A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

MrUnderhill · January 10, 2019

2 hours ago, Windows X said:

I didn't read whole thread so I don't know but I'm sure you aren't very honest one toward me. Please stop your abusive behavior.

Regards,

Keetakawee

Hi,

I'm unsure of how a thread containing many people can be 'honest', and if you find some people's honesty upsetting then all you can do is call it out on a case by case basis. However, your discomfort CANNOT be allowed to cloud other peoples right to state their case freely as that may be the TRUTH.

This is a highly subjective area and ANY person who enters into a public forum when it is an area from which they make money will, rightly in my opinion, be viewed differently from an average Joe. I would like to see business owners asked to identify themselves and be marked as such, as happens on some other fora. Any such business owner MUST be very careful in what they choose to contribute. Mr Uptone is an is a good example of a person who tries to walk this line, and occasionally oversteps it but is quick to acknowledge or at least accept the admins judgement.

M

seeteeyou · January 10, 2019

UNSW-China partnership moves into manufacture of graphene cables
https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/unsw-china-partnership-moves-manufacture-graphene-cables

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=49&tab=comments#comment-645953

On 3/30/2017 at 11:10 AM, romaz said:

1) Conductor: This can range from tin to iron, brass, gold, copper, silver and graphene (the fastest electrical conductor known to man).

Graphene isn't listed but it is claimed to have a conductivity 100x of copper.

Both Alan and Eric on this thread should be owners of Cerious Technologies graphene cables, though I haven't read anything about powering NUC with this guy yet

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/apollo-world-s-first-graphene-battery-power-bank/

https://elecjet.com/collections/elecjet-products/products/apollopro-graphene-usb-c-pd-powerbank-9000

Quote

On the basis of the same capacity and the same charging current, the cell with graphene composite material has much smaller internal resistance and better conductivity.

Obviously there must be switching regulators inside the power bank, though it's the same deal with NUC. Its 20V output should be good for Dawson Canyon such as NUC7i7DNBE, while 14.5V should be a good idea for other models since they're only good for 19V ± 10%

https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P0000490WeYSAU/is-a-20v-maxoak-50ah-battery-ok-with-a-nuc

Iving · January 10, 2019

1 hour ago, MrUnderhill said:

Hi,

I'm unsure of how a thread containing many people can be 'honest', and if you find some people's honesty upsetting then all you can do is call it out on a case by case basis. However, your discomfort CANNOT be allowed to cloud other peoples right to state their case freely as that may be the TRUTH.

This is a highly subjective area and ANY person who enters into a public forum when it is an area from which they make money will, rightly in my opinion, be viewed differently from an average Joe. I would like to see business owners asked to identify themselves and be marked as such, as happens on some other fora. Any such business owner MUST be very careful in what they choose to contribute. Mr Uptone is an is a good example of a person who tries to walk this line, and occasionally oversteps it but is quick to acknowledge or at least accept the admins judgement.

M

God relax this isn't religion

austinpop · January 10, 2019

Let's move on...

auricgoldfinger · January 10, 2019

34 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Both Alan and Eric on this thread should be owners of Cerious Technologies graphene cables, though I haven't read anything about powering NUC with this guy yet

I have Synergistic Research power cords, HD grounding cables, and blue quantum fuses that utilize their UEF/graphene technology. I can confirm that graphene is great for audiophiles.

bobfa · January 10, 2019

Physical location of modified Ethernet switch and cabling question.

My system today is a Sonic Transporter i7DSP bridged to my system with 50ft of “Normal” cat 6 cable. I have one switch on order from TLS and I am waiting to order the UpTone switch. I am interested in where others put the switch and what cabling they use.

I can put the switch in my server “rack” in the basement next to the Roon Server. Then run to the stereo about 50ft.

I can put the switch in the stereo rack and use the standard Cat6 back to the basement. Then a “good” short Ethernet cable to the endpoint.

I have about 3 weeks till the TLS switch arrives so this not urgent.

FYI if in the basement the switch will be on my HDPLEX 200W. In the stereo it will be on an LPS-1.2.

Bob

seeteeyou · January 10, 2019

7 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

I have Synergistic Research power cords, HD grounding cables, and blue quantum fuses that utilize their UEF/graphene technology. I can confirm that graphene is great for audiophiles.

That's cool, many thanks for sharing your experiences with graphene.

These guys aren't regulated and that's why we could introduce our own linear regulators

7.4V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/graphene-5600mah-2s2p-hardcase-w-5mm-female-bullet-connector.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/graphene-6000mah-2s2p-hardcase-w-5mm-female-bullet-connector.html

11.1V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-5200mah-3s-15c-w-xt60.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-6000mah-3s-75c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

14.8V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-5000mah-4s-75c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-professional-10000mah-4s-15c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

18.5V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-4000mah-5s1p-65c.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-6000mah-5s1p-65c.html

22.2V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-6000mah-6s-75c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-professional-8000mah-6s-15c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

There were quite a few discussions about STUDER900 and that could be a good candidate for regulating the output of Turnigy Graphene

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=422&tab=comments#comment-894862

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55159-best-alternatives-lpsu-to-paul-hynes-sr7/?tab=comments#comment-913447

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/297610-low-noise-pre-amp-dac-power-supply-mje15034-tl072-regulator-based-studer-900-a.html#post5253455

On 1/2/2017 at 3:49 PM, austinpop said:

This should have come as no surprise as John Swenson had been telling us all along that the microRendu, as a low noise and low impedance device, benefits from a low noise and low impedance power supply. What I wasn't prepared to experience, however, was how a good low noise, low impedance power supply would also transform my upstream components including a simple NUC or Mac Mini even with the microRendu or sMS-200 in place (I own both of these units).

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=359&tab=comments#comment-860030

On 8/8/2018 at 7:29 PM, romaz said:

I have no scientific explanation for so many differences that I hear but as best as I have been able to figure out, good digital amounts to 3 things: (1) low noise, (2) low impedance, and (3) low latency. Maybe there are other characteristics I have left out but as I have attempted to improve my own digital setup, I have sought to address primarily these 3 things.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/297610-low-noise-pre-amp-dac-power-supply-mje15034-tl072-regulator-based-studer-900-a-2.html#post5302522

Quote

Reading further on the Web, I believe phantom stabilizers are traditionally used to power electret condenser microphones, and since mics are very sensitive to electrical noise , the PSUs powering them have to be very low noise PSUs.

Another thing I am guessing that could be responsible for the high SQ is a very low output impedance.

We could find quite a few sources of pre-built units as well as PCBs

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/linear-regulated-psu/module-alimentation-lineaire-regulee-mje15034g-faible-bruit-5v-a-24v-2a-p-11131.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/STUDER900-Regulator-linear-power-supply-DC12V-2-5A-30W-tube-Preamplifier-Audio-Decoder-Professional-Power-Adapter/32822732608.html

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=529559559576

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=529758280774

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=546056034957

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=555625624270

Usually a single board seemed to be limited to 2A or so, though DIY options could go quite a bit higher than that.

austinpop · January 11, 2019

8 hours ago, bobfa said:

Physical location of modified Ethernet switch and cabling question.

My system today is a Sonic Transporter i7DSP bridged to my system with 50ft of “Normal” cat 6 cable. I have one switch on order from TLS and I am waiting to order the UpTone switch. I am interested in where others put the switch and what cabling they use.

I can put the switch in my server “rack” in the basement next to the Roon Server. Then run to the stereo about 50ft.

I can put the switch in the stereo rack and use the standard Cat6 back to the basement. Then a “good” short Ethernet cable to the endpoint.

I have about 3 weeks till the TLS switch arrives so this not urgent.

FYI if in the basement the switch will be on my HDPLEX 200W. In the stereo it will be on an LPS-1.2.

Bob

Here is my approach to network hygiene. I don't claim this is the perfect solution, but its the best I've achieved so far in my system.

First some background: like many of you, I have a lot of wired Ethernet devices all over the house. I have decided that trying to eliminate SMPSes from every device with an Ethernet connection is impractical, a game of whack-a-mole. So I've decided on a more practical approach. I've tried to eliminate all SMPSes from the path from the ISP ingress into the house (in my case on CATV) all the way to my audio gear. The way I've done that is as follows:

ISP Ingress (CATV) > Broadband modem (HDPlex 100 LPS) > router (HDPlex 100 LPS) > long Cat 5e (in wall) to my audio room (see below)

|

v

Netgear GS108 switch (HDPlex 100 LPS) with JSGT shunt to ground

|

v

everything else in the house (many with SMPS supplies) via a tree of other switches and a WAP, including:

- my NAS (stock SMPS)

- my Dell AL/RAM Roon server with its stock SMPS ATX supply.

With the above, the theory (following @JohnSwenson's reasoning) is that the router is shielded from noise from "everything else in the house" - both "high impedance" noise (as John characterizes it) by the JSGT shunt on the Netgear switch, and "low impedance" noise by the magnetics on each port. If you go back and read John's posts on this subject, he found that while ALL switches SHOULD in theory isolate the endpoints from noise from the other ports, in PRACTICE, only some switches do. He found, purely through trial, that some switches have port magnetics that work, and this included the Netgear FS105/108 and GS105/108, plus a few others. This is why I use this brand of switch with a JSGT shunt wherever I need it.

Now in my audio room I have the following:

wall outlet from router (see above)

|

--------- |

| T | TLS Ethernet cable |

| L | <-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

| S |

| | SOtM dCBL-Cat7 cable

| O | <---------------------------------------------------------------------- Endpoint > rest of audio chain

| C |

| X |

| O | ------------ JSGT shunt to ground

---------

(LPS-1.2)

I feel like I am still not done. I want to put my NAS on an LPS and attach it to my router. I also want to upgrade to a bespoke fanless custom server, running off an LPS, and then move that into my audio room, attached to the TLS switch. At that point I will experiment with connecting the endpoint directly to the server via a bridged connection.

Finally, I want to compare the TLS OCXO with the SOtM sNH-10G, and in time, the Ether Regen. Maybe that will be a full review on the main AS page, called "My Quest for a New Switch." 😂

bobfa · January 11, 2019

22 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Here is my approach to network hygiene. I don't claim this is the perfect solution, but its the best I've achieved so far in my system.

Rajiv thank you for that diagram and philosophy. Your thoughts really help.

Right now my network system is similar. Cable-Modem ---> Orbi AC3000 Router --> TP-Link 24 port switch --> Sonic Transporter i7DSP server --> bridged network --> AL/NUC in music system with about 50ft of cable. Tomorrow I should have an HDPLEX 200LPS that will initially run the Sonic Transporter only as a first test. My ST has the music internally on 10TB spinning disks so not experimenting with my Qnap NAS yet.

I will insert the TLS switch into the system right before the AL/NUC and mount it in the Stereo system with an LPS-1.2. OR put it next to the server on the HDPLEX and try that.

I am not at this point considering running the rest of the core network on "fancy" power supplies. I am considering optical isolation and a managed switch upgrade when the UpTone audio switch comes out.

I am hoping that a single fiber optic link will give me the isolation I need between the music system and the rest of the network. I KNOW I have a long way to go. Just getting a TLS switch will be very interesting.

Now off to new server designs.

Blackmorec · January 11, 2019

Great segueway into something I’ve been wanting to post for a while. Network tuning.

I got into streaming entirely from scratch, admittedly without a deep computing background but with 40 years in high technology and hi-fi selection and tuning.

Initially I bought a single Naim Muso qb and used it to learn all about streaming and networking. I also spent hours on the internet with tutorials and webcasts learning as much as possible about setting up LANs and optimising wi-fi services. In addition I spent a lot of hours reading posts on CA, learning in the process who was worth reading and whose opinions I could trust (thanks guys!).

This all lead to me buying a digitally orientated system which comprised speakers, amplifiers and DAC and an Innuos Zenith MkII SE. With 30 hours under its belt the system was already sounding magical, hitting standards I’d very rarely heard. My network at the time comprised a Virgin Superhub3 modem/router, 15m of CAT6 ethernet cable into the SE. Further reading led me to add an AQVoxSwitch SE with its little wall wart PSU which AQVox claims is unbeatable in this application plus an AQVox Edge Ethernet cable Performance was magical. I felt very lucky to have such a nice system.

But being an audiophile I carried on reading and soon had a USB reclocking device plus PS ready to install. The unit had received universally good reviews on CA so I was looking forward to the cherry on top of the cake. Instead I got a few improvements but overall the magic was gone. 400 hours running in didn’t really see an improvement so I returned it to my dealer, who offered to send me a 2nd unit with different, simpler PS. I gratefully accepted but with very much the same result. As soon as the unit was installed, the magical flow and soundscape of the music was gone. I decided to test the unit vs. What I consider to be a SOTA USB cable, the Synergistic Reference Atmophere X Ref. The new cable won hands down, but I still had a few tests to perform. At one point I had the Synergistic Cable in line but left the USB reclocker’s power supply plugged in. Magic gone!

Unplug the little wall wart, magic back. I have a dedicated mains supply with highly optimised cable and this was obviously transmitting something from the PS to the rest of my system.

With that experience, I took a fresh look at the AQVox wall wart. My Zenith SE is powered by a Sean Jacobs designed 3 rail power supply, so I elected to try one of his DC2 power supplies on the AQVox.

The initial improvement was akin to comparing a suit coming out of a suitcase with one fresh from the dry cleaners. The whole thing sounded cleaner, crisper, better defined, with more timbre, more focus, more ‘life’. The unit continued to run in a frankly took about 3 months to reach its best, which comprised all the above plus an even greater sense of naturalness, life, PR&T and of course listener involvement and enjoyment. I was so impressed I traded it in.......for a DC3 with Mundorf caps. This upgrade was certainly the equal of the wallwart to DC2 upgrade, altghough I would claim it was quite a bit more extensive. It simply made everything better....frequency extremes, blackness, contrasts, image size and focus, air, detail, listener involvement, rhythm and impetus etc. I was stunned by the effect an upgrade of a single power supply to a network switch could have. If you have an AQVox then be in NO doubt that its performance can be drastically improved by a superior PSU of the DC2, DC3 ilk.

Of course this all got the audiophile brain working. If this improvement could bring so much, what about the rest of the network?. I set about trying a few alternatives to the 15m ethernet cable and found that a wi-fi connection using a TP Link RE650 extender brought a significant improvement in SQ, even when using the same 15m cable to attach it to the AQVox. Can’t explain why, I’m just reporting what I heard. Replacing that 15m cable with a Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref brought a further significant improvement. So now its Superhub over WiFi to RE650, SR ethernet to DC3 powered AQVox and AQVox Edge ethernet to the SE. Brilliant!

Of course Audiophile brain doesn’t stop there. It added a TPLink Archer 5400 3 band router so that the hifi now has its own dedicated 5GHz band. Significant improvement! Put the router on a small Atacama stand; minor but clearly heard improvement. Put a decent Meicord Ethernet cable between Superhub Modem and TPLink Archer, significant improvement. Threw out the 2 wall warts powering the modem and router and replaced them with a dual rail DC3. Major improvement.

Now the biggie. Removed the built-in SMPS from the RE650 Extender, made a custom vibration isolated wall mount, asked Sean Jacobs to wire a DC3 Mundorf directly to the RE650’s board and plugged the DC3 into my dedicated mains (the RE650 had been plugged into house mains). Put both DC3s on a dual level Atacama stand

Holee smoke. The system is now utterly mesmerising...the room entirely disappears and the musical energy levels are breathtaking. For example, 128Kbps Internet radio (Swiss Radio Classics) is incredibly good to listen to, highly entertaining and instantly involving.

In summary, each improvement in power supply, cabling, vibration isolation brought clear improvements that increased emotional response, listener engagement and the thrill of listening to music. Neglect your network and you can spend as much as you like on the rest of your system, you’ll never achieve optimum results. And the nice thing? It probably doesn’t cost more to optimise than a really good amplifier or server and it brings far greater rewards vs. a simple box upgrade.

tapatrick · January 11, 2019

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Great segueway into something I’ve been wanting to post for a while. Network tuning.

Great report @Blackmorec thanks for posting!

bobfa · January 11, 2019

On 1/6/2019 at 11:02 PM, bobfa said:

Today I had a second listener over to the house and we spent some time playing music! My friend had spent a couple of long sessions listening to the system before the recent changes. Today we only listened to the “new”. That is with the GAIA III stands and the temporary NUC running AL in RAM as a Roon Endpoint. I want to report the following:

1. When listening to some vocal tracks (Eva Cassidy and Lorena Mckinnett) he commented several times about the separation and the “space” around everything.

2. On a couple of classical pieces he remarked that he could hear the difference between the first chair and second chair violins. (I cannot hear that much detail but I did not sit in an orchestra like he has).

3. We took a break for lunch and a few other things. I asked if he wanted me to go back to the other Roon Endpoint and he said NO!....

Side note: a lot of eyes closed listening to the feeling of the music. He said he had never heard that kind of depth separation.

My NUC board will be here tomorrow and I am writing an article on how to install it into the AKASA case and my setup on AL. Later in the week I will have my HDPLEX power supply to put the NAS and the Sonic Transporter on. Waiting for Audio network switches... I think I am zeroing in on things.

***. I will have a third listener over later this week. He is even more critical and I am excited to hear his opinion.

Bob (Mr. Happy Dance)

Yesterday my friend and fellow music listener spend the afternoon switching cables, Roon endpoints, flipping LP’s, and just relaxing. The “goal” of the listening session was to decide how much different the AL/NUC was compared to the UltraRendu. In addition I wanted to evaluate the ISORegen in the system with the AL/NUC. I also threw in some LP listening to see if we had any observations from that.

So here are some “conclusions”:

1. The ISORegen works and helps whenever it is in place. This is staying in the system. (More observations below)***

2. I have ZERO regrets with the UltraRendu. There is just nothing wrong with the device. The system sounds great with it in.

3. Even with the simple goals we messed up and left a cable configuration wrong for part of the listening session.

4. The AL/NUC endpoint does not kill the UltraRendu but we both liked the sound from it better than with the UltraRendu.

Just a reminder my system is still in flux and my friend Rich has not heard the system with the IsoAcoustics stands on the speakers. I do not have a Audiophile network switch in the system yet. We used Roon and Tidal for all the digital playback. My server is a Sonic Transporter i7DSP located away from the system and in network bridge mode.

Airing the laundry out: I am having a USB crisis. My Lush2 cable has failed for some reason. I have to put a DVM on it and see that all the connections are being made. So when I am using the ISORegen I am using a basic Schiit USB cable between it an the Bridge under test.

The first part of the testing was A/B swap between the UltraRendu and the AL/NUC. This was done using a method I like where you listen to 30-40 seconds of a piece and then make the swap to listen again.
The second part of the testing was using the AL/NUC and swap the ISORegen in and out.
The third part of the testing was a more relaxing listen to some music on LP and then go back over to file based audio and listen there. This is the comfort test!

Stupid Mistakes: After we were done for the afternoon I discovered that a portion of the listening was done WITHOUT the ISORegen in place. We were listening to some LP’s and when we went back to file based music I forgot to check the USB. The last hour of listening on the AL/NUC was without the ISORegen. I did not discover this until this morning.

Rich brought over some of his Jazz collection and a playlist of classical music examples he is comfortable with. We also bounced around some of the female vocals I like and a little bit of electronic music. The LP listening was done to see if the file stuff was fatiguing us.

In the A/B testing of the UltraRendu and the AL/NUC there is a clear difference between the two. The AL/NUC improves the staging and I would say the precision of instruments, fingers on guitar strings, clarity of brushes on symbols, initial imact of the drum hit or kick are the highlights. When I am sitting off to the side listening I hear things in the music that I have not heard before. It turns my head on a regular basis.

During the IN/OUT testing of the ISORegen I have a Transparent Audio HP USB cable and a Schiit basic USB cable. The Transparent cable always connects to the DAC. So the swap is to move that cable between the ISORegen and the network bridge. All it took was one swap to tell us both the worth of the device. For me it is the LightRoom De-Haze filter that removes the look of atmospheric haze from photogaphs. Sometimes that filter is amazing and most of the time it just clears things up a bit.

Overall I am very happy with what we did yesterday. I am pleased with the results of my construction and setup of an AL/NUC endpoint in my system. I am leaving the AL/NUC and the ISORegen in the system for listening.

I am waiting on a TLS network switch and an HDPLEX power supply while thinking about how to improve the server side of things. I cannot say what the ultimate goal is. I assume that I will keep a split server and network bridge system. Is the OpticalRendu interesting? An AL/NUC server with optane memory is very interesting. I am slowing down and thinking.

The reality of time budget and dollar budget is here today. Today is back to the realities of work.... Today I am putting the UltraRendu in my office with the LPS-1.2 as the front end to my Multibit LYR3.

In the future! I have a test in mind where I put the UltraRendu in as the endpoint. Then I take the AL/NUC install an Optane SSD and make it the Roon Core on an HDPLEX power supply with the QNAP NAS as the music storage. Or do I have a certain NUC expert build me something even more interesting so that I can work.....

Fun with Stereo! And as Hans B. Says “Enjoy the Music”

Bob

austinpop · January 11, 2019

17 minutes ago, bobfa said:

Fun with Stereo! And as Hans B. Says “Enjoy the Music”

Bob

Or as I like to say...

It's an exciting time to be ~~a computer audiophile~~ an audiophile stylist!

yellowblue · January 11, 2019

4 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

This all lead to me buying a digitally orientated system which comprised speakers, amplifiers and DAC and an Innuos Zenith MkII SE.

Thanks for the nice report! Have you tried the new experimental feature in the new Zenith firmware? This would be another significant upgrade - even if it´s not completely stable. Another step could be to replace the fuse of the Zenith.

Blackmorec · January 11, 2019

Appreciate that. Good questions. Firstly one of the main things I appreciate about the Zenith is its solid engineering and reliability. Its easy to use and uncomplicated to set up. Suits me perfectly, so no I haven’t tested their prototype software....probably won’t either. Regarding fuses I’m still getting my head around the price of something designed primarily to break. 😊 I try to imagine myself going back to the dealer and complaining ; “it blew the second time I switched it on”.

lmitche · January 11, 2019

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

Or as I like to say...

It's an exciting time to be ~~a computer audiophile~~ an audiophile stylist!

Especially one with a well groomed library!

austinpop · January 11, 2019

6 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Especially one with a well groomed library!

You know it! Actually, may be the correct phrase, given the title of the thread, is:

It's an exciting time to be a massive novelist!

mourip · January 12, 2019

11 hours ago, bobfa said:

I am waiting on a TLS network switch and an HDPLEX power supply while thinking about how to improve the server side of things.

I received a new HDPlex 200W LPS this week. I have owned a bunch of them including selling a couple to upgrade to newer versions.

The newest one is WAY better than the previous versions. I am using it to power my NUC with 19v and using 7.5 volts to power my Mutec USB with it's stock SMPS removed and a 6v LT3045 reg in it's place.

Much darker background and a lot more subtle detail with corresponding solid localization of instruments...

User471 · January 12, 2019

22 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Great segueway into something I’ve been wanting to post for a while. Network tuning.

I got into streaming entirely from scratch, admittedly without a deep computing background but with 40 years in high technology and hi-fi selection and tuning.

Initially I bought a single Naim Muso qb and used it to learn all about streaming and networking. I also spent hours on the internet with tutorials and webcasts learning as much as possible about setting up LANs and optimising wi-fi services. In addition I spent a lot of hours reading posts on CA, learning in the process who was worth reading and whose opinions I could trust (thanks guys!).

This all lead to me buying a digitally orientated system which comprised speakers, amplifiers and DAC and an Innuos Zenith MkII SE. With 30 hours under its belt the system was already sounding magical, hitting standards I’d very rarely heard. My network at the time comprised a Virgin Superhub3 modem/router, 15m of CAT6 ethernet cable into the SE. Further reading led me to add an AQVoxSwitch SE with its little wall wart PSU which AQVox claims is unbeatable in this application plus an AQVox Edge Ethernet cable Performance was magical. I felt very lucky to have such a nice system.

But being an audiophile I carried on reading and soon had a USB reclocking device plus PS ready to install. The unit had received universally good reviews on CA so I was looking forward to the cherry on top of the cake. Instead I got a few improvements but overall the magic was gone. 400 hours running in didn’t really see an improvement so I returned it to my dealer, who offered to send me a 2nd unit with different, simpler PS. I gratefully accepted but with very much the same result. As soon as the unit was installed, the magical flow and soundscape of the music was gone. I decided to test the unit vs. What I consider to be a SOTA USB cable, the Synergistic Reference Atmophere X Ref. The new cable won hands down, but I still had a few tests to perform. At one point I had the Synergistic Cable in line but left the USB reclocker’s power supply plugged in. Magic gone!

Unplug the little wall wart, magic back. I have a dedicated mains supply with highly optimised cable and this was obviously transmitting something from the PS to the rest of my system.

With that experience, I took a fresh look at the AQVox wall wart. My Zenith SE is powered by a Sean Jacobs designed 3 rail power supply, so I elected to try one of his DC2 power supplies on the AQVox.

The initial improvement was akin to comparing a suit coming out of a suitcase with one fresh from the dry cleaners. The whole thing sounded cleaner, crisper, better defined, with more timbre, more focus, more ‘life’. The unit continued to run in a frankly took about 3 months to reach its best, which comprised all the above plus an even greater sense of naturalness, life, PR&T and of course listener involvement and enjoyment. I was so impressed I traded it in.......for a DC3 with Mundorf caps. This upgrade was certainly the equal of the wallwart to DC2 upgrade, altghough I would claim it was quite a bit more extensive. It simply made everything better....frequency extremes, blackness, contrasts, image size and focus, air, detail, listener involvement, rhythm and impetus etc. I was stunned by the effect an upgrade of a single power supply to a network switch could have. If you have an AQVox then be in NO doubt that its performance can be drastically improved by a superior PSU of the DC2, DC3 ilk.

Of course this all got the audiophile brain working. If this improvement could bring so much, what about the rest of the network?. I set about trying a few alternatives to the 15m ethernet cable and found that a wi-fi connection using a TP Link RE650 extender brought a significant improvement in SQ, even when using the same 15m cable to attach it to the AQVox. Can’t explain why, I’m just reporting what I heard. Replacing that 15m cable with a Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref brought a further significant improvement. So now its Superhub over WiFi to RE650, SR ethernet to DC3 powered AQVox and AQVox Edge ethernet to the SE. Brilliant!

Of course Audiophile brain doesn’t stop there. It added a TPLink Archer 5400 3 band router so that the hifi now has its own dedicated 5GHz band. Significant improvement! Put the router on a small Atacama stand; minor but clearly heard improvement. Put a decent Meicord Ethernet cable between Superhub Modem and TPLink Archer, significant improvement. Threw out the 2 wall warts powering the modem and router and replaced them with a dual rail DC3. Major improvement.

Now the biggie. Removed the built-in SMPS from the RE650 Extender, made a custom vibration isolated wall mount, asked Sean Jacobs to wire a DC3 Mundorf directly to the RE650’s board and plugged the DC3 into my dedicated mains (the RE650 had been plugged into house mains). Put both DC3s on a dual level Atacama stand

Holee smoke. The system is now utterly mesmerising...the room entirely disappears and the musical energy levels are breathtaking. For example, 128Kbps Internet radio (Swiss Radio Classics) is incredibly good to listen to, highly entertaining and instantly involving.

In summary, each improvement in power supply, cabling, vibration isolation brought clear improvements that increased emotional response, listener engagement and the thrill of listening to music. Neglect your network and you can spend as much as you like on the rest of your system, you’ll never achieve optimum results. And the nice thing? It probably doesn’t cost more to optimise than a really good amplifier or server and it brings far greater rewards vs. a simple box upgrade.

I live in an old rambling house which brings particular network and audio difficulties

I'm lucky enough to have fibre to the property, but it all goes downhill from there!

The 'Net enters in one room but all the hifi is in another some way away, so my only options for getting connectivity is either wireless or ethernet-over-mains. The house mains is old anyway and very noisy (I can tell when my wife is using her hair straighteners upstairs because my balanced transformer hums like a hive of angry robo bees!!)

I tried wireless first but my Netgear Orbi Mesh System uses 5GHz for all the backend stuff and connects to all the various phones, laptops etc using 5GHz too and I am unable to set up a dedicated wireless band for audio only, and the sound whilst perfectly serviceable is not as good as it might be with the audio sharing all that bandwidth (Paul Hynes LPS on the Orbi satellite helped a bit, but not much)

So I ended up with ethernet-over-mains to get into the room, copper to an HP ProCurve with iFi for the TV etc etc, then into a no-name FMC, MM fibre to a 2960 v2, thence copper to my endpoint. Server connects to the ProCurve too, so also upstream of the fibre link

Currently least bad option and certainly an improvement over wireless in my environment

Depending on the final announced costs I plan to swap the 2960 to the proximal end of the fibre segment and have one of the upcoming Sonore System Optique devices distally

Keeps me occupied !!!

mourip · January 12, 2019

1 hour ago, User471 said:

I live in an old rambling house which brings particular network and audio difficulties

I'm lucky enough to have fibre to the property, but it all goes downhill from there!

The 'Net enters in one room but all the hifi is in another some way away, so my only options for getting connectivity is either wireless or ethernet-over-mains. The house mains is old anyway and very noisy (I can tell when my wife is using her hair straighteners upstairs because my balanced transformer hums like a hive of angry robo bees!!)

I tried wireless first but my Netgear Orbi Mesh System uses 5GHz for all the backend stuff and connects to all the various phones, laptops etc using 5GHz too and I am unable to set up a dedicated wireless band for audio only, and the sound whilst perfectly serviceable is not as good as it might be with the audio sharing all that bandwidth (Paul Hynes LPS on the Orbi satellite helped a bit, but not much)

So I ended up with ethernet-over-mains to get into the room, copper to an HP ProCurve with iFi for the TV etc etc, then into a no-name FMC, MM fibre to a 2960 v2, thence copper to my endpoint. Server connects to the ProCurve too, so also upstream of the fibre link

Currently least bad option and certainly an improvement over wireless in my environment

Depending on the final announced costs I plan to swap the 2960 to the proximal end of the fibre segment and have one of the upcoming Sonore System Optique devices distally

Keeps me occupied !!!

If you already have coax into the room for your TV you might consider using MOCA adapters to pass ethernet into the room.

Iving · January 12, 2019

10 hours ago, mourip said:

I received a new HDPlex 200W LPS this week. I have owned a bunch of them including selling a couple to upgrade to newer versions.

The newest one is WAY better than the previous versions. I am using it to power my NUC with 19v and using 7.5 volts to power my Mutec USB with it's stock SMPS removed and a 6v LT3045 reg in it's place.

Much darker background and a lot more subtle detail with corresponding solid localization of instruments...

fwiw I have a "new" (as at Aug '18) HDPLEX 400W ATX LPSU.

I just asked Larry whether it sported LT3045s. He replied, "Only latest 200W LPSU has LT3045 for adjustable rails. 400W ATX LPSU does not have LT3045." When I asked about future 400Ws he replied, "I might eliminate 19V and 12V on the 400W ATX LPSU. Leave only two adjustable 2A rail using LT3045 on the 400W ATX LPSU."

Since at the moment I use only all 4 of the block PC connectors (mobo/mobo/PCIe/SATA), yet in the future may want (additional) DC for components with voltages as yet unknown, I guess this would suit me.

User471 · January 12, 2019

2 hours ago, mourip said:

If you already have coax into the room for your TV you might consider using MOCA adapters to pass ethernet into the room.

Unfortunately the only coax in is the dual feed to the Sky box

bobfa · January 12, 2019

On 1/10/2019 at 9:24 PM, austinpop said:

Here is my approach to network hygiene. I don't claim this is the perfect solution, but its the best I've achieved so far in my system.

I am still working on my network designs and I started playing with an idea last evening. I have a small TP-Link travel router that I have setup in client mode so it is an end-point on my network. I then hooked my UltraRend system to the travel router and now that system is on wireless. I have no sound quality report yet! I have been thinking of using alternative connection such as wireless or fiber optic connection to see if it changes the sound quality! I am wondering if it elimates the need for fancy switches,......

Blackmorec · January 12, 2019

2 hours ago, bobfa said:

I am still working on my network designs and I started playing with an idea last evening. I have a small TP-Link travel router that I have setup in client mode so it is an end-point on my network. I then hooked my UltraRend system to the travel router and now that system is on wireless. I have no sound quality report yet! I have been thinking of using alternative connection such as wireless or fiber optic connection to see if it changes the sound quality! I am wondering if it elimates the need for fancy switches,......

That’s not far off what I’m doing with an extender, the TPLink RE650. Can I get nice sound without a switch? Sure. But does a switch enhance SQ? Sure does. And does getting rid of all the router, switch and extender SMPSs bring anything? If you read my above post you know it’s does; big time.

Blackmorec · January 12, 2019

6 hours ago, User471 said:

I live in an old rambling house which brings particular network and audio difficulties

I'm lucky enough to have fibre to the property, but it all goes downhill from there!

The 'Net enters in one room but all the hifi is in another some way away, so my only options for getting connectivity is either wireless or ethernet-over-mains. The house mains is old anyway and very noisy (I can tell when my wife is using her hair straighteners upstairs because my balanced transformer hums like a hive of angry robo bees!!)

I tried wireless first but my Netgear Orbi Mesh System uses 5GHz for all the backend stuff and connects to all the various phones, laptops etc using 5GHz too and I am unable to set up a dedicated wireless band for audio only, and the sound whilst perfectly serviceable is not as good as it might be with the audio sharing all that bandwidth (Paul Hynes LPS on the Orbi satellite helped a bit, but not much)

So I ended up with ethernet-over-mains to get into the room, copper to an HP ProCurve with iFi for the TV etc etc, then into a no-name FMC, MM fibre to a 2960 v2, thence copper to my endpoint. Server connects to the ProCurve too, so also upstream of the fibre link

Currently least bad option and certainly an improvement over wireless in my environment

Depending on the final announced costs I plan to swap the 2960 to the proximal end of the fibre segment and have one of the upcoming Sonore System Optique devices distally

Keeps me occupied !!!

I tried wired ethernet, ethernet over mains, Netgear Orbi, a Google Home Wi-fi mesh and 2 range extenders, a Netgear then a TPLink.

The problem is, I was trying to network 4 classifications of device.....a bunch of fixed in place network connected devices; several mobile comms devices that move around the house; a high workload fixed streaming devices like a TV with Netflix and a hi-fi system that needs plenty of uninteruppted speed and relative silence in terms of noise.

Having tried everything listed above I found the best solution to be a very fast, relatively high powered 3 channel router, plus a number of extenders. That way I could put my static devices on a 2.4GHz band, which has good coverage and plenty of bandwidth, my mobile devices and hi-demand TV on a 5GHz band which has the speed and my hi-fi on its own dedicated 5GHz band. For the hi-fi I use a modified TPLInk RE650 that receives 5GHZ (2) and outputs along a short ethernet cable. It’s 2.4GHz band is switched off. You can use extenders on any of the bands and can use individual SSIDs on each extender to keep all your connections orderly.

Works brilliantly for all the different devices and I seem to get no conflicts or interuptions other than in storms when the line gets flakey.

One further tip. If you do this, come up with a really secure network password and use the same PW with 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,etc for each device and even for access to the online set-up. You soon remember the PW and its not hard to remember a few numbers. Makes a fairly complex set-up far easier to manage

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in