A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[mourip]

7 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

@ausstinpop

What does mean bridging a server and how To achieve this?

 

 

There is a helpful index at the top of every page of this very long thread. One of the links found there is for network bridging.

[mourip]

11 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks for that update Kevin!

 

You actually answered a question I meant to ask at the end of my last post but forgot:

• are you folks who've been making similar enhancements also finding yourself on a similar plateau?

 

I too was wondering why is was so quiet here 🙂

 

I would have to say that I have found the much more flat part of the curve. Increasingly the changes I make may produce a "different" sound but not necessarily a step up. Now the challenge is finding well recorded and personally enjoyable music. Thanks to Qobuz that is not too hard these days.

 

I have a JCAT Femto ethernet card on the way. Hope springs eternal...

[mourip]

11 hours ago, One and a half said:

Don’t worry , the JCAT won’t disappoint. For best results, power the board with a separate 5V , 2.5A psu , sinks the noise floor down a few notches.

Must try the speed limit to 100Mb/s & see what happens.

 

I have my Roon server working in bridged mode at 1G but am willing to try at 100mhz to see if it improves things. Does anyone know if AL will auto-negotiate on the endpoint PC if I change the server setting?

[mourip]

9 hours ago, Dev said:

With Ethernet interfaces, you can use ethtool utility in Linux. However, AL doesn't have this package by default. So you have to download it using pacman or yaourt

For example to set link speed to 100mbps on eno1 interface,

 

ethtool -s eno1 speed 100 duplex full autoneg off

 

 

 What would be the command to return the current link speed and duplex values? I looked at Network in the Status menu but those values are not displayed. Perhaps they could be? 

 

Thanks!

[mourip]

12 minutes ago, lmitche said:

ethtool -s eno1 speed 1000 duplex full autoneg on

 

Does that command set new values or return/display the current values? Thanks.

[mourip]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:18 AM, Marcin_gps said:

Hello Guys, 

 

Just a quick update: both JCAT NET Card FEMTO & JCAT USB Card FEMTO are back in stock and all pre-orders will ship on Monday. 

 

How did shipping go?

[mourip]

2 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

Some random thoughts from me:

1. MacMini with Audirvana sounds pretty good to begin with.
2. Roon is not the best sounding software…  I haven’t done any comparisons in a while, but I did like Audirvana better on MacMini than Roon when I tried a while ago. 
3. You did not specify which NUC you are using. Not all of them sound very good.
4. Some NUCs are very sensitive on noise coming from the network. Try unplugging the network cable while playing (a local file) and see if that makes a difference.
5. HDPlex 200W is not the best power supply. You can do a lot better. And the power supply makes a big difference. 
6. Have you changed your BIOS settings per some of the recommendations here? That gives a nice improvement on a NUC.
7. Have you tried Euphony as an all-in-one solution and eliminate the MacMini as a streamer?
8. Also, I would try to use Euphony / Stylus playing local files in RAM and compare to the MacMini/Audirvana. You probably need to use Roon, but that test would eliminate a bunch of variables. 

 

Can you describe your current system for us?

[mourip]

6 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

What is the interest of bridging if you use audio switch like sotm?

 

In my case simplicity, cost, and debatable benefit of one over the other. I got a very nice increase in SQ when I bridged my onboard NIC with my Intel PCIe NIC in my Roon Core server. I use FMCs to isolate my "clean-side" server from the LAN and connect my server directly to my NUC endpoint from my Intel card.

 

Also, using an audiophile switch still leaves you with the issue of how to arrange clean-side/dirty-side. How do you the isolate the clean-side audiophile switch for power and ground from the rest of the LAN ? FMCs to another dirty-side switch? Seems expensive and needlessly complex.

 

Hopefully this week I will receive a JCAT NIC which will replace my single port Intel card for bridging. Still cheaper than the other route.

 

Try both and let us know what you prefer 🙂

[mourip]

3 hours ago, lateboomer said:

Previously I read about another guy here recommended a mini PC running i7-8550U which is capable for headless AL. So I searched along the net and came across this mini PC called Partaker B18 which running i7-8750H 6 cores 12 threads CPU and has 2 NVMe slots. So I wonder could this PC suited very well to run Optane ssd for Euphony and at the same time can do upsampling to dsd256? 

 

That is a lot of power but I would be concerned about support from a relatively unknown overseas (depending on your location) company. Also it uses a fan and probably does not have a third-party fanless case available for it. Personally I am more concerned about fan electrical noise than storage type.

 

Having dealt before with companies with no tech support within my own country I am increasingly focused on companies with a local support/service presence. The one exception for me is Ghent Audio. They are great.

[mourip]

5 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

New game in town soon for psu for servers to replace hdplex

https://faradpowersupplies.com/shop/en/content/12-future-developments

 

Thanks. Always nice to hear of new options.

 

Do you have any association with Farad Power Supplies?

[mourip]

On 8/16/2019 at 9:51 AM, mourip said:

 

Thanks. Always nice to hear of new options.

 

Do you have any association with Farad Power Supplies?

 

On 8/16/2019 at 10:25 AM, Ricardo007 said:

No need to ask...

 

Not trying to offend but actually there is a reason to ask. You would be surprised how many times vendors with few posts have popped up here without revealing their industry affiliation and then recommended their own products. It has been a very slippery slope. If you had not mentioned HDPlex by name I probably would not have asked...

 

Let us know if you buy one of those Farad supplies and it is an improvement over the HDPlex. Sounds like a promising development.

 

[mourip]

24 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

I was told that the HDPlex 400 DC-ATX needs 10 A to run properly 

 

Where did you hear/read that? HDPlex recommends their own 200w LPS with it for audio applications and I can find nothing on their site that mentions needing 10A. The 12v and 19v outputs of the 200w unit are rated at 10A but that is their max, not a recommendation.

 

Thanks.

[mourip]

5 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Again, In my humble opinion, ILIM drop compensation is USELESS... I have only following statements from @Superdad
1. Output impedance for LPS 1.2 is a "FEW" mOhms
2. ILIM Circuit is a “easy way to cut the output impedance nearly in half”

So – what is the “few mOhms” in figures??? Should I consider it as 10mOhm with ILIM? And <20mOhm without ILIM? You need to add also 2 connectors and feeder cable resistance and easily can have additional 50-100mOhms impedance at the point of load - difference will be 50 vs 60mOhms or even 100 vs 110mOhms between ILIM/No ILIM options.  

 

Guidelines for this moderated thread are at the at the top of every page.

Lots of space on AS for every type of exploration. Consider starting another thread for technical arguments or else contacting folks by PM?

 

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A word from the OP:  We welcome your participation in this thread. Please note that discussion needs to stay focused on direct listening experiences with audio experiments discussed here. This is not an opinion thread. Most of what is discussed here does not have a readily available analytical explanation. Once we get into arguing about the why's, this thread is going to disintegrate.  If anyone comes in here, makes no contribution, and attacks people, I reserve the right as OP to delete their posts.

 

Further - this thread is about listening impressions. We do not:

• Demand proof
• Require a specific methodology
• Require measurements."

 

[mourip]

On 10/28/2019 at 11:43 AM, [email protected] said:

well, i decide to start new thread

 

Great. I will check it out. I have purchased several regulator boards from you in the past. Nice to have input from a member of the trade.

 

Great. I have previously purchased several regulator boards from your website and they made a nice difference. Glad to have input from a member of the trade.

[mourip]

4 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/Apacer/Embedded-Solutions/Memory-Data-Storage/Memory-Modules-Memory-Cards/Memory-Modules/_/N-9pk2p?P=1yzu785

 

@bodiebill. Thanks for the Mouser link. The US site lists the same choices now.

 

To All. I am interested in giving Apacer industrial memory a try. Given the large number of choices on Mouser I would appreciate any input for specs aside from the obvious: compatible type for system board, low voltage, and industrial. I have read through the posts here and this seems like a very good tweak but I would like my purchase to be a bit more informed since this memory costs a multiple of current consumer level prices.

 

I have two endpoints running Roon on AL: ASRock H87M-ITX (DDR3-1600) and a NUC 7i5 BNH (DDR4-2133)

 

Thanks for any help.

[mourip]

5 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

This ASRock EPC621D6I could be such an enticing Mini-ITX option with LGA 3647 and 6 SO-DIMM slots for ECC DDR4 RAM

 

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EPC621D6I

https://www.servethehome.com/asrock-rack-epc621d4i-2m-motherboard-review/asrock-rack-epc621d6i-block-diagram/

 

Ideal candidate for 10-core Xeon Silver? Though the VRM part ain't necessarily all that hot due to space constraints.

 

Looks like a very capable board. It might take a bit of care to find a fanless case for it due to the placement of the two groups of memory slots.

[mourip]

14 hours ago, sandyk said:

Just remember that thick, fairly inflexible cables can put a lot of strain on your typical D.C. sockets if they don't go in to them without a bend, and they should ideally be replaced by heavier duty type sockets such as XLR etc. if possible, and lockable types preferably.

 

I have found this type of mini XLR "aviation" connector to work well. I think that I got mine on eBay.

[mourip]

I would like to try some different memory in my Roon server. It is using an ASRock H87M-ITX board which uses DDR3 1600 un-buffered non-ECC UDIMM memory. I have read through as many posts here as possible and scoured the web for sources and information but have come up dry. It seems like folks like the Apacer high temp DDR4 memory but I have not been able to find a comparable DDR3 UDIMM.

 

So two questions. In searching for better sounding memory what parameters should I look for? The two that I have seen discussed are temperature and that 1R8 chip placement might be a positive factor. Any thing else?

 

The second question is: does anyone have a good source for DDR3 memory that would meet audio needs. I was able to get some Apacer DDR4 SODIMMs from a fellow ASer and this worked well in my NUC but I would still like to try some in my server and my other endpoint, both of which run the same ASRock system board.

 

Thanks for any help or suggestions!

[mourip]

50 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

https://www.soselectronic.com/articles/apacer/the-most-reliable-memory-for-industries-2177

 

75.B93ET.G000C
https://ipc2u.com/catalog/75_b93et_g000c

 

75.B93ET.G010C
https://ipc2u.com/catalog/75_b93et_g010c

 

Not that many choices for ASRock H87M-ITX are available to begin with, just send them an e-mail and find out what the lead time is.

 

Thanks a lot. I sent off for a quote. At some point I might just have to replace the board and start fresh with DDR4!

 

You are definitely the king of the Internet search 🙂

[mourip]

Given the current (no pun intended) thread here regarding power supplies I have a question... or more of an observation.

 

I have always believed in the importance of well constructed, stiff, over-built power supplies. When modifying or building analog preamps and amps I have always gone for overspec'd transformers, big caps, tight regulation and well thought out grounding. The payoff is usually better accuracy, a more realistic sound stage and especially improved dynamics.

 

For music servers and endpoints I am certainly a fan of linear supplies, good grounding technique, and isolation however once one has met the peak current requirements to avoid sag during high computational needs I really do not understand when someone talks about "improved dynamics" of the actual music. It seems to me that once a good digital stream is produced then the downstream analog components starting with the DACs analog output would determine music dynamics. I can certainly understand how an under-spec'd supply could cause audible issues but I just do not understand how, once the peak needs have been reached, that an over-spec'd supply would improve perceived music dynamics.

 

I am interested in how this might work. Perhaps the subjective experience of improved dynamics comes from finally meeting the actual needs of the server and not from surpassing its real needs?

 

Thanks!

[mourip]

10 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Interesting questions/observation. Not that I have an immediate answer, but in the discussions above it is not always clear to me when we are talking server or endpoint, or maybe better: high-lifting PC (such as HQPlayer) or Spartan audio streamer (such as AL, Euphony, NAA). I think this makes a big difference. I do not think there is one PS-related 'truth' for both.

 

Agreed. Certainly one needs the "right tool for the right job". I am mostly interested in how a power supply for a digital front end affects musical dynamics.

 

Thanks!

[mourip]

15 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

I bought myself a 4g  APACER ram and I like it also. 

I did got a nice sq boost : better bass , a little more detailed treeble and a little better soundstage.

For my system most significant improvement was the bass .

Could you give a link on where you bought it ?

Thank’s

 

I have Apacer DDR4 non-ECC in my NUC and like it but am still having trouble finding DDR3 non-ECC for my server.

 

[mourip]

3 hours ago, soares said:

Here is the link:
 

https://www.soselectronic.com/articles/apacer/the-most-reliable-memory-for-industries-2177

 

If you live in US, from the moment you place an order  it will take about 2 weeks to receive it! 

Thanks. I tried them previously. Unfortunately my server board takes DDR3 UDIMMs and they do not seem to be available. Lots of SODIMMs.

[mourip]

14 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Does your server accept this DDR3 1333 U-DIMM?

I believe that it does. Good call...

 

The price was a bit high on Mouser but I found a company selling "pulls" with a warranty for much less.

 

Thanks a lot!

[mourip]

3 hours ago, Iving said:

 

 

 

 

As mentioned recently on this thread (and in other places and at other times here at AS) isn't the Streacom F12C getting curiously short shrift? It accommodates all ATX mobos including extended. Admittedly you don't run copper pipes to the case, but the height of the F12C permits passive copper cooling in other ways and what's the difference? Yes my NOFAN IcePipe caters for a ceiling TDP but that ceiling is way, way over my needs and I imagine there would be other ways of going about things for devotees of "advanced" CPUs and for those who upsample heavily or use demanding software. There are other advantages to an F12C: full height PCIe without risers etc. So I can have a PCIe card for my ethernet-based (Dante/RedNet) system and also an Optane Add-in Card (280Gb but bigger ones are obtainable) with o/s and prn music on it - both PCIe Cards on CPU-direct lanes! (I use an Asus Z270-WS mobo.) Plus the Streacom (black) cases are very handsome and I imagine mine will be a smashing match for the SR7 I have on order when the latter arrives due March. There's plenty of room in my F12C for that chunky HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX Converter! I have always been interested in what folks have had to say about NUCs and have followed this thread fairly closely - ever wondering what might explain NUC SQ - but never been really convinced except thinking about keeping electronic turbulence to a minimum in a physical system (mobo) of smaller dimensions. But if that were a sole explanation our smartphones would sound better than our PCs and they don't. Anyway - it's great to see Nenon pioneering DIY server-building at this time (and I appreciate very much the pointers he gave me via PM regards building DC cables for my pending SR7). I wouldn't gloat - but it is of some small satisfaction that things are turning circle somewhat should we like-minded audiophiles start to re-consider "much bigger and powerful components" ... in which case (sic) ... Streacom F12C if you can get one!

 

I have used a Streacom FC5 for several years as my server. It has passive cooling which does limit the CPU a bit and only one full size horizontal PCI slot. However it is very roomy, and as a server can still work very well since you will probably just use the slot for a JCAT FEMTO card or an optical NIC and not need USB. I have used it as standalone with USB out, with an optical NIC as a server, and now with a bridged FEMTO card as a ROON Core server. It has "served" me well and continues to do so.

 

I bought it from Quuietpc.com and found them to be very good to work with.