Jump to content
austinpop

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

The Computer Audiophile

Important and useful information about this thread

Posting guidelines

History and index of useful posts

 

Message added by The Computer Audiophile

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

34 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Both Alan and Eric on this thread should be owners of Cerious Technologies graphene cables, though I haven't read anything about powering NUC with this guy yet

 

I have Synergistic Research  power cords, HD grounding cables, and blue quantum fuses that utilize their UEF/graphene technology.  I can confirm that graphene is great for audiophiles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Physical location of modified Ethernet switch and cabling question.

 

My system today is a Sonic Transporter i7DSP bridged to my system with 50ft of “Normal” cat 6 cable.  I have one switch on order from TLS and I am waiting to order the UpTone switch. I am interested in where others put the switch and what cabling they use.

 

I can put the switch in my server “rack” in the basement next to the Roon Server.  Then run to the stereo about 50ft.  

I can put the switch in the stereo rack and use the standard Cat6 back to the basement.  Then a “good” short Ethernet cable to the endpoint.

 

I have about 3 weeks till the TLS switch arrives so this not urgent.

 

FYI if in the basement the switch will be on my HDPLEX 200W. In the stereo it will be on an LPS-1.2.

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

I have Synergistic Research  power cords, HD grounding cables, and blue quantum fuses that utilize their UEF/graphene technology.  I can confirm that graphene is great for audiophiles.

 

That's cool, many thanks for sharing your experiences with graphene.

 

These guys aren't regulated and that's why we could introduce our own linear regulators

 

7.4V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/graphene-5600mah-2s2p-hardcase-w-5mm-female-bullet-connector.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/graphene-6000mah-2s2p-hardcase-w-5mm-female-bullet-connector.html

 

11.1V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-5200mah-3s-15c-w-xt60.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-6000mah-3s-75c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

 

14.8V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-5000mah-4s-75c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-professional-10000mah-4s-15c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

 

18.5V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-4000mah-5s1p-65c.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-6000mah-5s1p-65c.html

 

22.2V

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-6000mah-6s-75c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-professional-8000mah-6s-15c-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

 

There were quite a few discussions about STUDER900 and that could be a good candidate for regulating the output of Turnigy Graphene

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=422&tab=comments#comment-894862

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55159-best-alternatives-lpsu-to-paul-hynes-sr7/?tab=comments#comment-913447

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/297610-low-noise-pre-amp-dac-power-supply-mje15034-tl072-regulator-based-studer-900-a.html#post5253455

 

On 1/2/2017 at 3:49 PM, austinpop said:

This should have come as no surprise as John Swenson had been telling us all along that the microRendu, as a low noise and low impedance device, benefits from a low noise and low impedance power supply. What I wasn't prepared to experience, however, was how a good low noise, low impedance power supply would also transform my upstream components including a simple NUC or Mac Mini even with the microRendu or sMS-200 in place (I own both of these units).

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=359&tab=comments#comment-860030

On 8/8/2018 at 7:29 PM, romaz said:

I have no scientific explanation for so many differences that I hear but as best as I have been able to figure out, good digital amounts to 3 things:  (1) low noise, (2) low impedance, and (3) low latency.  Maybe there are other characteristics I have left out but as I have attempted to improve my own digital setup, I have sought to address primarily these 3 things.

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/297610-low-noise-pre-amp-dac-power-supply-mje15034-tl072-regulator-based-studer-900-a-2.html#post5302522

Quote

Reading further on the Web, I believe phantom stabilizers are traditionally used to power electret condenser microphones, and since mics are very sensitive to electrical noise , the PSUs powering them have to be very low noise PSUs.

 

Another thing I am guessing that could be responsible for the high SQ is a very low output impedance.

 

We could find quite a few sources of pre-built units as well as PCBs

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/linear-regulated-psu/module-alimentation-lineaire-regulee-mje15034g-faible-bruit-5v-a-24v-2a-p-11131.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/STUDER900-Regulator-linear-power-supply-DC12V-2-5A-30W-tube-Preamplifier-Audio-Decoder-Professional-Power-Adapter/32822732608.html

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=529559559576

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=529758280774

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=546056034957

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=555625624270

 

Usually a single board seemed to be limited to 2A or so, though DIY options could go quite a bit higher than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Here is my approach to network hygiene. I don't claim this is the perfect solution, but its the best I've achieved so far in my system.

Rajiv thank you for that diagram and philosophy. Your thoughts really help.

 

 Right now my network system is similar. Cable-Modem ---> Orbi AC3000 Router --> TP-Link 24 port switch --> Sonic Transporter i7DSP server --> bridged network --> AL/NUC in music system with about 50ft of cable.  Tomorrow I should have an HDPLEX 200LPS that will initially run the Sonic Transporter only as a first test.  My ST has the music internally on 10TB spinning disks so not experimenting with my Qnap NAS yet.

 

I will insert the TLS switch into the system right before the AL/NUC and mount it in the Stereo system with an LPS-1.2.   OR put it next to the server on the HDPLEX and try that.  

 

I am not at this point considering running the rest of the core network on "fancy" power supplies.  I am considering optical isolation and a managed switch upgrade when the UpTone audio switch comes out.

 

I am hoping that a single fiber optic link will give me the isolation I need between the music system and the rest of the network. I KNOW I have a long way to go.  Just getting a TLS switch will be very interesting.  

 

Now off to new server designs.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Great segueway into something I’ve been wanting to post for a while. Network tuning. 

 

 

Great report @Blackmorec thanks for posting!


Tidal Streaming only: ATL DC Blocker > Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > Sine SA5 Cryo 5 power stripAqvox 8 port network switch NUC Roonserver (16gb Audiolinux Headless RAMboot, Akasa Fanless case) NUC Roon endpoint (4gb Audiolinux Headless RAMboot, Akasa Fanless case) > USPCB>ISO Regen>Battery powered> PS Audio Directstream Junior Dac > Decware SE84UFO3 Mono Amps > Omega Super Alnico Monitors.

NUCs powered by 12v Paul Hynes SR4s & switch powered by modded Teradak DC30W & LT3045 voltage regulators & PoE Quad Cat DC cables

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

 

This all lead to me buying a digitally orientated system which comprised speakers, amplifiers and DAC and an Innuos Zenith MkII SE.  

Thanks for the nice report! Have you tried the new experimental feature in the new Zenith firmware? This would be another significant upgrade - even if it´s not completely stable. Another step could be to replace the fuse of the Zenith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Appreciate that.  Good questions.  Firstly one of the main things I appreciate about the Zenith is its solid engineering and reliability. Its easy to use and uncomplicated to set up. Suits me perfectly, so no I haven’t tested their prototype software....probably won’t either.  Regarding fuses I’m still getting my head around the price of something designed primarily to break. 😊   I try to imagine myself going back to the dealer and complaining ; “it blew the second time I switched it on”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, bobfa said:

 

I am waiting on a TLS network switch and an HDPLEX power supply while thinking about how to improve the server side of things.

 

I received a new HDPlex 200W LPS this week. I have owned a bunch of them including selling a couple to upgrade to newer versions.

 

The newest one is WAY better than the previous versions. I am using it to power my NUC with 19v and using 7.5 volts to power my Mutec USB with it's stock SMPS removed and a 6v LT3045 reg in it's place.

 

Much darker background and a lot more subtle detail with corresponding solid localization of instruments...



"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Great segueway into something I’ve been wanting to post for a while. Network tuning. 

 

I got into streaming entirely from scratch, admittedly without a deep computing background but with 40 years in high technology and hi-fi selection and tuning.

 

Initially I bought a single Naim Muso qb and used it to learn all about streaming and networking. I also spent hours on the internet with tutorials and webcasts learning as much as possible about setting up LANs and optimising wi-fi services.  In addition I spent a lot of hours reading posts on CA, learning in the process who was worth reading and whose opinions I could trust (thanks guys!). 

 

This all lead to me buying a digitally orientated system which comprised speakers, amplifiers and DAC and an Innuos Zenith MkII SE.  With 30 hours under its belt the system was already sounding magical, hitting standards I’d very rarely heard.  My network at the time comprised a Virgin Superhub3 modem/router, 15m of CAT6 ethernet cable into the SE.  Further reading led me to add an AQVoxSwitch SE with its little wall wart PSU which AQVox claims is unbeatable in this application plus an AQVox Edge Ethernet cable  Performance was magical. I felt very lucky to have such a nice system. 

But being an audiophile I carried on reading and soon had a USB reclocking device plus PS ready to install. The unit had received universally good reviews on CA so I was looking forward to the cherry on top of the cake.  Instead I got a few improvements but overall the magic was gone. 400 hours running in didn’t really see an improvement so I returned it to my dealer, who offered to send me a 2nd unit with different, simpler PS. I gratefully accepted but with very much the same result. As soon as the unit was installed, the magical flow and soundscape of the music was gone.  I decided to test the unit vs. What I consider to be a SOTA USB cable, the Synergistic Reference Atmophere X Ref.  The new cable won hands down, but I still had a few tests to perform. At one point I had the Synergistic Cable in line but left the USB reclocker’s power supply plugged in. Magic gone!

Unplug the little wall wart, magic back.  I have a dedicated mains supply  with highly optimised cable and this was obviously transmitting something from the PS to the rest of my system. 

With that experience, I took a fresh look at the AQVox wall wart. My Zenith SE is powered by a Sean Jacobs designed 3 rail power supply, so I elected to try one of his DC2 power supplies on the AQVox. 

The initial improvement was akin to comparing a suit coming out of a suitcase with one fresh from the dry cleaners.  The whole thing sounded cleaner, crisper, better defined, with more timbre, more focus, more ‘life’.  The unit continued to run in a frankly took about 3 months to reach its best, which comprised all the above plus an even greater sense of naturalness, life, PR&T and of course listener involvement and enjoyment. I was so impressed I traded it in.......for a DC3 with Mundorf caps. This upgrade was certainly the equal of the wallwart to DC2 upgrade,  altghough I would claim it was quite a bit more extensive. It simply made everything better....frequency extremes, blackness, contrasts, image size and focus, air, detail, listener involvement, rhythm and impetus etc. I was stunned by the effect an upgrade of a single power supply to a network switch could have.  If you have an AQVox then be in NO doubt that its performance can be drastically improved by a superior PSU of the DC2, DC3 ilk. 

 

Of course this all got the audiophile brain working. If this improvement could bring so much, what about the rest of the network?. I set about trying a few alternatives to the 15m ethernet cable and found that a wi-fi connection using a TP Link RE650 extender brought a significant improvement in SQ, even when using the same 15m cable to attach it to the AQVox.  Can’t explain why, I’m just reporting what I heard.  Replacing that 15m cable with a Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref brought a further significant improvement.  So now its Superhub over WiFi to RE650, SR ethernet to DC3 powered AQVox and AQVox Edge ethernet to the SE. Brilliant!

 

Of course Audiophile brain doesn’t stop there. It added a TPLink Archer 5400 3 band router so that the hifi now has its own dedicated 5GHz band.  Significant improvement!  Put the router on a small Atacama stand; minor but clearly heard improvement. Put a decent Meicord Ethernet cable between Superhub Modem and TPLink Archer, significant improvement. Threw out the 2 wall warts powering the modem and router and replaced them with a dual rail DC3. Major improvement. 

Now the biggie. Removed the built-in SMPS from the RE650 Extender, made a custom vibration isolated wall mount,  asked Sean Jacobs to wire a DC3 Mundorf directly to the RE650’s board and plugged the DC3 into my dedicated mains (the RE650 had been plugged into house mains). Put both DC3s on a dual level Atacama stand 

Holee smoke. The system is now utterly mesmerising...the room entirely disappears and the musical energy levels are breathtaking. For example,  128Kbps Internet radio (Swiss Radio Classics) is incredibly good to listen to,  highly entertaining and instantly involving. 

In summary, each improvement in power supply, cabling, vibration isolation brought clear improvements that increased emotional response, listener engagement and the thrill of listening to music.  Neglect your network and you can spend as much as you like on the rest of your system, you’ll never achieve optimum results. And the nice thing?  It probably doesn’t cost more to optimise than a really good amplifier or server and it brings far greater rewards vs. a simple box upgrade. 

 

I live in an old rambling house which brings particular network and audio difficulties

 

I'm lucky enough to have fibre to the property, but it all goes downhill from there!

 

The 'Net enters in one room but all the hifi is in another some way away, so my only options for getting connectivity is either wireless or ethernet-over-mains. The house mains is old anyway and very noisy (I can tell when my wife is using her hair straighteners upstairs because my balanced transformer hums like a hive of angry robo bees!!)

 

I tried wireless first but my Netgear Orbi Mesh System uses 5GHz for all the backend stuff and connects to all the various phones, laptops etc using 5GHz too and I am unable to set up a dedicated wireless band for audio only, and the sound whilst perfectly serviceable is not as good as it might be with the audio sharing all that bandwidth (Paul Hynes LPS on the Orbi satellite helped a bit, but not much)

 

So I ended up with ethernet-over-mains to get into the room, copper to an HP ProCurve with iFi for the TV etc etc, then into a no-name FMC, MM fibre to a 2960 v2, thence copper to my endpoint. Server connects to the ProCurve too, so also upstream of the fibre link

 

Currently least bad option and certainly an improvement over wireless in my environment

 

Depending on the final announced costs I plan to swap the 2960 to the proximal end of the fibre segment and have one of the upcoming Sonore System Optique devices distally

 

Keeps me occupied !!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, User471 said:

 

I live in an old rambling house which brings particular network and audio difficulties

 

I'm lucky enough to have fibre to the property, but it all goes downhill from there!

 

The 'Net enters in one room but all the hifi is in another some way away, so my only options for getting connectivity is either wireless or ethernet-over-mains. The house mains is old anyway and very noisy (I can tell when my wife is using her hair straighteners upstairs because my balanced transformer hums like a hive of angry robo bees!!)

 

I tried wireless first but my Netgear Orbi Mesh System uses 5GHz for all the backend stuff and connects to all the various phones, laptops etc using 5GHz too and I am unable to set up a dedicated wireless band for audio only, and the sound whilst perfectly serviceable is not as good as it might be with the audio sharing all that bandwidth (Paul Hynes LPS on the Orbi satellite helped a bit, but not much)

 

So I ended up with ethernet-over-mains to get into the room, copper to an HP ProCurve with iFi for the TV etc etc, then into a no-name FMC, MM fibre to a 2960 v2, thence copper to my endpoint. Server connects to the ProCurve too, so also upstream of the fibre link

 

Currently least bad option and certainly an improvement over wireless in my environment

 

Depending on the final announced costs I plan to swap the 2960 to the proximal end of the fibre segment and have one of the upcoming Sonore System Optique devices distally

 

Keeps me occupied !!!

 

 

If you already have coax into the room for your TV you might consider using MOCA adapters to pass ethernet into the room.



"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mourip said:

 

I received a new HDPlex 200W LPS this week. I have owned a bunch of them including selling a couple to upgrade to newer versions.

 

The newest one is WAY better than the previous versions. I am using it to power my NUC with 19v and using 7.5 volts to power my Mutec USB with it's stock SMPS removed and a 6v LT3045 reg in it's place.

 

Much darker background and a lot more subtle detail with corresponding solid localization of instruments...

fwiw I have a "new" (as at Aug '18) HDPLEX 400W ATX LPSU.

I just asked Larry whether it sported LT3045s. He replied, "Only latest 200W LPSU has LT3045 for adjustable rails. 400W ATX LPSU does not have LT3045." When I asked about future 400Ws he replied, "I might eliminate 19V and 12V on the 400W ATX LPSU. Leave only two adjustable 2A rail using LT3045 on the 400W ATX LPSU."

Since at the moment I use only all 4 of the block PC connectors (mobo/mobo/PCIe/SATA), yet in the future may want (additional) DC for components with voltages as yet unknown, I guess this would suit me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/10/2019 at 9:24 PM, austinpop said:

Here is my approach to network hygiene. I don't claim this is the perfect solution, but its the best I've achieved so far in my system.

 

I am still working on my network designs and I started playing with an idea last evening.  I have a small TP-Link travel router that I have setup in client mode so it is an end-point on my network.  I then hooked my UltraRend system to the travel router and now that system is on wireless.  I have no sound quality report yet!  I have been thinking of using alternative connection such as wireless or fiber optic connection to see if it changes the sound quality!  I am wondering if it elimates the need for fancy switches,......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bobfa said:

I am still working on my network designs and I started playing with an idea last evening.  I have a small TP-Link travel router that I have setup in client mode so it is an end-point on my network.  I then hooked my UltraRend system to the travel router and now that system is on wireless.  I have no sound quality report yet!  I have been thinking of using alternative connection such as wireless or fiber optic connection to see if it changes the sound quality!  I am wondering if it elimates the need for fancy switches,......

That’s not far off what I’m doing with an extender, the TPLink RE650. Can I get nice sound without a switch? Sure. But does a switch enhance SQ? Sure does. And does getting rid of all the router, switch and extender SMPSs bring anything? If you read my above post you know it’s does; big time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, User471 said:

 

I live in an old rambling house which brings particular network and audio difficulties

 

I'm lucky enough to have fibre to the property, but it all goes downhill from there!

 

The 'Net enters in one room but all the hifi is in another some way away, so my only options for getting connectivity is either wireless or ethernet-over-mains. The house mains is old anyway and very noisy (I can tell when my wife is using her hair straighteners upstairs because my balanced transformer hums like a hive of angry robo bees!!)

 

I tried wireless first but my Netgear Orbi Mesh System uses 5GHz for all the backend stuff and connects to all the various phones, laptops etc using 5GHz too and I am unable to set up a dedicated wireless band for audio only, and the sound whilst perfectly serviceable is not as good as it might be with the audio sharing all that bandwidth (Paul Hynes LPS on the Orbi satellite helped a bit, but not much)

 

So I ended up with ethernet-over-mains to get into the room, copper to an HP ProCurve with iFi for the TV etc etc, then into a no-name FMC, MM fibre to a 2960 v2, thence copper to my endpoint. Server connects to the ProCurve too, so also upstream of the fibre link

 

Currently least bad option and certainly an improvement over wireless in my environment

 

Depending on the final announced costs I plan to swap the 2960 to the proximal end of the fibre segment and have one of the upcoming Sonore System Optique devices distally

 

Keeps me occupied !!!

 

I tried wired ethernet,  ethernet over mains,  Netgear Orbi, a Google Home Wi-fi mesh and 2 range extenders, a Netgear then a TPLink.

The problem is, I was trying to network 4 classifications of device.....a bunch of fixed in place network connected devices; several mobile comms devices that move around the house;  a high workload fixed streaming devices like a TV with Netflix and a hi-fi system that needs plenty of uninteruppted speed  and relative silence in terms of noise.

 

Having tried everything listed above I found the best solution to be a very fast, relatively high powered 3 channel router, plus a number of extenders. That way I could put my static devices on a 2.4GHz band, which has good coverage and plenty of bandwidth, my mobile devices and hi-demand TV on a 5GHz band which has the speed and my hi-fi on its own dedicated 5GHz band. For the hi-fi I use a modified TPLInk RE650 that receives 5GHZ (2)  and outputs along a short ethernet cable. It’s 2.4GHz band is switched off. You can use extenders on any of the bands and can use individual SSIDs on each extender to keep all your connections orderly. 

Works brilliantly for all the different devices and I seem to get no conflicts or interuptions other than in storms when the line gets flakey. 

 

One further tip. If you do this, come up with a really secure network password and use the same PW with 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,etc for each device and even for access to the online set-up.  You soon remember the PW and its not hard to remember a few numbers. Makes a fairly complex set-up far easier to manage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...