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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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34 minutes ago, rickca said:

I still don't get it.  What molex on the motherboard?  Are you saying that your motherboard (which delivers power to the PCIe slots) is powered by your HDPLEX?  How is this supplying dedicated PCIe power from the HDPLEX?  Sorry if I'm just being dense.  I can't really tell what you're doing from the pictures alone.

OK now I see what you mean.  I didn't realize the Z270-WS has a 6-pin for the PCIe slots on the motherboard.  I've never seen that feature before.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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17 minutes ago, numlog said:

by cutting PCIe power pin traces and soldering on an external supply, a sloppy solution but it works. just after finding that this guy found another way. this one doesnt require modding but uses 5V external power when M.2 are powered with 3.3V( probably for the same reason the adapter uses 12V from PCIe slot, because PC 3.3V rail is expected to be dirty), with probably a DC-DC converter onboard to drop it down, so Id still prefer modify the adapter and use my own 3.3V supply.

OK, that kind of mod is way beyond my DIY skills.  I'd forgotten that Roy mentioned that Addonics card.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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 my Mobo has a M.2 Slot and using this slot is really the only way for me to use full speed m.2, because running both x16 pcie slots  at  x4 or more disables x1 slots, meaning I cant use USB card (and that would also mean downgrading to previous USB3.0 card cos the USB3.1 card uses a  x16 slot).

But the M.2 slot on the MoBo turns out to be best way. right beside it is a big 3.3v linear regulator, its nice the MoBo is already cleaning up the power a bit but it means there is an easy way to disconnect the MoBos power and connect external supply to the M.2 card

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On 1/4/2018 at 6:36 AM, seeteeyou said:

Has anyone tried the LattePanda Alpha yet?

 

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1728.html

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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45 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Has anyone tried the LattePanda Alpha yet?

 

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1728.html

 

Not for audio, but this guy put it on a test bench. (Perhaps you've already seen it?  Not to worry, the hard-hitting headline turns out to be about Arduino, which I'm assuming you don't much care about.) https://www.mickmake.com/post/lattepanda-alpha-the-big-mistake-review

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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2 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Not for audio, but this guy put it on a test bench. (Perhaps you've already seen it?  Not to worry, the hard-hitting headline turns out to be about Arduino, which I'm assuming you don't much care about.) https://www.mickmake.com/post/lattepanda-alpha-the-big-mistake-review

Just saw it as well. Th headline is very NY Post-esque. 

 

This board could be really cool fo audio.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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15 minutes ago, marce said:

Sorry for the technical intrusion

 

Don't know about anyone else, but I don't mind this particular "technical intrusion" at all.

 

I'm supposing you haven't found one or more of these small devices (particularly those with Intel CPUs - @jabbr loves a good challenge, but I'm getting old and don't especially want to play around with Linux distros for ARM) that do have good layouts for audio?

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Has anyone tried the LattePanda Alpha yet?

 

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1728.html

 

Yup, had one for over a year. Too many droputs with DSD512/PCM768KHZ.

 

Jussi’s recommended UpBoard Gateway (I’ve linked a few times in this thread) is much better.

 

Very low power consumption too. Easily boots and works from a USB3.0 port - for no screen/keyboard/mouse connected and DAC that isn’t 5V bus powered.

 

Edit: my LattePanda isn’t the big Alpha that you linked but much smaller and cheaper Intel Atom model

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22 minutes ago, marce said:

Its a board designed to do a job, low noise audio is not one of them I suspect.

Don’t know and don’t have one. Designed and sold by Solid-Run which does have a surprising track record in audiophile products perhaps behind the scenes. I believe they use the Allegro design suite so perhaps the 3D is better than you predict?

 

However, this board doesn’t have an audio output so are you suggesting the USB output has high noise? (It certainly might) — that said it has a couple(!) Of 10G fiber slots so I’m assuming it meets 10GBase-X standards which are reasonable strict —- have to hit that 10G eye pattern ;) 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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All signal lines are run microstrip, on the top layer, with HDI you can run them stripline, buried between two return paths (0V;s for most signals, DDR power and 0V;s the signals are referenced  by Vtt, half the supply voltage so the best return paths in this instance are 0V and full supply. It's all about the detail and about the noise and burred signals are easier to control, with microvias you don't have the same issues as you do with through hole vias, no stubs, the via goes to the layer you want. It was a comment from my day job, and one layout error I would not have made. Sorry to be blunt about it but its simple things like this that don't help getting a noise free design.

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2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Yup, had one for over a year. Too many droputs with DSD512/PCM768KHZ.

 

Jussi’s recommended UpBoard Gateway (I’ve linked a few times in this thread) is much better.

 

 

Hi Em2016

 

How is the UpSquared Gateway very different in terms of power to run HQPlayer than the NUC7i7DNKE? They seem very similar except the DNK has a higher burst speed if I am following this right.

 

Thanks John

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1 minute ago, jbparrish said:

 

Hi Em2016

 

How is the UpSquared Gateway very different in terms of power to run HQPlayer than the NUC7i7DNKE? They seem very similar except the DNK has a higher burst speed if I am following this right.

 

Thanks John

 

Hi John

 

I have the UpBoard Gateway, not UpSquared.

 

UpBoard is recommended by Jussi for HQP NAA duties and works fantastically well at PCM768kHz/DSD512x48.

 

As mentioned, very very low power consumption too. I can easily power it by a USB3.0 port (900mA).

 

The UpSquared Gateway can run HQPE but with limited filter options, due to it's limited CPU. But the NUC7i7DNHE is much more capable with running HQPE.

 

My NUC7i7DNHE (in fanless case) can run Roon Server and HQP Embedded with poly-sinc-lp-2s at DSD512. It can't do xtr-2s at DSD512. Maybe the newer NUC's can though.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi John

 

I have the UpBoard Gateway, not UpSquared.

 

UpBoard is recommended by Jussi for HQP NAA duties and works fantastically well at PCM768kHz/DSD512x48.

 

As mentioned, very very low power consumption too. I can easily power it by a USB3.0 port (900mA).

 

The UpSquared Gateway can run HQPE but with limited filter options, due to it's limited CPU. But the NUC7i7DNHE is much more capable with running HQPE.

 

My NUC7i7DNHE (in fanless case) can run Roon Server and HQP Embedded with poly-sinc-lp-2s at DSD512. It can't do xtr-2s at DSD512. Maybe the newer NUC's can though.

 

 

 

Thanks so much for the clarification. I was confusing use for NAA versus HQPE. Nice to hear that the DNHE can handle Roon and HQPE even if with limited filter range. I might go that direction. 

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19 hours ago, Iving said:

molex on mobo inc PCIe (I have 2 CPU-direct PCIe AICs - Intel Optane SSD 900P 280Gb AIC in CPU-direct slot PCIEX16_1 and Intel Converged Network Adapter X540-T2 in no-switch slot PCIEX16_3 )

I don't know about power usage/consumption for Optane PCIe AIC. It is a non-issue for me because I don't subscribe to low-power-religion/dogma in the PC/CPU. Optane PCIe AIC is one reason I don't have a NUC/AL (case size). Second reason is I hate USB/use RedNet/Dante and AL doesn't support Dante. Third reason is, whilst I'm very interested in Larry's experiments and views, I'm not sure that it's NUC per se that's accounting for your SQ advantages. Fourth reason is I am happy with what I've got and wouldn't upscale everything without some kind of paradigm shift.

I'm posting pictures so you can see the molex arrangement - and also that I manage mains noise from the front end via Isotek Titan with independent outlets feeding digits via small Topaz IT and analogue via larger Topaz IT. (And also downstream - I have a lot of Isotek in the whole system and find that through trial and error I can find an optimal permutation of isolation and shunts that gives me excellent results.)

 

1 - optane.JPG

2 - molex.JPG

3 - no nuc.JPG

4 - digits.JPG

5 - analogue.JPG

You have those fabulous Peter Snell designed speakers which I owned back in the eighties !j

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3 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

You have those fabulous Peter Snell designed speakers which I owned back in the eighties !j

🙂

Very astute!

They are Type A III.

I have maintained them myself. Drive units have been re-foamed and much else besides. In discussion with Peter Qvortrup he said they look "agricultural". True! They don't emit sound - they emit wind. Listening to music is somatic and visceral. I love them.

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16 hours ago, Em2016 said:

.

 

My NUC7i7DNHE (in fanless case) can run Roon Server and HQP Embedded with poly-sinc-lp-2s at DSD512. It can't do xtr-2s at DSD512. Maybe the newer NUC's can though.

 

 

 

Hi Em2016

 

I forgot to ask how is your DNHE performing? I mean how does it sound with HQPE? Is it better than other options in its price range and/or performance range?

 

Thanks

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6 hours ago, Iving said:

🙂

Very astute!

They are Type A III.

I have maintained them myself. Drive units have been re-foamed and much else besides. In discussion with Peter Qvortrup he said they look "agricultural". True! They don't emit sound - they emit wind. Listening to music is somatic and visceral. I love them.

Many, many years ago a friend of mine in the US owned a pair. I only had a brief listen so I don’t remember how they sounded but i do remember being completely bowled over by the sense of reality they imparted. One of the great designs

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39 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Many, many years ago a friend of mine in the US owned a pair. I only had a brief listen so I don’t remember how they sounded but i do remember being completely bowled over by the sense of reality they imparted. One of the great designs

According to Peter Q, "best 3-way speaker ever made". Whilst we mustn't take Peter too seriously, I believe him on this matter!

{Actually Type A III is 4-way with rear super-tweeter - I don't use them)

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