board benefits as that could rule out server choices without a PCIE slot

that could rule out NUC for server choice ... no slots for the board

[Dutch]

 

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

that could rule out NUC for server choice ... no slots for the board

 

Not necessarily 😉

 

https://jcat.eu/install-jcat-cards/

 

 

 

[mikicasellas]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

you might want to play with running the 7PJYH as AL Roon server with local USB to DAC. It’s a bit slow on initial library scan and track  preset measurements but once done works fine if like me you don’t oversample. I found the older PC I was using as Roon server faster on library functions but it rounded transients in comparison to using AL/ NUC 7PJYH as an all in one Roon device. Given all the chatter on server hw components, I don’t think the dust has settled on best build for server... waiting to hear more about JCAT ethernet board benefits as that could rule out server choices without a PCIE slot

that could rule out NUC for server choice ... no slots for the board

 

Thanks for the tip Dave,

 

Indeed dust still in the air, but the idea of trying the NUC as AL Roon server is great !!, i will...

 

Having the JCAT ethernet board without a PCIE slot with the NUC as a server sounds great, but i guess i missed some part of this forum where there is explained on how to achieve that...

[mikicasellas]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

you might want to play with running the 7PJYH as AL Roon server with local USB to DAC. It’s a bit slow on initial library scan and track  preset measurements but once done works fine if like me you don’t oversample. I found the older PC I was using as Roon server faster on library functions but it rounded transients in comparison to using AL/ NUC 7PJYH as an all in one Roon device. Given all the chatter on server hw components, I don’t think the dust has settled on best build for server... waiting to hear more about JCAT ethernet board benefits as that could rule out server choices without a PCIE slot

that could rule out NUC for server choice ... no slots for the board

Dave,

 

Do i need to put an SSD on the NUC in order to install Roon, or can i just do it from the USB stick selecting in AL menu "Roon Server"?

[mikicasellas]

I'm not clear of having the JCAT Net Femto if i am planning to purchase the Ether Regen.

 

I have been understanding that the EtherRegen will be a solution that will let us get rid of other add ons on the Source chain.

 

What am i missing here?

[Dutch]

28 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

Having the JCAT ethernet board without a PCIE slot with the NUC as a server sounds great, but i guess i missed some part of this forum where there is explained on how to achieve that...

 

You haven’t missed that on this forum. Although there’s several people using the JCAT Net card, none have installed it into a NUC endpoint or NUC server (or reported it). They’ve installed the card into DIY servers using (m)ATX/ITX form factor motherboards.

[Dutch]

13 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

I'm not clear of having the JCAT Net Femto if i am planning to purchase the Ether Regen.

 

I have been understanding that the EtherRegen will be a solution that will let us get rid of other add ons on the Source chain.

 

What am i missing here?

 

It’s theory vs. real world. No one knows how well the etherREGEN will perform since it’s not available yet.

 

Recent reports by Austinpop who wrote that the JCAT Net card gave significant improvements in his and Romaz’s setup while also a SOtM switch was in use in between the server (which holds the JCAT) and their NUCs (with upgraded clocks) indicates the etherREGEN will have to perform -really- well to render any other optimizations earlier in the chain redundant. It’s not unthinkable the server network interface may still matter in such a setup or even that some of these devices in series (eg. two etherREGENs) could further improve things. It’s what we discussed yesterday in this topic.

[Dutch]

20 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

Dave,

 

Do i need to put an SSD on the NUC in order to install Roon, or can i just do it from the USB stick selecting in AL menu "Roon Server"?

 

You have a lot to catch up on, this has all been discussed in this or the Audiolinux topics, multiple times.